If we currently had quarterback play comparable to the 97 QB rating Matt Moore posted during that period, you can bet our record would be somewhere along the lines of the .667 winning percentage we had. There isn't any "snookering" going on. I'm as critical of this team as anyone. I'm not going to be "snookered" into anything.
I can see where you might be led to that conclusion, Chris, but Sparano was Parcells' guy above all. The evidence seems clear IMO. See below: It's difficult for me to believe Ross would want to continue employing Ireland to run a team headed by a coach Jeff didn't support. That would be the logical & appropriate time to sever ties, which didn't happen, which tells me Ireland was most likely on board with Philbin. Ireland obviously had more input with ownership regarding Phiblin than he did with Sparano for the simple fact he didn't have Parcells over him this time around. This is an interesting excerpt from the Palm Beach Post: While Parcells was here, what he said went. Rarely does a man have this much power and while his GM has so little.
Why not? One more loss and the Dolphins will have established a new record for the most consecutive non-winning seasons in franchise history. Two more losses and that's four consecutive losing seasons. That won't sit well with the fan base. It shouldn't sit well with Stephen Ross, but he should maintain the status quo? At what point does enough become enough? Five consecutive losing seasons? Six?
Would you say then that bad players produce losing seasons? I mean, c'mon, at some point he's going to be praised for turning this team around, or he's going to be held accountable for not doing so. The track record so far is indicative of the latter. I'm not so sure you can say it's for the former if the team's regressed every season since 2008.
When you become certain that Jeff Ireland's player acquisitions, and not those of possibly someone else (Parcells), are responsible for the team's inadequate performance. IMO, with the level of knowledge anyone here has of the inner workings of the team over the last five years, which is minimal, that period begins when Ryan Tannehill's performance can be judged as anything but that of a typical rookie QB.
That's true it does have less impact... but if fans are looking for a 1st rounder like many were, it wasn't gonna happen.... especially when Marshall's cost being so high--- $9.3M 2012; $9.1M 2013-14. That's essentially like paying him the franchise tag for 3 straight years. Plus we didn't have much leverage. She McClellin at the #19 draft spot only cost Chicago $8 million..... nearly half of what he would've cost in 2010. It's not like we got fleeced. No one sent a 1st or pair of 2nds to Pitt for Wallace despite being a $2.74 million RFA. If anything, a giddy new owner looking for excitement overpaid for Marshall in 2010, and our czar in charge, Parcells, allowed it. But we're past that; hopefully our owner has learned from his mistake and Ireland has learned from Parcells'.
Pretty sure they fired the coaching staff responsible for those records that your pinning primarily on the GM.....who even does that ? ( you left out the good year by the way, lets not skew the numbers to make points ... we made a huge turn around thanks to a quick roster turnover including a solid draft and Great free agent signings ) I'd have to imagine if we were a winning franchise, GM is the last person you'd assigned the credit to. Trying to pile as much blame on one person, i.e. scapegoat, is not a motion for progress.
well if that's your logic, Sparano should've never been fired. when he got good QB play, he won. the rest of the time, which is where he compiled a losing record, the QB play really wasn't that good.
Well if you count that year (2011), then you realize there was a 6-3 stretch in there in which the QB Ireland got (Matt Moore) played a lot better and did a whole lot more winning than the one Parcells may have been responsible for (Henne).
There had to be a scapegoat for the fans at that point. The question is, though, why wasn't the scapegoat comprised of a package of both Sparano and Ireland?
RGIII is doing well now, but look at Cam Newton, who took a huge step back this year. I expect the same from RGIII next year, and the more tape teams have on him the less the "trickeration" offense will work.
You also realize then that Chad Henne had a 7-3 stretch in 2009 from week 4 to week 14 (the bye week is included in there). Both that season and Matt Moore's season still ended up as losing seasons.
Why do we even discuss Marshall? He has 1181 yards and 8 TD receptions with four games to go, and is averaging 98 yards a game. The guy is a stud. He is having a career year. And we let him go for two third rounders. How would Tannehill be doing if he had Marshall to target? Whichever of Ireland or Philbin put that trade together did it in a catatonic moment. Period. What GM or coach lets the only serious receiving threat a team has go without replacing him? Who was going to fill his shoes? A rookie? Gates? They cut him. What were they thinking? Rant over. I feel much better now. Thank you.
oh i think the majority of dolphins fans feel that should have been the case, me included, the real question is how did Ireland convince Ross to retain him? if he told the owner coaching is the problem and if you upgrade the man on the sidelines then the talent i've brought and will continue to add to the team will be developed properly and flourish, then Ross took that into consideration and probably figured better coach = better record, which is probably why he publicly stated before the season that he expected this team to make the playoffs. i think he thought the team would build off that 6-3 finish and we were talented enough to the next step and make a playoff push. unfortunately he was dead wrong because we're about to finish up our 4th straight losing season.
