Lol why is everyone so mad? Look on the bright side, Ireland will be fired!

I wouldn't be surprised if some of that infection spread to Philbin's staff by Philbin's own doing.

 

Exactly who are all those new pieces? On the defense you have basically the same players starting this year which you had last year, except for Carroll and Clemons. Both these players were used quite a bit in the secondary over the past few years.

On offense you have Tannehill, who seems to have regressed over the past few weeks. Martin is still getting his butt kicked on a regular basis at RT. Lane can't pick up a yard to save his life and his blocking is terrible.

Every other player now a starter on the offense was a starter for much of last year, except for Bess. Of course Bess was in on most passing plays over the last several years.

I just don't see all these new pieces you are talking about. To me that is just an excuse to try and justify Ross letting Ireland stick around for another year. I am sure that Ireland is telling Ross exactly the same thing and hopefully Ross is smart enough to look at this years starting units and compare it to last years starting units.

This team hasn't really improved over the past few years with Ireland making all the personnel decisions. In fact their 6-10 record in 2011 was the worst record the Dolphins have had since the Parcells regime began. The only starter from the 2011 draft class is Pouncey. The only starters from the 2012 class are Tannehill and Martin. So far Tannehill and Martin both remain question marks and both of them have played their worst games in the regular season in recent weeks. So Ireland has conducted the last two drafts without Parcells and the Dolphins have a grand total of three players on the starting offensive unit and zero on the defensive unit from these two drafts. No wonder this team remains a bottom tier team in the NFL.

How Ross can justify keeping Ireland if this years team finishes below 500 again is beyond me.

 

You haven't been here long enough to know, that's exactly what the Ireland Supporters believe.

 

Anyone who truly believes Parcells wasn't running the show [based on his own blueprint on how the team should be constructed] doesn't know his arse from a wall socket.
Should I hear you complaining tomorrow about your toaster not working, I'll know why.

There is a huge difference between working under someone else and running your own show.

 

Parcells was running the show for the most part. But some people here want to absolve Ireland from any and all mistakes while Parcells was here.
And even now that Parcells is gone they still come up with excuses for Jeffy.

 

Meanwhile there's a portion of the fan base who has essentially declared our draft picks as busts simply b/c "Ireland either made them or had a hand in making them", yet players like Reshad Jones are saying, "Hey, wait up a minute. You guys had me foolishly written off as a wasted pick, but now that I've settled in I'm becoming one of the better safeties in the league.".

See what I'm getting at here. There's an initial 3 year rookie curve for a reason, and it's not uncommon to see players take 4 or 5 years to reach their pinnacle, yet some Miami fans choose to completely disregard this truth in order to ignorantly plunder along their I hate Ireland path. This is akin to being a teacher who, after grading 10 questions of a student's test, gives the student an F despite 90 questions remaining.

 

Nice deflection there..... or is it merely a basic lack of fundamental understanding on your part that led you to such an unrelated statement?

BTW, if you're now going by the notion Parcells drafted everyone through 2010, then why so much hatred toward Ireland?

 

Game set match.

 

This thinking explains why the divorce rate is so high in America. "My spouse didn't make the bed twice this year....I'm out of here. Time to find a new one".

Just three games ago, most people here started believing all the hype from the media about this team being a playoff team. Now that that's gone, it's fire Ireland again. I actually expect knee jerk reactions from most fans. It's because we love this team. I personally don't think Ireland goes anywhere this year.

I have been saying for a long time that America has become a nation with a fast food mentality. They don't want to wait and take the time to make lunch or dinner. They would rather go to McDonalds for lunch or out to dinner and be served right away. You started seeing it in sports when they initiated free agency. It turned into a win now league. The problem I have with that is with every change, it takes a few years to get things settled. Bye the time the new coaching staff has the people he thinks he could be comfortable with, he's gone and a new guy is in his spot wanting his own new guys. It's a lose-lose situation.

I think Ireland gets two more years to see if his "drafted" players can make a dent. It seems like most people only count his "drafted" players as people he brought in. Remember, he re-signed some pretty good starters too. He didn't allow those guys to walk. He should get credit for those moves too, not just the drafted guys.

 

Where is it written that a 6-10 team, which a new coaching staff is rebuilding, has to be competitive the first year of the new administration?

