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Philbin and the "PASS" he is getting

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by 2socks, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. Hurricane

    Hurricane Guest

    I'll bite.

    If we lose out, I think it would be in our best interest to at least see if a guy like Cowher or Gruden would be interested in leaving the booth.
     
  2. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    So we shouldn't discuss whether or not he is doing a good job?
     
    shula_guy and Hurricane like this.
  3. Hurricane

    Hurricane Guest

    No, this is a forum. No discussing anything. :pointlol:
     
  4. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    The fact that the Pats called the timeout suggests that they either were fooled or Belichick was concerned that the players might have been fooled. Although not critical at that time in that game, doing something that causes the other team to call a timeout has some value in itself.

    The point of the idea was to make the Pats have to worry about the kick going in either direction. I don't know that there is any evidence that they didn't. I would have been pretty surprised if Fields actually kicked it instead of Carpenter, but if I was on the field at a Patriot I would not have been willing to completely dismiss the idea. Onside kicks are rarely successful when they are expected. Doing something that creates some element of surprise or doubt in the other team improves the chances of success, even if just incrementally. Since the inside guy on the KO never (or almost never) recovers the onside kick, using that spot for the punter does not meaningfully reduce the prospects for success IMO.
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I didn't say they should scrap him after one year. I said it's a discussion worth having what it might mean if he doesn't really achieve any improvement off last year's team. I didn't say what the conclusion from that is.

    Personally, I don't even want to say what the conclusion I would draw from it is because several people on here use any excuse to begin trolling and attacking anyone who brings the subject up, no matter how pertinent it is.

    EDIT: What I mean by the last sentence is I view this phenomenon within the context of roster insufficiency which brings up the job a certain He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named has been doing as General Manager of the team, but I can't say that without being attacked and having the thread de-railed by some very vocal trolls that constitute an inextricably loud minority.
     
    Paul 13 likes this.
  6. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    I think you upgrade every position if you have an opportunity to do so, and that includes HC. But it's my understanding that neither Cowher nor Gruden were interested last year and I'm not sure what would make them more interested this year.
     
    Hurricane likes this.
  7. Hurricane

    Hurricane Guest

    Yes, the Patriots calling a timeout has a value, but it's not like they were stopping the clock. They saw two potential kickers and wanted to get all of the players on-board, incase they hadn't noticed. They knew exactly what was coming. Like you, their ST coordinator probably told them "I'll be shocked if #2 kicks it, but be ready".

    If you thought that that gave us the highest chance to produce a recovery, then so be it. I think either going for a high bounce or kicking it off one of their players yielded a higher chance. I know of no statistics or research done to unveil onside kick percentage by kick type, so just go with your gut.

    One last note. I think it would've been more effective had both guys run at the same time, in opposite directions, with one just stopping short, allowing the other to kick. I still would prefer the classic onside kick, but I'm just saying.
     
  8. Patssuck

    Patssuck Well-Known Member

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    I am joking. This job isn't like the 49ers job, where they had a good pool of talent to begin with. The team is rebuilding.
     
  9. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    I do think it's fair to question some of the things that Philbn has done this year. One being Reggie Bush and how he has been positioned in this offense. I mean one of the most gut wrenching quotes from Philbin was this past week... something akin to "we need to do a better job of getting Reggie the ball in space"... Is he just now realizing this? It's week 14.

    I think the OP went about starting the thread incorrectly by bringing up Ireland and Sparano discussions of them being fired... the natural progression in that context is then for the thread to evolve itself into why not fire Philbin too? Rational discussion can be hard to come by.
     
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    See my edit. I'm not actually concluding anything bad about Philbin (though I'm not concluding much good on him yet, either). I view the problem within a certain context, a context a majority of posters here seem to share, but if I talk about it then the trolls will come a'marchin' one-by-one.
     
    Paul 13 likes this.
  11. Hiruma78

    Hiruma78 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    and I thought the other board was the pessimist one :pointlol: (just a joke, I don't wanna troll or anything like that)

    ps-I forgot about that rediskins play, hilarious!
     