I think there's an instinctual reaction to believe our secondary is a problem with the knowledge it's w/o both Vontae & Marshall,..... but the reality is our coverage did a great job against Brady limiting him to 1 TD, a terrible 5.95 yard avg, and his season's lowest QBR at 74.8 They strongly put us in position to actually beat NE. Even with a few games worth of inconsistencies, the secondary is allowing a respectable 82.3 passer rating and is a couple good games away from ranking 3rd in passing TDs allowed. However, I agree that our biggest problem is not capitalizing on turnover/INT opportunities, which could take a season for Coyle to turn around if it's something that has more to do with a previous lack proper discipline & developing in that aspect of the game.
No, I would not say that. There's a general correlation between the two, but it's not that strong to the point where a mediocre team can give you an obvious answer without looking at the roster. Quarterbacking is by far and away the biggest issue with that. If the Dolphins had average quarterback play from 2008-present, or for any season-spanning stretch, Jeff Ireland would be regarded as a high quality GM. Jeff Ireland deserves culpability for Chad Henne not panning out, and not every GM gets an opportunity to draft a second quarterback, but his job should be tied to that at this point. If Ryan Tannehill doesn't look like he's going to be the guy by the end of next year, Ireland should be fired. It would neither be too soon, or too late.
Brandon Marshall was an *******, would have certainly(and probably still will) get in serious trouble with the league, doesn't fit the style of offense particularly well, and was a serious risk to try to force himself out of town. If we kept Brandon Marshall there was a very good chance we would have had to get rid of him at a later date for less than what was received this off-season.
I wanted them both gone since 2010. One went on a trip to the west coast with Ross and coincidentally is still here.
Granted. I'd still have preferred the 98 yards per game, and he's still in Chicago. It was OK to let him go for fear of what the league might do at some indeterminate future time for something he hasn't done yet? Doesn't seem logical, and reality has imposed itself.
How do we know this. Ireland could have been Parcells Whipping boy. No one can say for sure what Ireland was on board with unless Ireland said the words himself
I saw more than just potential with Davis. Trading him made the corner spot a little thin even when Marshall was healthy. Once he was lost for the season, anyone saying we still couldn't have been better had we kept Davis, has lost touch with reality, or is just lying to themselves, IMO.
We would probably be better, but not record wise. He wouldn't have had that big of an impact. He was most likely going to walk at the end of the season anyway, so a 2nd at the time was a good move.
Pretty much the next dumb thing he does he's guaranteed a multi-game suspension. He couldn't stop doing dumb **** in Denver, even with Cutler, and he was doing dumb **** here. He's in a mutually abusive relationship with his wive, and he for all intents and purposes seems to seek them out. He's got psychological issues that don't at all appear to be under enough control to trust him.
We'd have been better, but not close to the difference between keeping him and a 2nd round pick. Even beyond all this, Kevin Coyle has earned the benefit of the doubt. Hell, before he's done the job he has with the Dolphins defensive backfield this year, he deserved it. The guy is basically a specialist in underachieving, ****head defensive backs, and he almost certainly had a role to play in Davis' departure.
WADR, those numbers are little skewed. a) We cant ignore the role our initial failed coaching staff played in improperly developing players. It's a fact. Players enter the NFL in need of development, most of which need a significant amount to reach their full NFL potential. b) We can't ignore the fact that not all our draft picks from '08 will fit into a different defensive scheme and drastically different offensive scheme, and the fact we've had 3 different OCs & DCs in 5 years. c) Also have to consider the players who are either starting or contributing to other teams. Henne- replaced 1st rounder Gabbert in Jax (and not just b/c of his injury). Langford- starting for the Rams, albeit out of position at 4-3 DT. Donald Thomas- has started for NE this year. (not bad for a 6th rounder that we failed to develop) Hilliard- starting FB for Jets. (not bad for a 6th rounder) Parmele- started 2 games in MJD's absence (not bad for a 6th rounder) Gates- contributing in NY and still has a future Now that we brought Philbin from GB and have a defensive coordinator capable of developing players, perhaps we'll see our retention rate increase to GB'esque numbers, as well as see more impact players develop like Reshad Jones. On top of that, it's irrational to blame the current regime under Ireland for the previous regime's mistakes under Parcells.
Well first off, the quarterback is part of the talent. So when he says that they're a more talented team than 6-10 and they underperformed presumably because of the coaching since it were the coaches that were fired, the quarterback is in there. The Dolphins have a different quarterback in there this year but only because he beat out the quarterback that was in there last year. So if the Dolphins would be better if not for the QB play then no, Ross was not correct. Secondly, when you consider that he had a record day against the Arizona Cardinals and still lost, and also had a 91 passer rating against the Indianapolis Colts and still lost, then I'm not sure you can make a blanket statement about the team winning whenever he plays well. And that's also sort of a chicken-or-egg thing as well because a quarterback has to depend on so many other players around him. It's like the old claim that there's a strong correlation between number of rush attempts and winning the game so you should just keep running the ball and then you'll win. Ryan Tannehill performs better when the guys around him are performing well. Not so coincidentally, if guys around him are playing well, they're more likely to win. Just like if he's performing well, they're more likely to win.
