Manti Te'o

Yes please.

 

If he is there, then I don't see how you don't take him.

 

Outstanding player, fundamentally sound three down linebacker with great instincts. Great leader. Likely top 10 pick, but if he's there when you pick, you absolutely take him and you never look back. One of the safest picks in the draft.

 

I'll be the first to say it. I'm not overly impressed with his game. I think he struggles at the next level as I don't believe he has the physical skills to be a top LB.

 

Any comparisons for Teo? I've read Brian Urlacher before. Is that accurate?

 

Urlacher's not a bad comparison.

 

Physical skills would be the very last thing I criticize on him.

Last year I took a long look at the quality linebackers and I included he, Shayne Skov and Luke Kuechly. I liked Te'o least of those players so don't confuse me with someone that's just riding his jock for the sake of it. My criticism back then was that it was obvious he has the wheels, agility and cutting ability of an elite tailback (considering size), but that he took a lot of false steps and got himself out of position a lot. Well he sure as hell worked on that pretty good this year because when I've watched him, I'm seeing the same elite physical ability combined with a guy that is actually reading the offense much more quickly and accurately and being where he needs to be in the passing game.

Every time I watch him I just can't believe the range and cutting ability on him. Brian Urlacher was the guy I likened him to because of the elite range and athleticism, but also because Urlacher early in his career was infamous for taking bad steps and then using his A+ athleticism to bail him out.

 

He's a tackling machine and we would be lucky to have him here.

 

Ive never valued 4-3 LB's that highly especially after watching what Johnson's Cowboys and the Bucs and Colts did for years under Dungy finding fast LB's who could simply make tackles but Te'o is a pick I wouldnt hesitate to make for us even in the top 10. That dude is just a baller. And hes a leader and a half to boot.

 

It depends on what system you run I think. I think Manti Te'o is special. You don't pass on special for a need unless it's quarterback. Just my opinion.

 

Shared by many I assure you.

 

I think you have to take very seriously what kind of identity he could possible bring to a franchise that doesn't have one...besides the player on the field, I think the intangibles in our case is just as attractive.

 

I think what we've seen in Miami is that this is a league driven by its stars and Miami doesn't have enough of them. That's what I consider to be the biggest weakness in Jeff Ireland's drafting...picking up solid players that "can play in this league", but hardly ever picking up players that are really star play makers. You're right in that a star player helps a team create an identity. I think Manti Te'o is a star player at the next level.

 

That's the exact sentiments I had of Parcells running this team and I despised him for it, but I'm not convinced Ireland is of the same mold, and I say that b/c of the past 2 years of bringing in players like Tannehill, Pouncey, Miller, Matthews, Bush, Thigpen, Egnew, Thomas (whom some believed has star potential), plus the attempt at guys like Clyde Gates & Nic Grigsby.... and Clay could some day be interpreted as a star of the 6th round.... and we could certainly say Wake is a star, as is DeMarcus Ware. I actually get the impression he likes playmakers, and next year we'll finally [hopefully] get to see just how good, or not, he is at identifying high round stars at the skill positions of need, namely WR and the secondary, and perhaps linebacker. So far while on his own, Jeff's only 2 first round picks have been stars and seem superior to anyone else we could've drafted at either spot. But yes, we definitely need more, a handful more.... and I'll be upset if he doesn't bring them to us, regardless of giving us Tannehill, Pouncey, and Wake.

 

I think you're rationalizing on a lot of those players. I'm not sure what the argument is that signing a Marcus Thigpen is a sign that there's a difference in approach compared with, for example, when Dolphins signed the electric Jayson Foster out of Georgia Southern back in 2008.

And I'm also not sure how exactly stuff from 2008 and 2009 gets conveniently swept into Parcells' gift bag and then you turn around and talk about Cameron Wake's signing being a sign that Jeff Ireland disagrees with Bill Parcells. Wake was signed in 2009.

And if you think that taking an offensive center Mike Pouncey at #15 overall is a "reach for the stars" type moment for Jeff Ireland, and represents a different system of prioritization than taking left tackle Jake Long at #1 overall...then we're just not going to agree on this.

The biggest "reach for the stars" moment that has ever happened on Jeff Ireland's watch was the acquisition of Brandon Marshall. That's an absolute fact. And that happened on Bill Parcells' watch. You know what happened when Bill Parcells was not on watch? Trading Brandon Marshall away. So that represents a pretty big data point arguing against what you're talking about.

And another data point that seems to argue against is the fact that the Dolphins chose to demote and then trade away Vontae Davis while simultaneously choosing to showcase and talk up Sean Smith. Vontae Davis has always been the more electric of the two, the guy with the biggest "wow" plays, the closest thing to a star between the two players ever since they came into the league together. The Dolphins chose to trade away the flashy guy and showcase the meat-and-potatoes guy.

