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My fellow Ireland haters, we must convene the grand council and ask for forgiveness.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Vinny Fins, Oct 20, 2012.

  1. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    I... may have been wrong about this man. I was/am a very outspoken critic of his.

    All his faults and missteps made me overlook his successes. This team is building momentum in the right direction. This team is going places next year, hell, maybe even THIS YEAR.

    I am ready, with say 4 more games to make sure this isn't an early season mirage, to apologize to Jeff Ireland.

    Are you ready to get back on board? Are we done burning him in effigy? What will you need to see?

    Never have I been so relieved to be wrong.

    This team, if it re-signs it's own, has maybe 3 areas of need, which for once, may all be addressed in short order.

    There is light in the tunnel, and it's not a train for a change.

    Dolfans can have that precious commodity: Hope.
     
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  2. Dolfan330

    Dolfan330 My wein is so chaffed...

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    Jeff Ireland turned me into a newt, but i forgive him for drafting Tanny.
     
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  3. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    Perspective is the keyword. People are now realizing Ireland perhaps was not as horrific as everyone screamed he was, however we must exercise a modicum of perspective. He has a lot to prove still, and this off-season might just well swing the pendulum.

    IMO he remains average, with a lot to prove in the coming year. We'll see how he comes out.
     
  4. seabass0795

    seabass0795 New Member

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    And it helps the fact that we have 5 picks in possibly the top 50 picks. Vontae who? I remember after the trade tons of people increased their hatred on Ireland, but I think if we get a good player with that pick it is 100% worth it.
     
  5. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    I'd agree with this as a general description of at least this forum. Going from pitchforks and torches to crow-eating in the span of a month is a huge swing.

    I personally haven't changed my opinion of Ireland. I still see a guy whose positional priorities are wrong, who misallocates cap and draft pick resources, and who has needed the new head coach to curb his tendencies toward acquiring people with specific physical attributes rather than specific football skills. I'm particularly put off by the vast difference between the way he approached Chad Henne—declaring him a success without him playing a game—and the way he approached Ryan Tannehill—sending tape out to anyone who would watch as if he were afraid to invest the 8th overall pick in him, and being generally less publicly effusive about what is clearly a far superior player.

    I don't think winning has cured anything, it's just masking over what is still an issue.
     
  6. PSG

    PSG Clear Eyes. Full Hearts.

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    I laid out how I feel in the crow eating thread.
    I still think he comes across as a bit of duoche, but he is a good talent evaluator.
    His GM skills are still up for debate, IMO.
    Overall, more a fence-sitter than Firelander right now.
     
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  7. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    But you got better!

    [​IMG]
     
  8. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I will admit that I am one of the individuals on this forum who has taken issue with Ireland as the teams GM. This certainly doesn't mean that I hate him. I don't know him, therefore my views of him are entirely based on the job he has done in his five years as the teams GM.

    I stated before the season that I wanted to see how this season plays out before making any other comments regarding Ireland. My view is that if the Dolphins finish the season above 500, Ireland should be retained. If they finish below 500 for the fourth consecutive season, he show not be retained. While I am happy with Tannehill and some of Ireland's other selections, he should be judged on the teams wins and losses and nothing else. Right now it is far too early in the season to make a determination on the future of Ireland.
     
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  9. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

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    Everything is forgiven with a good QB as it's the single most important position in the game, and maybe in any team sport. And Tannehill looks great for a rookie. If he's still putting up these numbers in year 2 or 3, there might be an issue.

    I still maintain Ireland generally drafts in a risk adverse way, is better at evaluating defense, isn't patient enough developing players, and is fairly horrible at free agency. It would be difficult to get a better GM to come to Miami, except for this particular offseason (tons of picks, tons of cap room). This offseason will literally make or break the franchise for the next 4-5 years.
     