 

Ok, blind referee. LB just did the equivalent of smacking the tennis ball into the bottom of the net and you're acting like he/she made the shot of the century. But it sounded good though, right.

The person who drafted Reshad Jones wasn't relevant to the gist of my post, obviously. Perhaps if I can reconstruct my post in pop-up book fashion you and LB might better understand it.

 

.....and a rookie starting at QB. Cmon, CDZ, don't you know the transition from one to the other [including learning new schemes, finding proper scheme fits, and player development] should be immediate and seamless?

 

Just out of curiosity, and mostly because before this year we Seahawks fans were having a similar debate, but, in the last 5 years how many first round franchise QB's have you had an opportunity to draft but passed on them?

Basically, how many QB's have you passed on that went on to be studs somewhere else? I know the answer for Seahawks fans is 0. We never drafted early enough for a top ten pick other than the year we **** the bed with the Aaron Curry pick. We could have had Mark Sanchez that year but I am sure glad we passed on him, otherwise we might still be stuck with him.

 

A lot of people in hindsight like to say Miami (Parcells) passed on Matt Ryan, but the fact of the matter is that Ryan didn't represent a clear cut #1 pick grade at the time the way Stafford, Luck, Bradford, or RG3 (any other year) did, and 2 teams in bad need of a QB passed on Ryan with the first 2 picks. Outside of that, we haven't really had a chance at anyone worth a darn unless it involved trading up for Josh Freeman, but I don't see that as something Parcells would've ever done.

 

I agree. Hard to blame anyone in that regime for drafting Jake Long, he was an A+ prospect on a team that BADLY needed a LT. Despite Jakes recent decline, it was 100% the right pick back then.

 

This will be as crucial of an offseason this team has had. A lot of cap space, a likely top 15 pick in RD1, 2 2nds n 2 3rds.

We need to " hit" on this offseason badly or this team may never be good.

Jeff needs to go, we can't afford moves like 40+ million to Karlos Dansby or trading up to get Daniel Thomas.

 

Agree wholeheartedly with the first 2 sentences.

We didn't have much wiggle room regarding Daniel Thomas after Tuna left us with a massive hole at RB (losing all 3 backs from 2010, which was ok with me) and in dire need of a starter. With it seeming like a run was being started on running backs (with Vereen & LeShoure going back to back), we didn't have a lot of options at the time.

 

Shocking to see you still ignored my original post. If you can't even argue a legitimate post (especially inside your own ridiculous, ranting thread), then I'm done with you.






In the meantime, might I recommend a book you'd perhaps enjoy.

 

He might need this first:

 

Yeah, unfortunately he/she skipped right into

 

This right here describes Ireland better than any other description I've ever seen. Those who say he completely sucks miss the mark - he doesn't. He does find some decent players here and there, and this year's draft - by and large, especially if Tannehill works out - isn't awful. But that's just it, we need a team that can be described better than "isn't awful."

The problem is, Ireland is mediocre. Where are the stars he's drafted? Name one! Now, even if Tannehill becomes one (please GOD!!!), we could even then argue to some degree that the pick was rather obvious by the time it came around. But others? Since the start of the Tuna era, our best draft picks are all really rather average. OK, Long WAS really good, but is now playing very average. The others .... Bess, Hartline, Smith, Clemons, Jerry, those types - all average. So, essentially, Ireland is average at best. And while that prompts a "good try" and "A for effort," it doesn't cut it when trying to create a winning team.

And even when he does make picks that are better than average - like Long and Pouncey - it's on O-line picks. That's all well and good, but as we see every Sunday, we need some skill position upgrades in the worst way.

As such, Ireland just has to go. The value of this upcoming offseason to our immediate and long-term future cannot be overstated. We have cap room, and five picks in what will likely be about the top 85 picks. We cannot screw this up! Out of those five, at least three (more would be better) have to be major contributors to our future, and at least one has to be at superstar, or at least approaching that level. We simply cannot afford to have only one or two of these guys contribute w/out a superstar added. Just can't, it will haunt our franchise for years.

The 2013 offseason is absolutely crucial! We just can't afford to have Ireland calling the shots. Way too risky!

 

It's extremely premature to determine the careers of T.Y Hilton and Michael Egnew..... as well as LaVon Brazil and Rishard Matthews for that matter. It'd behoove you to hold off on that argument a few years as there's a very real possibility that, when it's all said and done, Egnew & Matthews have better careers than Hilton & Brazill.

