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Hartline/Bess..Top receiver duo in the NFL.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Oct 6, 2012.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/05/3035280/miami-dolphins-receivers-show.html

    The forgotten man in this whole story..Black ninja..( pod hasn't told me what ninja means in his neck of the woods so I'm still using it lol)

    I can't keep my eyes off Bess, he's playing at a much higher level, and he's making difficult catches..I just love that dude on our team, I trust him completely.

    What a story it is...to bad we missed some field goals, they would be getting national attention if we did'nt.

    Goodness we can interpret this in many different ways..

    Philbin/Sherman "staaaaay schemin" offense...

    Mr. Ryan Tannehill
     
  2. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    although tanny puts em behind him, bess needs to start commin up with those quick slants.... dropping every time. PRACTICE IT MOAR
     
  3. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    This is a bad thing.......according to some...or one.
     
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  4. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's getting a bit under considered given Hartline's success, but Bess is doing really well too. He's on pace on 1,200 at this point, and what he's doing is a bit more sustainable.
     
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    there was one of those slants that looked like a drop, but on review was a tipped ball.
     
  6. RickyNeverInhaled

    RickyNeverInhaled Well-Known Member

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    I just looked up ninja in the urban dictionary and its the racial slur for black people. The dreaded "N" word with an "a" on the end, not "er".
    I think that's stupid. Just thought I would let you know since pod never told you and i just looked it up. I think we would all agree that the way we use it isn't racial at all.
    Anyway, who would of ever thought we had the best WR duo in the league! that's awesome!
     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He's getting to a point where if you throw it in his vicinity he's coming up with the ball, some in extraordinary fashion.
     
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  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That sucks, to me the other definition is what I see when it comes to this player, no wasted movement, supreme focus skills, precision work ethic..
     
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  9. RickyNeverInhaled

    RickyNeverInhaled Well-Known Member

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    I know, me to. The majority of people in this world don't know the urban definition of the word. we all know a ninja is a person involved in some sort of martial arts, a quick person, focused, great skill, athletic, and all that good stuff. There's no need to quit using that nick name IMO
     
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  10. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    At yards maybe, touchdowns they both have 1 more than Legadu.
     
  11. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    don' t we have like 10 rushing TD's ?
     
  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    yup, uncanny sometimes, it just doesn't look like he's gonna come down with it, and then he flaps on those paws and it sticks, lol, funny sometimes and sometimes brilliant..

    I'm not dillusional, I know we need a Bailey Austin type, but maybe we don't need the Kennan Allen type, which would allow us to address other needs with the High first.

    Well see how it plays out and who's the best player on the board when we pick.
     
  13. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Since you're talking to me, I'll reply. Not to point out the obvious but it's somewhat difficult to distribute the ball around to multiple receivers when you've only had 2 of them, so Bess & Hartline SHOULD BE putting up some yardage numbers. For perspective, we rank 17th in passing yards BTW.

    Through 4 weeks, Miami has had 53 drives (12 more than the Giants, for reference).
    We've only punted 36% of the time (8th in the NFL)... BUT, our scoring efficiency is one of the NFL's worst at 1.47 pts/drive (ranked 27th).

    Hartline & Bess have combined for 752 yards.
    84% of those (or 632) resulted from our avg starting field position (25 yard line) to our opponent's 40 (a span of 35 yards).

    That means ONLY 16% (or 120) of their yards came from inside our opponents' 40.
    Insult to injury, [inside the 40] they combine for a 33.5% completion rate (26% less than over the first 60 yards), 4.4 yard avg (compared to 8.1 over the first 60 yards), 18.5% first downs (compared to 44.5% over the first 60 yards), 18 YAC, and 0 TDs.


    Bess & Hitman obviously don't have a deficiency helping us get to midfield, but something is making us not very balanced as we cross the 50 as the field progressively shrinks, and it's preventing us from scoring points. I know we have a rookie QB, but that's not all on him. I could point to the aforementioned stats or the fact that neither are a threat to score which allows us to be made 1 dimensional as the field shrinks, but that would just make me some type of bitter fan who's pooping on your prestigious yardage parade.

    So, you can get all googly-eyed about their stats if you so desire, but there are some of us here who care more about wins & losses, scoring output, and offensive efficiency than the stats of 2 players. This isn't doubles tennis.