 

I think you should certainly consider him. He's got potential to be the BPA, and I think he would fit the Dolphins scheme.

It would make the situation a bit curious in terms of managing players. You can make it work, but it might be a bit difficult to avoid inefficiencies. All three of the Dolphins linebackers are playing well right now. Dansby is a bit expensive, but if he agrees to a pay cut I'm not sure you really can be all that motivated to replace him.

 

I think he's a top 5 player in this draft and doesn't get past Oaklands pick.

 

Not that Miami will get a shot at Te'o but if you did take Te'o, it would be so that you could straight up cut Karlos Dansby thereby freeing up $10 million for you to add immediate help at a position of need such as wide receiver. Except the timeline would be in reverse so cutting Dansby and acquiring said player would happen first, and then acquiring a Manti Te'o would happen after that.

 

I don't understand the logic in cutting Dansby. A player like Te'o with Dansby would give us amazing flexibility with our linebacker corps. There's reason to build on strengths... This would give us a very stout front seven.

 

WADR I'm not trying to rationalize anything. I don't have any need to. If Thigpen were a solitary example like Jayson Foster was I wouldn't have listed him, but when he's a part of a larger group he becomes a pertinent example.

'08 is when Parcells took over. That was undoubtably his team, his baby, and it would be no one but him putting a full stamp on it early on. Sure, Ireland obviously had some input, but it was Parcells making the decisions since it was his name on the line, and any input Ireland had was based on Parcells' blueprint for the team. It's obvious Parcells' blueprint ignored the playmaking aspect of the game, and based on the past 2 years with Ireland in charge I can deduce that Ireland either didn't preferentially share that blueprint or he realized it was wrong and quickly went away from it b/c the team under his control is uniquely different and seems geared toward the types of players you and I like. Now, whether or not he succeeds in bringing in the right playmakers is another story. So far, he's succeeded at QB. He's succeeded at Hback considering Clay was a 6th rounder. TE is still TBD but we both know Egnew has some playmaking potential. The type of linemen are more of the athletic, playmaking variety. The type of running back is more of the playmaking variety with Bush, Miller, and the slew of speedy FAs (including rookie FAs) we've given a go at. The type of WR he's gone after fits into the playmaking mold with Gates, Matthews, and Armstrong..... and based on what he's gone after at TE, RB, QB, and Oline, I'd presume he prefers no less playmaking ability from his receivers. Defensively he ditched the non playmaking Crowder for Kevin Burnett....... and then added the playmaking Thigpen to the return game.

I was under the impression Ireland was responsible for identifying Wake (since he's a CFLer) and pushing for him just as he pushed for Ware.... and just as Ireland has grabbed at least one other CFLer absent Parcells.

IMO that's a matter of perception. I wanted that pick months before it happened b/c IMO Pouncey is the type of guy who creates big-play opportunities, and as such he represented more than just a safe pick offensive lineman to me. To me, I see it as nothing more than Pouncey representing the best player on the board at the time, and he's proven to be such. Pouncey being a lineman is just a coincidence to me. I won't penalize Ireland for drafting an elite center like Pouncey just b/c Parcells chose to make a safe pick with Long. I'm sorry but I just can't rationalize any criticism of drafting an elite center who is the twin brother of a center who was a Pro Bowler as a rookie. IMO that's just a way to twist the term "safe pick" into a negative. A "safe pick" should only be a negative if the player only has a high floor but offers little upside regarding All-Pro potential. If the "safe pick" also represents All Pro potential, then it's a smart pick.

I respectfully disagree. IMO the biggest reaching for the stars moment, and quite a big one I might add, was sticking to his guns and drafting Tannehill in the face of half the country calling him a reach. Regarding Marshall, he was my favorite player, but the combination of a disgruntled Marshall [who reportedly didn't want to be here] combined with a new head coach who doesn't believe in an offense that constantly feeds a #1 receiver is a recipe for a trade, understandably so in my eyes, especially when we need this team to become Tannehill's rather than a primadonna WR's.

Completely agree that Vontae was the more electric; however, as you've pointed out, there's more to this team now than simply having ability. You've gotta work hard, know your job, be professional, be dependable, and be consistent, or else you won't play.... and I for one am fine by that b/c I want a structured team. It's not like we "chose" to give Vontae away over Sean Smith. We were offered a quality trade for him, and Philbin endorsed it by saying he was uncertain he could trust Vontae as he was too up & down and wasn't sure he was in the plans for the future. Vontae's original 1st round draft status is insignificant with a new sheriff in town, and it doesn't make a good impression on that sheriff when a player shows up noticeably out of shape, asks the sheriff to take a peepee brake during practice, engages in a fight with Steve Smith b/c he can't contain himself and draws a costly 15 yarder, and then draws a costly PI call 2 weeks later. Vontae got his own self traded by being immature, irresponsible, unprofessional, and untrustworthy. If he had worked as hard as Smith did this past offseason that initial phone call with Indy would've likely resulted in a prompt hang up.

