Hyde article..Miami's' an underdog at home, expects 20,000 empties.

Yeah, I get it.
I was just being a smart-***.

In the grand scheme of things, I don't have a huge issue with trading Marshall and Davis. What I do have a problem with is doing nothing to fill the void. Especially with Marshall. That trade was done plenty early enough to restock the shelf.
The problem is we gave away decent sirloin and replaced it with a bunch of minute steaks.

 

We aren't going to agree probably because you're basing your viewpoint on perceptions that run counter to objective evidence.

For example, the 49ers had the 9th best QB in the league last year as measured by QB rating. Alex Smith's QB rating (90.7) was the 9th best in the league. Their overall talent did not surmount the play of a "mediocre" QB as you've suggested.

I'm not saying the 49ers aren't more talented than the Dolphins overall, just that the success of teams is based much more on QB play than you're asserting here.

 

It really is somewhere in between. If Tannehill played really good, and all else remains the same, I'm not sure we would be a playoff team, maybe lower echelon. But the talent we have around him, at least offensively, makes it difficult if not impossible for him to excel. We would need at least one or two of our receivers to develop rapidly and be serious contributors. If that happens, Tannehill excels, then yes, I could see the remaining talent enough to take us pretty far.

 

The thing about it is that if you're hellbent on confirming your perception of the team as lacking overall talent, you can construe every single loss in that regard, without considering any of the more subtle factors that are possibly (if not probably) associated with the situation.

Losses indicate poor overall talent, which means the GM, who acquired the talent, should be fired. That's an extremely simple way of viewing an extremely complex situation.

A more complex viewpoint for example would consider that this team last week played very well against one of the best teams in the league, its rookie QB's play notwithstanding, which suggests it has good talent across the roster.

 

Dolphins much like the Browns are really making a bad decision IMO not bringing in some WRs. Both should go out and grab TO and Plax and atleast give their rookie QBs some big bodies who have proven they can play.

Sometimes a coaches ego really gets in the way of a common sense move.

 

I don't know how you come to the conclusion that I don't think QB play is important. I stated earlier that it is the most important position on the entire football team. I also stated that the teams with the elite QB's are better because they have these QB's on their team. I just happen to feel that the good to best teams in the NFL are the teams which have the best overall talent throughout their roster.

I happen to think that Alex Smith was an effective QB in the NFL last year because of Harbaugh and the team he had around him. Because of the 49er's dominant defense, Smith did not have to make a lot of plays at the end of games to win the game. He may be a decent QB for a 49er's team, which is loaded with talent. I just don't remember a lot of fans on this forum wanting him when he was a free agent during this past off season. To me, Smith is a mediocre QB in the NFL and I doubt he would have much success for a team which was not a talented as the 49er's. That is just my opinion.

Your argument also falls short because as I pointed out earlier. The Jets were able to make it all the way to the AFC championship game two years in a row, with Mark Sanchez as their starting QB. The first year he was a rookie in the NFL.

Heck, in 2008 the Patriots almost made the playoffs with Matt Cassel as their starting QB for most of the year. I am sure you would have looked at his stats after that year and stated that he was a quality QB in the NFL and the talent on the rest of the team was irrelevant. Now, a few years after leaving the Patriots and playing for the Chiefs. We are able to realize that it was the overall talent on the Patriots which was the reason the Patriots finished 11-5 that season. Not because Cassel was anything more then a below average NFL QB.

 

If Tannehill played really well (not that I'm expecting him to), this team would no doubt be a playoff team IMO. No way it would be lower echelon.

What's ironic about what you've said here is that the run game looks to be very good, if last week was any indication, which is exactly what a rookie quarterback needs.

Of course a rookie QB needs good receiving targets as well, but I don't think you could find any receiving targets who would overcome the natural growing pains inherent in being a rookie QB in the NFL. Tannehill is going to struggle this year, and it's going to be because he's a rookie IMO, not because his receivers are weak.

I suspect you could research the rookie QBs who have had stellar receiving talent and the ones who have had poor receiving talent and find a non-significant difference in how those quarterbacks played. In fact I suspect they way they played would be based much more on the quality of their defense and their run game.