    Bess & Hartline should serve as a great compliment to a true playmaking receiver, but they aren't enough as our top 2 targets if we want to be more scoring-efficient and win more games rather than constantly playing to the wire.
     
  14. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    that's more then likely what pods meant.
     
  15. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    And one more than a host of stud receivers in the NFL, as well.
     
  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Nah, think "she will throw that ninja on you"
     
  17. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    They are a great duo. I had high expectations for them this year and had the team not blown some of those near wins, they would certainly be getting a lot more positive hype, etc. FWIW, On NFLN, Brian The Finger Baldinger picked us to win this week. He really likes Hartline and thinks Tanne is showing great progress and potential for a rook with limited college experience. A lot of people are saying his command and ability to make calls and changes at the line is amazing. People talk about his command and composure and that's what I've mentioned that impresses me the most about him. Sharpe likes Hartline and the Phins as well.
     
  18. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    It'll slow down once we have more targets for Tanny. Gaffney will help in 2-3 weeks with that. We've kinda been forced to feed it to those 2 as no one else is really stepping out in the receiving department.
     
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  19. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    After all that crying that we had no receivers, after some acted like the Naanee signing was some devastating failure because he's not Brandon Marshall. But the same people were furious we didnt draft the likes of Stephen Hill, and even acted like Juron Criner or many of the WRs taken after him on day 3 were absolutely necessary. We don't have the best WR duo in the league, obviously. But we went into the off season knowing we had 2 proven starters ( aside from Bmarsh ) that could flourish in this system. So to those claiming the GM has ignored the WR position...... you've under-estimated the players, the GM, and/or ignored the subject to which you claim to know so much about. Dropping Marshall was addition by subtraction, and the 2 second-day picks are a nice return considering we paid 2 second day picks to get him.

    Yeah, that was a great big "I told you so". Here's to Matthews or Fuller or Moore or Hogan emerging down the road. :hi5: I'm sure we'll resign Hartline and make a big addition on the opposite side next year too.
    Having faith in your team just feels so much better than hoping your wrong all the time. It's rewarding when guys you pull for actually break through and prove the naysayers wrong. Give it a try ! Love me some Bess and Hartline, always did. Glad to see they're not over-shadowed, under-utilized anymore.
     
  20. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    If stats told the whole story we would all be saying Tannehill is a bum.
     
  21. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    I don't know if I'd say 'forced', its not like it hasn't been working. They did account for 31 of Ryan's 41 passes last week though ! The reception percentage is pretty favorable between them both. Still, an upgrade to the veteran Ocho-Naanee-Armstrong spot is surely welcome. Plaxico is flabbergasted ! Happy with Gaffney. Armstrong too, I guess.
     
  22. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You have to wonder... Out of the Box sort of speaking DJ...

    Is this the case of a good QB making a decent receiver look better???

    You would have to look back at last year and maybe before with both Bess and Hartline, and see if Henne/Moore did not have/take the time to look their way more often... Given the case that Marshal was here for two years...

    I really think having another veteran like Gaffney makes life better for all the WR combined...
     
  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think his accuracy and anticipation is something these receivers haven't seen before, he's definitely throwing them open at times and elevating their play, I also feel Bess was gonna improve regardless..

    When I watched every one if his practice reps, it was a clinic of ball placement. If what I witnessed at those practices ever becomes the speed for which he starts to play with, you haven't seen anything yet.
     
  24. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    I'm going to keep this simple.

    Damn straight I was referring to you.

    Take all their production for granted because they "SHOULD be putting up yardage numbers". I won't. The fact that their producing as the only 2 receiving threats on the field is a positive, not a negative as you make it to be.

    I watch the games so I personally don't value the stats you're using to try to prove everything they do is useless. I understand the points will come (and have in other ways) and that there is a hell of a lot more to it than those cut and dry stats. We're 2 missed FG's and a couple defensive break downs from being 3-1.

    You are also assuming that I'm "googly-eyed" (I'm offended :001_rolleyes:) about their stats and care more about stats than winning. No. I'm simply happy they are producing when called upon. You're looking WAY too far into this.

    Yes I would love a big-time playmaker on the outside.