  12. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well I for one enjoy the pages of discussion about what you said about Haywood Jablome back in the 2001 draft. :lol:
     
  13. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Entirely depends on the agreed upon definition of "starting off on the right foot".

    Personally, I don't care so much about the wins and losses at the moment. I already see a big difference between Sparano & Philbin. Sparano routinely seemed in over his head and often out coached, out chess-matched. Poor manager of the clock. Made inadequate adjustments (which also falls into the "out-coached" category). Played timid and seemed to transfer that mentality onto the team. Lacked any killer instinct. Seemed to prefer to treat his guys as responsible grown men rather than being a manager in charge of players. Poor end of half coaching ability. Poor 4th quarter coaching ability. Not enough attention to detail & basics. Didn't know how to put his players in the best positions to succeed, rather instead tried to fit players to the position. Showed a lack of player development. I really haven't seen any of these concerns from Philbin.
     
    GMJohnson likes this.
  14. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Really overachieved? I totally disagree.

    That isn't my whole agenda. I honestly have no idea what your point is.
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Boy did he turn out to suck. (zzzzing! be here all week...don't forget to tip your waitress)
     
  16. Hurricane

    Hurricane Guest

    Sure, wins and losses don't matter for a rebuilding team. Cheers.

    I don't agree with the whole player progression thing. Tannehill has an 8:12 TD:INT and is going backwards as the season progresses (3:6 in the last 5). Anyone watching will agree that Ryan and our receivers are simply not on the same page. That's a coaching issue. Where is Egnew?

    Personnel-wise, why does Reggie magically get benched? Why does Thomas get taken out as soon as he gets going? Why weren't Wake and Odrick on the field at the end of the Patriots game? Why aren't we utilizing TE's in the passing game (21 Tight Ends have more Rec Yds than all of the Rec Yds from TEs on our roster combined--->Jason Witten has twice the amount)?

    I also just discussed the poor 4th quarter management against the Pats (wasting time before kicking the FG to bring us within 7, the onside kick, taking our DEs out).

    I totally agree with your premise, but you and I disagree with our team, relative to last year's team. Recall, we were hot to close out last year.
     
  17. Hiruma78

    Hiruma78 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    yes, and I understand the reason, I mean....we are losing for a long period of time! I share the feeling, it is just that I am kind of surprised at the "sudden"mood swing... It seemed to me that just a few ago there was much more optimism in the forum, but maybe it is just that I wasn't reading the forum as musch as usual and that's why I perceived like sudden (I don't think losing with 49ers and Patriots the way we did is a big indictment)

    anyway, as I said, I think 2 years (this included) are almost always guaranteed and if for the end of next year we don't see some clear improvement, then Philbin will have a problem
     
  18. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I don't think people understand, just how close we are to being really, really good.
     
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  19. gamblerx

    gamblerx New Member

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    I'm not going to be like those silly radio guys that influence the mass. Philbin already showed potential of being an NFL head coach. Produced 5 wins and several close losses with a rag-tag team that consists a rookie QB, a bad WR corp, and an undersized starting RB...
     
  20. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Really? I don't see it.
     
  21. Tepop84

    Tepop84 Banned

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    A lot of people understand how close they are to being good, and that is not close at all.
     
  22. Hurricane

    Hurricane Guest

    Squint and look real close.

    [​IMG]
     
  23. gamblerx

    gamblerx New Member

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    I see as this team being mediocre. Not really bad. They're one or two level below from being a "good" team. They just need good hits on some on the positions like DE and WR.
     
  24. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    And who the hell is going to draft those players?
     
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  25. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    If you look at the lack of improvement from Philbin, whereas something like 75% of decent coaches manage to coax improvement out of their teams in the first year, and you're not ready to come to the conclusion that he's a bad coach, then I think you have to draw the conclusion that the roster is worse than a year ago.