 

My argument doesn't fall short because there are exceptions to the rule. That's poor logic.

What you see with the 49ers last year was that Alex Smith played well enough to allow the rest of the talent on the roster to win games. He wasn't going out there and losing games by himself, as quarterbacks have the power to do because of the position they play.

In other words, their QB play was sufficiently adequate to allow them to win, which is what playoff teams have and non-playoff teams do not. The fact that you can find exceptions to that rule doesn't mean Jeff Ireland should be fired.

 

If I remember correctly, the Jets had a rookie QB in 2009, along with a first year HC. That year they made it all the way to the AFC championship game. I keep reading on here how talented the Dolphins are. Tannehill won the starting over Moore. Moore was the QB last year when the Dolphins beat the Jets. Therefore I am not quite sure why I shouldn't expect the Dolphins to beat the Jets next week.

It appears to me that some people just want to make excuses for the Dolphins and use the fact they are starting a rookie QB to explain why they might end up having a losing record this season.

As far as Philbin wanting Marshall, Johnson, and Davis off the team. I really don't care who is on the team. I just want a team of talented players who win more games than they lose. As far as whether or not Philbin is the right coach to lead this team in a new direction, is still to be determined. He was not the first choice for the job and he had no previous HC experience. He may end up being a quality HC or he may end up being the Dolphins next Cam Cameron. It is far too early in his tenure as the Dolphins HC to determine if he will be an effective HC or not.

 

This last sentence makes absolutely no sense.

 

It is useless continuing to argue with someone who seems to think a 20-29 record over the last three plus years is enough to keep the teams GM. I guess if the Dolphins go 5-11 or 6-10 this season, you will still be on here arguing that Ireland is great GM and the Dolphins should not fire him. Hopefully if they have another losing season, Ross will view Ireland differently than you do.

 

With the number one defense in the league in terms of points allowed and total yardage allowed, as well as the number one rushing offense in the league, and they still went only 9-7 on the year. On top of that, Mark Sanchez played much better in the playoffs (two games out of three with a 93 QB rating or better) than he did in the regular season (QB rating of 63).

Sure, you can get somewhere without an adequate QB, but you need extremely improbable events to happen elsewhere on your team, such as having a better defense and a better running game than every other team in the league.

Surely you're not saying Jeff Ireland should be fired because he hasn't managed to compile the talent necessary to field the number one defense and running game in the league.

 

Make no mistake about it, my eyes are focused on Tannehill, imo starting him is a tacit acceptance of a willingness to lose games this year in favor of developing him.

 

I think you're right.

 

I agree. When there was no serious attempt to replace Marshall with a WR of close to comparable talent, when Davis gets traded off right before the season for a return that won't bear fruit until next season at the soonest, and when Tannehill was named the starter, it seems apparent to me that number of wins THIS season is not the primary goal of the organization. If however, developing Tannehill was the main priority in 2012, why did they hamstring him with this WR corps?

Compare if you will how AJ Smith responded to losing Vincent Jackson in free agency. He proactively signs Robert Meachem and Eddie Royal. Then we have our very own little Jeffy Ireland, whom after trading away Marshall, goes out and signs Legedu Naanee and Chad Johnson.
It seems to me, one GM "gets it", and one does not. Smith signed those two even though he still had Malcom Floyd, who is better than anyone Miami has already.

 

I agree with Ireland's approach on that, my issue is not drafting a Wr until the later rds THEN relying on waiver claims to bolster the Wr corps, I like AA's game but that is a steep chance to bet a season on.

Heck, I'd have been happy with Mario Manningham.

 

How does AJ Smith "get it"? He didn't sign anyone close to comparable talent of Vincent Jackson. He signed Eddie Royal and Robert Meachem. Those two players combined together through a magic spell aren't Vincent Jackson, and they ain't all that big improvements over Miami. If Chad Johnson didn't career suicide, the Dolphins and Chargers would have a pretty comparable wide receiver corps. The Dolphins would be a bit more possession oriented, but that's not really a bad thing for a rookie quarterback.

I'm not sure you can hold AJ Smith up as a paragon of virtue in anything in this regard. His best weapon at this point is a result of a project much more optimistic than relying on Brian Hartline or Davone Bess to take the next step.