  10. RickyNeverInhaled

    RickyNeverInhaled Well-Known Member

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    I have gone from negative on Ireland to nuetral before the season began just because I use to hold him accountable for everything during the parcell years. Now I only judge him after the Parcell years.
    I am still waiting til after the next off season when I will either change my stance to negative or positive. If he resigns our own players and fills our few glaring needs I will be positive on him. Even if players our a bust. As long as he tries to do that I am good with him. If he creates more needs by not resigning our own and doesn't attempt to address all our needs than I will be negative on Ireland.
     
  11. RickyNeverInhaled

    RickyNeverInhaled Well-Known Member

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    Ireland will always be remembered as the first person to finally draft a QB in the first round since I was 2 months old in 1983.
     
  12. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Des, now I see a guy who has slowly become a real GM, as opposed to the puppet that he was when Quitcells sprayed his foul stench on this franchise. He was weaned in the Quitcells dinosaurian method of building NFL teams and had it extenuated by Sparano. It really shows a lot that he shed that stench, re-adjusted his talent evaluation to one that conforms to what Philbin is looking for in talent this offseason. I think that speaks volumes as to what he's capable of. His public skillset still leaves some to be desired, but that's not what wins games for us.

    What also shows just how wrong many have been about him is the development of guys like Smith, Carroll, Misi, Odrick, Hartline, Jones, JJerry, etc. Another quality I think he has is the ability to cut ties on guys that are not working out...(Marshall, Davis, CJ85, etc). Yet another quality that he's shown is the ability to not bow completely to public or private pressure in NOT acquiring certain guys that are may or may not be more than stopgap measures. Sure as I say this, he'll trade for Bowe or someone of that ilk and prove me wrong. But there were guys that the fans have been clamoring for him to go after and he's turned out to more right about them than we have (Flynn, A. Smith, a plethora of washed up WRs, etc).

    Look, the guy still has one major hurdle to jump before he should actually get the accolades of a bona fide, quality Gm. He has extra cash and extra picks this coming offseason that he has to be just as good on as this past offseason. It's not really fair to him, but given the Quitcells stench, he has to come thru once again...
     
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  13. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I think this meeting should take a recess until / unless Miami has a better season this year than last, preferably .500 or better.

    I think 3-3 has so so so much more to do with Philbin than Ireland at this point. Just my opinion, but I'll be ready to turn the corner if some more of Ireland's picks pan out and contribute towards the scenario I mentioned above.
     
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  14. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    did you put down your pitchfork to type this slanted post? :wink2:
     
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  15. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    [​IMG]
     
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  16. ssmiami

    ssmiami Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ireland doesn't develop players the coaches do that, you could say he can see potential in someone but he doesn't develop players that is all on the coaches.
     
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  17. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You're still wrong if this last draft dramatically swayed your opinion on Ireland. It's still early for this draft, and the idea that what he had done prior was bad wasn't well supported even before a handful of previous players have improved dramatically.
     
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  18. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    3 areas of need? WR (at least 1 high end player, probably 2 are needed overall), TE, CB (again probably need 2 players here), additional pass rushers. And thats if we resign Long, Bush, Starks, Smith, and Hartline.

    Ill say this, Ive been fooled before by Ireland. So now he has to prove it to regain my faith in the job hes doing. I will however give him credit where credit is due...he acknowledged we needed a QB, whether it was reluctant or not and he acknowledged we needed a different voice and he found it in Philbin. When youre building a team if you dont have a coach and you dont have a QB, you dont have poop. Those are probably the two most important pieces. We now have both.
     
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  19. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Crow eating threads are un-American. I think you all should take your lead from our politicians. Just act like you never said it, or even better, that your stance was different all along. Every person on this board has been wrong (exept me, you just didn't understand my posts).
     