    ...which it is. You trade away Vontae Davis and Brandon Marshall, and you don't replace them. Your roster is worse than a year ago.

    If that's the case Philbin can actually be achieving improvement but that improvement is only keeping them at the same overall level of success because he's got a General Manager actively destroying the talent base of the team.
     
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  26. Hurricane

    Hurricane Guest

    I think the better question is "what is a level?" :tongue2:
     
  27. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You proved my point.
     
  28. Tepop84

    Tepop84 Banned

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    Ireland loves drafting DE. 5 in his 5 years, and 4 of them in the first 3 rounds!
     
  29. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    What point?
     
  30. gamblerx

    gamblerx New Member

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    I think the better question when is Ireland leaving? lol
     
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  31. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Case in point #1 why Ireland should have been fired with Sparano. I said a long time before the season started placing blame in the event of a poor season would be difficult. Maybe Philbin does deserve more blame. Who knows? But Ireland has been around for too long and there just aren't enough talented players on this roster to justify his continued state of having a job with this franchise.
     
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  32. Hurricane

    Hurricane Guest

    I don't think that anyone would disagree with that. Good post.

    Everyone keeps saying that we're building. Well, as long as Ireland is here, we'll never be rebuilding. It will always be resetting.

    To properly rebuild, we need to clean house and work from the top down.
     
    MonstBlitz likes this.
  33. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    ?? Really? So the 6-10 Niners weren't close when they turned around and went 13-3 with essentially the same nucleus? Their transition was easier considering they kept the same defensive scheme and their entire offense fit well into its new one.
     
  34. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    Have you done a quantitative analysis of trolls on this site compared to others? The data is out there for everyone to see, and I don't think you can call out the trolls on this board until you can show your work.
     
  35. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    It made about as much sense as most of the posts in this thread.

    This is about the most ridiculous thread I have seen recently - just based on the premise. The season is not over. One doesn't evaluate players until after games. One really cannot evaluate the team until after the season. And leaders don't know how the team really plays until crunch time has come and gone. These next two weeks are the crunch. If the team lays down and starts packing their bags - then the coaches will have an idea how many real players they don't have. If the team rallies, and plays as they are supposed to, then the coaches will have an idea of who to keep. We all knew going into this year that this was going to be a real experiment - all the smoke being pumped up our collective posteriors taken for what it really was - and that the combination of rookies at QB and HC could fall flat on it's face. If someone expected a SuperBowl from this conglomeration of players - you must be on some really good pain meds.

    Further - I don't know Hurricane from Adam's House Cat. We know what he wrote - but I have seen other players play games on Dolphins message boards before, and stir up a huge fracas with sheerest nonsense. I would like to see some back up for the Packers' players who hated Philbin before I began planning for his enforced retirement from Dolphins football.
     
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  36. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    ^^ 1 down. 30 to go. ​

















    :p
     
  37. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Plus, outside of Long being injury plagued I don't think we have anyone on the downside of their career. They're either in their prime or still ascending toward it. Not every team can brag about that. So we should be better next year by the mere fact of keeping everyone together. Then when you add in couple contributing FAs & draft picks <like you said> paired with an extra year of good coaching and scheme familiarity, double digit wins should be within the realm of reason.
     
  38. Hurricane

    Hurricane Guest

    It was sarcasm. I explained that below the story, but a mod removed that portion of the post because I also "offended" someone else by calling them a pinhead.

    I don't mean to bring this out into the public, but it keeps coming up.
     
  39. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    I just don't see that happening. Ireland's last 2 drafts haven't been very good so why trust him? Outside of Pouncey his last 2 drafts have been awful.
     
  40. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Some of that is because the QB is competent at running the offense between snaps.

    Confusion over plays, calls, getting lined up properly and before the play clock expires... All things Tanny does better as a rookie than Henne did in his entire time here.

    That's about 50% of the timeouts Sparano took.

    The other 50% was him not knowing what to do. Same look you see on his face now on the NY sidelines after Sanchez INTs.
     
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