 

Disagree DPate, Hartline is injured constantly, if he goes down we have DBess/Moore/Armstrong as the only guys with any NFL experience at all.

Oh, we have Legedu, sorry, forget he was there.

 

You agree with the idea of signing just Naanee and Chad? That seems to contradict your saying you'd have been happy with Mario. I'd have been happy with him too, for that matter. Free agency is to fill holes, and the draft is to build long term, or so they say. Ireland's approach to the WR position in free agency was pathetic.
Then too, he kicked the tires on Philip Wheeler about the same time as Gary Guyton. Yet he doesn't seriously attempt to sign Wheeler, who now starts for Oakland.

 

Oh good grief. There are only a handful of WRs of Jackson's caliber. So, Smith signs the best he could get. Two guys who are still in their prime and have been solid WRs in the league. PFF rated Meachem a +7 last season and 24th overall. He was +3.4 (35th) in 2010 and +12.6(11th), in 2009. He'd have easily been Miami's best WR had we signed him. If you cannot see the difference in Meachem and Royal, as compared to Naanee and Johnson, all I can do is sadly shake my head.

So, if Chad doesn't mess up, and we had him with Hartline. Bess, and Naanee, that is comparable to Floyd, Meachem and Royal, as well as Vincent Brown when he comes back from his ankle? No way in hell do I agree with that. Not even close.

 

Forgetting Naanee is very easy to do, that's for sure.

 

You said: Does Hyde know Philbin probably initiated the trades for Davis, Johnson, and Marshall??

How could someone "know" that someone "probably" did something? If someone knows something, they know it. If they don't its just speculation.

Sure, its possible that Philbin intitated those departures. But no one knows it for sure.

 

he said it well after Tanne won the starting job, after the last preseason game.

 

Using the term "if" with Chad Johnson, there were already too many question marks with him to count on him being a valuable contributor. There had to be a backup plan in case he didn't pan out. There wasn't.

 

And that's somehow not true with Brandon Marshall?

Your definition of "solid" in regards to Royal is questionable to say the least. Whatever you want to say for Naanee goes just as easily for Royal. The guy caught 41.2% of the passes thrown at him. He managed a worse PFF rating than Naanee in less than 2/3rds of the snaps. He was objectively worse.

Signing Robert Meachem gives the Chargers two decent wide receivers. There's no ****ing way that Chad Meachem would be our best wide receiver. He's never been as productive as Davone Bess with much better quarterback play.

Basically the only part of your argument that I think is even close to reasonable is that Malcolm Floyd might be better than any of our receivers.

 

Just to clarify, I meant lower echelon playoff team, fifth or sixth seed for example.

 

Hmmmm, are we going here?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf...howing-miami-fans-photo-175408799--ncaaf.html

 

I say hamburger!

 

20,000 empty seats will communicate to Ross. Ireland can't like those numbers.

 

I really doubt attendance is any different than it has been for years. Regardless of what ever numbers have been reported, it's been pretty consistently the same since around 2004. If a 1-15 season didn't do it, I doubt this year will.

 

I suspect the Marshall trade was asked for by Philbin, the Johnson cut was made by Philbin, and the Davis trade was made by Ireland after the call from Indy, with Philbin's endorsement, as we saw on Hard Knocks.

I think the Vontae trade was more about his having been demoted, and feeling like what will probably be a high 2nd-round pick is worth more than a 3rd corner who doesn't contribute to the kind of team culture Philbin is trying to develop.

I think the fact that Davis and Gates are no longer here clearly shows the flexibility Ireland has in accommodating the differences between the Sparano regime and the Philbin one. Really the entire Hard Knocks series, in terms of what we saw from Ireland, showed how the perceptions of him by many people here are way off IMO.

 

Is this "discussion" between Philbin and Ross something we know is going to happen, or is this something that's been "brought to life" as some sort of reality by the discussion in here?

I strongly doubt Ross is going to have Philbin "report" to him on Ireland.

I suspect that's the normal order of business on an NFL team. The GM gets the players the head coach needs and gets rid of the ones he doesn't. I mean how else should it work?