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  20. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    It's not just about this last draft being the end-all determiner of whether we should hang the guy in effigy or hail him as a saint, it's about the fact that he did change his stripes to accommodate Philbin and Coyle's approach to personnel. This had to be difficult and humbling for him. With most GM's, they have a philosophy and push the staff to adopt his approach, rather than changing his approach to adapt to theirs. A quality that guys like Polian and Ozzie Smith, for example, have done in their tenures of their teams. Bear in mind, I am not comparing those established guys to Ireland, merely pointing out one quality that all of them have shown....

    We can argue all day whether and to how much of an extent coaching has had on the success of the this franchise, but Philbin is basically doing it with the folks that are/were already here save for this draft class. Having a better option at QB, makes any coach and GM more likely to be held in higher esteem. The jury is still out on Tanny. He needs to continue to improve, not just for this season, but the signs are looking good for him, better than anyone we've had since Danny.... All these things said, the bottom line is this team and many of the players are looking better than they did last season... It's still the chicken/egg thing regarding the personnel vs the coaching...

    I think even the staunchest anti-Irish guys can/should concede this for now...as I said above, the next offseason is where he makes or breaks things for this team and likely for most fans of the team....
     
  21. RickyNeverInhaled

    RickyNeverInhaled Well-Known Member

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    LOL. that's good stuff!
    edit: remember this one? "Depends on what your definition of is, is"
     
  22. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Which part is slanted—the part on Hard Knocks where Ireland is defending the eventually-cut Clyde Gates due solely to Gates' speed; the part about him saying in the 2009 offseason that he already knew that Chad Henne was a success; or the part where he kept sending tape of Tannehill out? Because all three happened and are true. Your agreement is not required for these events to have occurred.
     
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  23. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    the poor house
    Ireland has many people fooled he hasnt done squat its Philbin that deserves the credit. if Sparano was here we would be way worse off.

    we have gotten lucky on the wins and we cant run the ball that well so when we get a real star at our skill positions besides Tanny then I will jump on board.
     
  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/s...ions-are-clicking-for-miami-dolphins-g/nShgw/


    “You can make an argument that the two players who made the biggest impact last week were our rookies, Tannehill and Vernon,” Rose said. “I can’t ever remember a time that’s happened.”
    And some of the younger players who once looked like they could be disappointments — such as cornerback Sean Smith, linebacker Koa Misi, right guard John Jerry and safeties Reshad Jones and Chris Clemons — are key contributors in their third or fourth seasons.
    “I never bought into the criticism of Jeff Ireland,” said former Washington Redskins and Houston Texans general manager Charley Casserly. “The biggest fundamental difference this year is Tannehill has been a big plus, Reggie Bush has been a big plus and perhaps they have a few less distractions without Marshall and Vontae Davis.”
    Ireland also has the Dolphins well positioned for the future. They will enter next offseason with upwards of $50 million in salary cap space, although much of that will likely be used to re-sign players such as Smith, Hartline, Bush, Jake Long, Randy Starks and Anthony Fasano.
    The Marshall and Davis trades have given the Dolphins extra picks in the second and third rounds in April’s draft.
    “The Dolphins are in a great position from a cap standpoint going into next year, and they’ve got a bunch of draft picks,” said former Dolphins defensive end Trace Armstrong, now an agent with the powerful Creative Artists Agency. “So when I say the future is bright, I think it’s really bright.”
    Rose, who hosts a morning sports talk show on 560-AM in Miami, said he doesn’t hear much from the anti-Ireland crowd these days."

    There's a lot more.
     
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  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    " Wrote Sports Illustrated’s Peter King in his column this week: “Joe Philbin and Jeff Ireland: Perfect together.”
     
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  26. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He's shown himself to be as or more competent than previous GMs, and it would only make sense to call for his removal if there's someone available who is demonstrably better.
     
  27. jsizzle

    jsizzle Banned

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    :loser:
     
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  28. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    Welli think its vital that we go into next offseaon with confidence that he will manage the fifty mill and five high picks effectively. The fact that we are in good cap position going into next year is a positive for him to me it is how the Carrolls, Jones misis, Smiths, Clemons, Hartlines, Spitlers, Wilsons, finish this season out.