Davone Bess? Two 5th round starting safeties, one of which looks like a star in the making? 7th rounder Kheeston Randall? 7th rounder Jimmy Wilson? 6th rounder Charles Clay? 5th rounder Nolan Carroll? CFLer Marcus Thigpen? Rookie FA Josh Samuda? Rookie FA Derrick Shelby? Tony McDaniel? What do you think all those guys are who are now contributing more for us than their initial status would indicate?

Again, it's quite premature of you to determine these young guys' careers so soon as not everyone develops at the same rate in the NFL.

 

It's nice to see you've determined Ireland's lone 2 drafts as being "star less" despite these players still being in their developmental stage, and with most of them having only played 10 games. I shake my head at fans like yourself who prematurely determine picks as failures simply b/c Ireland made them.

Tannehill can develop into a star (and for you to downplay the pick as if it were some type of given is absolute nonsense and shows the true colors of your agenda).
Pouncey is a star.
Lamar Miller has some star potential to him.
Rishard Matthews has some playmaking potential, especially for a 7th rounder.
And Michael Egnew most certainly has the natural talent & ability to develop into one of the game's better receiving TEs. Unfortunately, uninformed or ignorant fans persist on foolishly complaining when a rookie sees little to no playing time despite it being the nature of the game.
Thigpen has near star potential as a return man.

I've never seen such unappreciative horse crud from fans in my life as I'm seeing this year.
A draft that offensively features Tannehill, Lamar Miller, Egnew, and Rishard Matthews should initially be something to rejoice over (not to mention finding what appears to be the long term answer at right tackle, a 3rd round DE who is actually contributing as a rookie, and a 7th round DT & free agent DE who are in the Dline rotation). But no, fans like yourself like to play the hindsight game, ignoring the good picks in the process, as if anything less than 100% draft success is unacceptable. All that does is demonstrate you know little about the nature of the draft. Furthermore, it's utterly ridiculous to see fans treat our draft as if Tannehill weren't a part of it. It's not fair for you take it out on the team just b/c you don't have the necessary patience to wait for this crop of guys to develop.

 

Dude, I've been plenty patient w/ Ireland. I'm sorry, I just don't see the true star power over the past five years, and not really sure any of our past two drafts have any true skill position star talent (I think Pouncey can be/is becoming a star at C). I'm just saying we can't mess next year up, and I'd rather have somebody calling the shots who has a better eye for skill position talent. At the same time, I don't think - like many - that Ireland has been God awful. He's been average, though, at best, and I want better than that in what could be a huge draft for us next April.

Tannehill, of course I give Ireland credit for it, but at the same time I'm not sure it was really all that difficult of a pick. Like - hey, we needed a franchise QB, and he was the best available at the time, and our OC was his coach just months before. Of all the no brainers, that was a pretty big one.

Let me ask you this - what is it about Ireland that makes you so excited to see him do this draft next April? What about his past picks/signings make you so confident?

 

Yeah and they drafted not one, but two of the top TEs in the draft to go along with their rook QB and we know that a good TE can really help a QB, especially a rook. Ireland drafted a TE who is a bench warmer with what seems like some kind of mental disorder.

 

Are you kidding me? Ireland would have let Wayne walk, replacing him with an UDFA or something.

 

Ross: refers to Peterson.
Peterson: endorses Ireland. (Jerry Jones plucked Ireland away from Peterson in KC.)
Wake up people.

If Ireland wasn't already a GM last year, Ross and Peterson may have hired him themselves !
Furthermore, If Ireland wasn't let go last year, it's far less likely they would let him go any time soon.
Your just not paying attention to the details here. This could also be said for your analysis on a General Managers body of work.

 

Who are the meaningful FA's?

 

I disagree. He only took over the team in 2011 (a year that we had to endure a lameduck HC), and this recent year saw a significant change to the team. That's not nearly enough time to say "I've been plenty patient". Not remotely close.

So Tannehill doesn't represent potential "star talent" from the past 2 drafts?... nor Pouncey for that matter? How do you come to the belief that it's easy to find "star talent" after the 2nd or 3rd round?... And, if you believe Oline (especially a starting RT) is less important than a 2nd round WR in a WCO, you'd be mistaken, no offense. Without a good Oline, your stars have much less ability to shine.