    Lastly, don't threaten to report me again. I didn't do anything wrong.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2012
  25. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    Getting a lot of yards, we just need more points now so when our secondary wears down in the 4th quarter, we might have a big enough lead to hold it. Still not finding the endzone enough...and now Carpenter isn't reliable enough from over 42 yards to put some points up.
     
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  26. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No, I think it's a combination of things. The offense relies heavily on routes both players excel at. I think both players were capable of at least being 1k yard receivers, but were **** blocked by Marshall, etc. Bess had 700-800 yard seasons playing only 50-60% of snaps, and Hartline was putting up a string of nice games in 2010 before he was hurt.
     
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  27. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    If you like Hartline and Bess, you're going to love Hartline, Bess and Gaffney. Tannehill now has 3 receivers that have consistently delivered double-digit YPC during their careers. I like the sound of that.
     
  28. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    NINJA- A ninja (忍者[SUP]?[/SUP]) or shinobi (忍び[SUP]?[/SUP]) was a covert agent or mercenary in feudal Japan who specialized in unorthodox warfare. The functions of the ninja included espionage, sabotage, infiltration, and assassination, and open combat in certain situations.
    Physical training was also important, which involved long distance runs, climbing, stealth methods of walking[SUP][63][/SUP] and swimming.

    Here is why I think Davone Bess resembles a ninja...The guy can do these things at times.
    Superhuman or supernatural powers were often associated with the ninja. Some legends include flight, invisibility, shapeshifting, the ability to "split" into multiple bodies, the summoning of animals, and control over the five classical elements.

    Black Ninja is a cool nickname for him and some people just love to pull the ever so delicate race card whenever they can. The results are a mindless argument for no reason at all. Wes Welker plays the exact same way Bess does... Would it be racist to call him the white ninja? Brian Hartline is a white man leading the NFL in receiving yards. Is that going to get turned into a race card conversation too?
    Ninjas were known for wearing all black thus the term "black Ninja". Davone Bess is like a damn ninja out there. The way he cuts and gets open and the quickness he displays leads to that analogy. We can all just call him Hatori Hanzo if it makes everyone feel better.

    As for the best receiver duo in the league...Lets just say they look pretty damn tight so far.
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lol
     
  30. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    What happened to "simple"? :headscratch:

    So the below numbers once we hit the opponents' 40 are non-issues for you and should have no bearing on PFF ranking them both in the top 10? It's all s'mores & Yoohoos after crossing midfield is it?

    16% of their total receiving yards
    33.5% reception rate
    4.4 yard avg
    18.5% first downs
    18 YAC
    0 TDsI'm not looking too far into anything. Sure they're playing well for the most part when serving as the solid possession receivers they are, but how well are they "performing" when we cross the 50 and get closer to the money zone? The above stats don't lie.

    Now, are they both doing an admirable job of holding down the fort until we add a playmaking receiver to compliment them who'll make it harder for good defenses to dictate games? Sure. But both of them ranked in PFF's top 10? No. If they were both truly in the top 10 we wouldn't be trying so hard to find another receiver.
    If we're talking PFF's top 10 possession receivers list then I could perhaps see it. BTW, you can keep trying to bait me but it's not gonna work.
     
  31. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    That's not simple enough for you? I'm not going to go in circles just to argue. Read my post again. It's all I need to say.
     
  32. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    You said simple but it ended up being about a dozen sentences. Just sayin.
     
  33. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I love Bess and Hartline but no GM in the world is going to run with them as the top two WRs on any team. Even ours.

    Mike Furrey once had over 1000 yards. Doesn't mean squat. We need a WR who can put it in the end zone.
     
  34. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    But they were the worst WR's in the league.
    The crux is that those guys aren't as bad as everyone seemed to believe.
    Good QB play is a plus.
     
  35. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Two interesting quotes from the scout in that article:

    “They’ve both obviously defied expectations,” said Daniel Jeremiah, a former league scout who now works as an analyst for NFL Network. “It’s a nice little duo they have: Hartline over the top and Bess across the middle.”

    Jeremiah said of Hartline: “I didn’t see it coming. He’s impressed the heck out of me. There’s been nothing phony about his production. It’s been legitimate.

    Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/05/3035280/miami-dolphins-receivers-show.html#storylink=cpy

    I think this scout could be added to the list that finds the "Hartline not a deep threat" and his production is a product of coverage arguments silly.
     

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