    These are guys that he drafted and guys that have been here a couple of years they are hugely related to his success or failure.
     
  29. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    yes, the way you attempted to skew this is slanted. So what if Ireland was apprehensive about cutting a raw player prior to his second year. You're trying to make it seem like it's some asinine assertion, as if the decision to cut Gates should've been easy, as if Gates possesses no gifted natural ability whatsoever. :001_rolleyes: And your attempt to credit Philbin for Ireland's recent decisions based on this event is ridiculous, desperate, and quite convenient from an Ireland hater.
    BTW, why don't you quote Ireland's actual statement rather than slantingly paraphrasing it.
    link? And so what BTW. Who gives a ****. It was 3 years ago. Talk about a desperation attempt. Would it be the first time a GM was wrong about something or openly showed support of one of his young players? Did Henne not look like a future success during '09. Did Parcells, Henning, and Sparano set Henne up to succeed? Not remotely close.
    Remind me why you're complaining about our QB position.

    Yeah, you DEFINITELY tried to slant this one!
    A. Ireland did NOT send tape out to everyone who'd watch it [as you tried to make it seem]. He sent it out to some trusted eyes and kept it under wraps.
    B. Ireland had Tannehill pegged with a 1st round grade LONG BEFORE anyone else was even thinking it, and even up until the draft most analysts etc were speaking of Tannehill as a reach inside the top 10, so what the hell is wrong with Ireland wanting an extra set of eyes to confirm his feelings on a guy who wasn't getting as much attention as Ireland felt he deserved? BTW, did we not ****ing draft him?..... or will you ridiculously try to say the "extra sets of eyes" drafted him? I guess you believe it's better to have an Al Davis type GM who often boldly listens to no one and makes costly poor decisions b/c of it. Glad you don't run this team.
    the occurrence of events has nothing to do with the manner in which you tried to slant them.
     
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  30. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    This is why you do a systematic objective analysis of something before you feel so strongly and express such strong opinions about it.
     
  31. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    I forgot how funny your posts could be. Okay, so you don't remember the actual details of statements that were made and events that transpired. Noted.
     
  32. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    So what you're saying is you have no real response. Noted.
     
  33. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    It took me over 4 years to develop a hatred of Ireland, so it's gonna take more than 6 weeks to change things.
     
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  34. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    They never do, you're not surprised are u?
     
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  35. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    ...... but then you're called a Kool Aid drinker or an apologist by obtuse-minded posters who do no systematic objective analysis.
     
  36. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ireland has certainly made his mistakes as GM and I think some Dolphins fans magnified those and overlooked some of his good moves like Wake, Bess, Starks, etc. The truth is, even the best GMs make plenty of mistakes. The Patriots are seen as the gold standard, yet they have whiffed plenty of times. Really, any GM you look at you can find mistakes. I was hard on Ireland for not addressing the WR position and still feel that he made a mistake there, but as some of his moves are starting to look better and better it leads me to be more satisfied with the job he's done. I still think we need to see how the season ends with some of these guys that are flashing, but at the moment you have to feel that Ireland certainly deserves to keep his job.
     
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  37. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    THIS!

    I don't care how many games we win this year, our 2010 draft was garbage outside of Pouncey.
     
  38. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Pouncey was drafted in 2011. 2010 yielded Odrick, Misi, Jerry, Carroll, and Jones. That looks like a pretty good haul at the moment.
     
  39. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    Pretty much this.
     
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  40. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Assuming you meant 2011, even then, we had 6 picks; Pouncey, Thomas, Gates, Clay, Kearse, and Wilson. Pouncey is damn good, Thomas is serviceable at best, Gates is gone. Clay is a contributor, Kearse was a 7th round pick, and Wilson is a 7th round pick that contributes. I wouldn't call it garbage considering we didn't have the best picks. We whiffed on Ridley and Murray though and took Thomas instead.
     

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