Question: What's the first thing you do after drafting a talented 1st round QB? Answer: Ensure his protection, which supersedes getting him weapons. Martin has borderline 1st round talent, so if you think we've experienced some growing pains with him, how bad do you think it would've been if we waited till later in the draft to find a starting RT?

As far as the 3rd round goes, we had only 2 DEs on the roster prior to the draft (one of which was a temporary bandaid). On top of that, DE is more of a core position than WCO receiver. That's not disputable. Plus I don't see fans complaining about Vernon anymore.

Up next: Michael Egnew. What would our TE position look like heading into next year if we don't resign Fasano? Answer: We'd have Charles Clay, who is an Hback, not a TE. It's gross negligence to openly put ourselves in that position, especially considering the transition from college to NFL TE is far from quick & easy. As a GM, if you anticipate an issue at TE a year from now, then you better be looking for the solution in this draft so that he has enough time to develop. Besides, no 3rd round receiver would currently be "making" our season and have us as one of the current wild card teams, so the complaining about not taking TY Hilton as if he would've been our savior is just silly.

Lamar Miller was a solid pick and arguably better than any 4th round WR we could've drafted.
From there on we took 2 receivers, one of which looks to be a future contributor.
This 2012 draft has the potential to prove immensely successful, period, so to deem it as a failure just b/c we didn't draft a WR in the first 3 rounds (as some had hoped) or that it wasn't a 100% success is just plain wrong.

Nice of you to completely simplify it like that, as if Ireland drafted Tannehill b/c of the late media hype and hadn't already done his full scouting on him prior. What makes you think we drafted Tannehill b/c of Sherman rather than bringing in Sherman & Zac Taylor b/c Ireland had plans of drafting Tannehill for a while? To say that Ireland drafted Tannehill b/c he was the media's designated "hot name" at the time is absolutely ridiculous. By that notion we would've drafted Ryan Mallett in the 1st round of 2011 and Brady Quinn in '07. If Tannehill becomes a star, Ireland gets all the credit for it, period.

1. He's highly respected among the NFL as being a good evaluator of talent.
1b. Ireland is NOT a Parcellian disciple so I don't charge him with "guilt by association" like many fans unfairly do. Ireland drafts nothing like Parcells BTW.
2. He has endorsements among the NFL as having what it takes to make this organization successful.
3. He has one of the better eyes for defensive talent in the NFL.
4. He can find late round contributors.
5. His first 3 years here were UNDER Parcells, with Parcells in full control, and the entire NFL & media knew it. As such, the blueprint for the team & players brought in were Parcells's, not Ireland's..... which means Ireland wasn't necessarily bringing in players he, himself, would've preferred as it was Parcells's grocery list.
6. Ireland couldn't freely pick and choose the type of players he wanted during the first 3 years as if the schemes and coaching staff were irrelevant. He was limited to what fit Henning's terrible & outdated offense, as well as failed HC, Sparano. I have no idea why that goes understated. Therefore I can't blame Ireland for the 3 & 4 year disaster of Henning-Sparano b/c it's not feasible to assume the roster would've been the same if we had gone with Joe Philbin and his WCO instead.
7. The lackluster 2008 draft has Parcells written all over it, as it should considering it was his first year as our czar in charge where he could come in and try to put his stamp on this organization. We doubled or tripled up at 3 positions (DE, RB, OG) a philosophy Parcells seems subscribe to, where as Ireland is all about sticking to his board and taking the best player available.
8. 2009: Ireland didn't draft Pat White. That was all Parcells, and blowing that one pick really hurt us. Nalbone was also a Parcells pick. Outside of those Parcells' blunders, 2009 was a good draft.
9. 2010 was a good draft. It also helps when you have a successful DC & scheme to scout players for as opposed to 3 years of Henning.
10. He seems trustworthy of not making crazy, rash decisions like Dan Snyder or the late Al Davis would.
11. He prioritizes players with character and quality intangibles, and he seems to prefer athletes who are true football players rather than jumping all over physical measurables & combine numbers. Based on the players he's brought in the past 2 years, he seems to have an affinity for playmakers which seems a far cry from the first 3 years of Parcells.
12. The 2012 draft has the potential of being very good and even outstanding.
13. We didn't miraculously find ourselves in the position of having a ton of cap space and extra draft picks next year, one year after the team is afforded a season to settle in under a new coaching staff and new offensive/defensive schemes. Yes, that patience to wait an extra year might've hurt us this year but it could prove pivotal for future success, so I won't deem his actions a failure until they warrant it. There's likely a method to his madness [that'll continue unfolding next year] that is geared more for long term growth & success than immediate reward. I won't deem his vision as a failure just b/c I can't see it yet.
14. From my vantage point, his priorities are right. He understands the game is won in the trenches and with great QB play, and as such he's made a huge effort to address that the past 2 years (Tannehill, Pouncey, Martin, re-signing Soliai, Vernon) and will likely continue doing so in the future.
15. You may not think Ireland cares about building around Tannehill, but the past 2 drafts would heavily disagree: we've addressed QB protection with Pouncey & Martin..... and 58% of the remaining picks were on WR, TE, and RB.... so any notion that Ireland doesn't care about skill players or helping Tannehill is absurd.
16. Less than 2 years of tenure is simply too soon to form any accurate opinion about Ireland's ability to draft for Philbin's team/offense.... however, there aren't many GMs around I'd rather have drafting defensive players for us. Ireland's career here will be determined by how Philbin, Tannehill, the rest of the 2012 draft class, 2013 draft, and 2013 free agency pan out.