Sparano was Parcells' guy. No denying that and never did. However, the disconnect here is this assumption that Sparano did not have Ireland's full support. If Jeff Ireland knew who Parcells wanted when Parcells came calling to hire Jeff as his GM (and by all means I think all your evidence supports that he did) then Jeff signed on knowing exactly who was going to be the head coach and fully supporting that decision. In fact later on when Ireland was with Ross on the Harbaugh adventure, there were all kinds of reports detailing how Ireland was dragged into it unwillingly and he preferred to keep Sparano. And in fact there were times during the coach search when asked what he was looking for in a coach, not only did Ireland seem to describe Tony Sparano, he outright said that he was looking for many of the same traits that drew him to Tony Sparano. I believe that Jeff Ireland helped set the table for Steve Ross but that in the end there was a disagreement on which of the final two they'd hire. I believe Philbin was Ross' guy. I believe there's evidence to that effect. But that doesn't mean Ireland doesn't support Joe Philbin. He had a hand in picking him. I don't understand the sentiment that just because after the process Ireland preferred McCoy and Ross preferred Philbin and they went with Ross' choice, that means Ireland would naturally have been fired the next day. That makes no sense to me. The decision had already been made to keep Jeff Ireland so no that would not at all have been "the most logical & appropriate time to sever ties". In fact the press would have had a field day with the awkwardness of that proceeding. It's just prose, fed by a cult of personality. It doesn't refute anything I've ever said about who had a hand in what.
Plus, as far as overall success goes compared to the above teams, we have to factor in that we have ONLY 2 players from pre-2008, IIRC, one being a punter. I mean, cmon, we basically made ourselves an expansion team where as Atlanta still had quality starters from pre-2008 that made it much easier to not only achieve quicker success but to also make it easier in the draft to focus on talent rather than need. Falcons from pre-2008 ​Roddy White John Abraham Tyson Clabo (Pro Bowl tackle) Justin Blaylock (stud guard) Todd McClure (solid center) Harvey Dahl (stud guard through 2010) Brent Grimes (Pro Bowl CB) Stephen Nicholas Jonathan Babineaux Ovie Mughelli (Pro Bowl FB) Jason Snelling (backup RB) Mike Jenkins (through 2010) Eric Weems (Pro Bowl punt returner, through 2011) Offensively, that's 4 pieces of their solid Oline already in place before '08.... an impact WR... a decent #2 receiver... and an impact FB. Defensively, it's 2 impact Dlinemen, an impact CB, a quality starting ILB..... Plus there were Michael Boley, Keith Brooking, Gabe Jackson, and Lawyer Milloy (pro bowl safety) in '08 to hold them over. You can't even compare Atlanta to us b/c of this. Packers from pre-2008 Aaron Rodgers (NFL MVP) Greg Jennings Charles Woodson (future HOF) Nick Collins (3 straight Pro Bowls through 2010) Donald Driver Chad Clifton (Pro Bowl LT, through 2010) Scott Wells (Pro Bowl center, through 2011) Daryn Colledge (LG, 7 straight years starting) Al Harris (through '09. Pro Bowl '08) Cullen Jenkins (through 2010) Ryan Picket (DT/DE) AJ Hawk Desmond Bishop (starting ILB, on IR) Nick Barnett (LB, through 2010) That's a lot of pre-existing talent to build on and help sustain success. Also, it makes drafting a lot easier when: Rodgers exists pre-'08 so you don't have to spend 3 high picks on QB over 5 years, as they could've gone elsewhere. Woodson making it unnecessary to spend an '09 1st rounder to fill a big hole at corner. Could've instead gone BPA like GB did with Clay Matthews. Left tackle Chad Clifton frees up a #1 pick for Chris Long (rather than Jake) Jennings & Driver making it unnecessary to trade 2 2nds for Marshall Jenkins & Picket making a #32 pick on Merling unnecessary (and could've drafted Jordy Nelson like GB did.. or Curtis Lofton) Colledge & Wells making our expensive FA attempts to fix the interior Oline unnecessary (and could've used that money elsewhere) that's 3 first rounders & 5 2nd rounders we could've had back to go elsewhere Furthermore, what would the Texans be without an offense consisting of Andre Johnson, Schaub, and Owen Daniels? Schaub & AJ would've freed up a 1st and 3 2nd rounders from going toward QB & WR. That directly allowed them Barwin, Reed, and Tate (all whom we could've drafted with our Marshall & White picks back).
And if that had represented what Chad Henne was capable of on a regular basis, Sparano would still be here, and none of us would be talking about any of this.
Henne is gone. A new coaching regime was hired, which wanted its own QB. Ryan Tannehill's QB rating is 72. Cherry-pick if you will.
This year, Newton is on a pace to produce about 27 TDs combined running and throwing. Last season he produced 35 TDs combined.
Great example of McNair in the Texans sticking with Kubiak as the team needed to find their groove, chemistry, and rhythem. Hopefully the Dolphins will find that as Ryan Tannehill though struggling with rookie growing pains, is the man of the future. The team's franchinse face!