 

He's 31 and costs 6.1 million and 9.05 million respectively over the next two years. Logical or not, it has to be a consideration, especially if you're trying to squeeze a Greg Jennings or a Mike Wallace or a Matt Shaugnessy or a Andy Levitre under the cap.

 

Chris, I loathed much of what Parcells did here, so if there's a chance I thought Ireland was nothing more than Tuna 2.0 I'd would've been beating the fire-Ireland drum last year or before. Actually, there was a time when I wanted him canned b/c I deemed him guilty by association, but I don't feel that way anymore b/c I see him liking the same type of players we like.

After drafting a franchise QB (whom he didn't have to draft), a starting rookie RT, a playmaking RB, a TE with playmaking potential, a surprising 3rd round DE who's contributing as a rookie, a 7th round WR with some playmaking potential, a 7th round backup DT, and 2 backup rookie FAs, I have no problem letting the 2013 draft determine Ireland's make or break fate.

 

Do you know what his cap hit would be if we cut him after 2013?

 

Here's the thing though. In all my time spent criticizing Jeff Ireland and what he's done with the Dolphins, have I *ever* done so on the basis of him being "Tuna 2.0"?

Never. He's different. Of course there are differences.

But is he BETTER?

I'd argue not.

 

I've never said I thought that, but there have been a couple times when it seems as though you've insinuating it. If that's not the case then I apologize for misinterpreting.

That's a great question.
IMHO, I feel he's undeniably better than Parcells b/c Bill seemed to refuse to adapt (outside of his stupid Pat White pick).

I'd argue that Ireland's now on the right track (part of that includes the belief that he intentionally didn't make any big splashes in FA this year b/c he wanted to give the team a season to settle in under Philbin and let that money build up in order to make the most sound decisions possible next year); however, I think it's too soon for any of us to be proven right or wrong about him b/c a GM who brings in a playmaker like Reggie Bush & drafts upside guys like Tannehill, Clyde Gates, Egnew, & Miller has a legitimate chance at pleasantly surprising us next draft & FA IMO. I can genuinely see him drooling over the addition of a Mike Wallace or Jared Cook. After all, weren't we reported as having called Pitt about Wallace? I'm not calling Ireland a success yet, but I do believe he's on the right path so I'm simply reserving my right to pass judgement until next year.

 

I'm not entirely certain but I think it depends how we distributed his guaranteed/signing bonus.... but I think we paid half of his guaranteed in 2010, so even if the remaining $11 million is distributed evenly, we're only in the hole for like $2.75M if we let him go after next year but $5.5M if after this year.

 

$22 million guaranteed.
paid $11M of it in year 1 as a signing bonus.
That leaves $11M over the remaining 4 years.
If distributed evenly it would leave $2.75M left to be paid in 2014, which we'd be in the hole for I believe.
But I don't know if we distributed it evenly or not.

 

Bump thread, always from now on.

Colmax, I would be in favor of renaming this thread

T'eo

I've been thinking, this franchise is desperate man, and getting worse every day.. It needs inspiration..an identity, something pure, leadership.

This kid has a chance..

I think we have to take it with him, cause we need him on more levels than any other team.

 

I don't think he will be there when we pick. We will not pick in the top 10. He could go as early as 5.

 

I know right...piss ***.

 

Slogan for the rest of the year..""Suck now for Te'o".
That should put us in striking distance.

 

Just a thought. How is Kuechly doing in Carolina. He was touted similarly to Te'o, obviously Te'o more so, but very similar in the way people were talking about talent meets intangibles. Would be curious to see if he met the hype.

 

Teo is a heck of a player, but the idea of this team spending a premium pick on a MLB instead of a pass rusher or top notch DB rubs me the wrong way. I'd feel a lot better about it if he was an OLB. We thought that we were going to get a highly paid game changer and play maker in Karlos Dansby- not so much.

I guess that it would depend on who was still on the board when we pick, and also whether or not the plan is to send Dansby packing and if so we would have a gaping hole at MLB. My gut tells me that I'd rather get a Damontre Moore or Anthony Barr and then spend maybe a 4th or 5th on AJ Klein as a quality and athletic MLB. That being said, Teo is a great looking MLB. Maybe the Bears will make a move for him to replace Brian Urlacher, who's getting up there in age. I wouldn't complain if we drafted him, although my preference would be for a pass rushing LB if we went in that direction. Tough call imo, it's such a compelling draft to land a top notch pass rusher, and what a dire need that is. Cameron Wake isn't getting any younger, and what a shame it is to not compliment that talent and make the best use of it.

 

I believe he's favored to be the DROY.

 

Very well indeed..The package of Kuechly/Russell Wilson was the next move for me if not moving up for RG..I hope Tannehill at least covers half of that, cause both those dudes were easy to project, and could of been attained.