 

Quite ignorant of you to dismiss the fact that Ireland spent 50% of the past 2 drafts on offensive skill players, and then another 2 picks on ensuring the future safety of the QB.

At what point will you get it through your head that the NFL isn't like Madden football and that drafting BPA is more important for success than reaching for a WR out of need? On top of that, I LOL at your belief that a 3rd-5th round receiver would've been the savior of our season.
Honestly, your grasp of the game is seriously flawed to believe a 2nd round WR in a WCO is more of a core position than starting RT. Insult to injury you think a 3rd round WR is more important than a DE/pass rusher, especially when we only had TWO on our roster (one of which was a temporary bandaid FA) after the retiring of Taylor and Misi's move to OLB. DE was a greater priority than WR, period, and on top of that, Vernon represented value on our draft board. That gets us to Egnew where you've essentially determed our entire 2012 draft a failure b/c we didn't take TY Hilton.
Not only that, but you've foolishly determined 10 games into their rookie year that Hilton will have a more productive NFL career than the draft's 3rd ranked TE. LOL at that, too.

Seriously, just go back to your Madden Franchise Mode and save real football stuff for the grownups. I bet you're the kind of person who will re-do the Madden draft a dozen times if needed until you get it exactly the way you want. The real world doesn't work that way.

 

This logic ( i'll call it nitpicking ) will always yield similar results.. Yes its a form of passion. Indicates your a great fan. But you have to understand, we are aware that teams miss out on good players every year. You can cherry pick the best players in any draft and blast whomever chose someone else ahead of him. You guys are building a case against Ireland like its a nasty divorce. Your last statement is pretty telling. Here's my more sensible counter: The reality is the dolphins have long been a mediocre franchise. Long before your current scapegoat arrived.

The GM is assumed to be a holdover from a failed regime, when that's not even the case. To even assume his body of work here is enough of a sample size to rush to this kind of judgement is unprofessional. But let's say it is enough to decide on him. Let's say from 2008 on is all Ireland, Tuna was busy eating pastries the whole time. Do you remember the 2007 roster ? Do you not realize we turned the entire team over the past 4.5 years ? Primarily through the draft. This team is just growing up.

Call me an apologist if it makes you feel better, I'm not defending Ireland nearly as much as I am trying to help folks find the light ( to put it nicely ) . Its just puzzling to me how the critics come to their conclusions. Seriously, not signing Matt Flynn sent many into a frenzy !! Feed off a few things from the media and watch it grow. Lost a lot of respect for highly regarded posters over all the bass akwards whining. If you havent realized that dolphins fans are perceived as the lowest grade of fan there is....... than your part of the problem.

 

Well said. He doesn't suck bad enough to fire but he's not good enough to get us the players to get to the next level. My fear is he will be around 1 more year and will waste our 5 picks in the first 3 rounds.

 

This is exactly what is going to happen.