What is your impression of Jeff Ireland as a GM ?

if what you are saying about what Philbin wants is true I would say it sure does seem like he is the only one that thinks that and he is the only one with the least experience at a higher up position definitely doesnt have the power to make his desire a reality. sure he has influence as i agree he should. sherman and Ireland have been qouted in expressing the WRs on our team are a problem. I think Sherman who is currently at a lesser role and Ireland who is at a higher role both have more pedigree than a rookie head coach are right about this matter. I believe it might be one of the only things that ireland is willing to go against the grain from Philbin. How else can Irelands comments and actions with chad johnson and armstrong be explained? I am just not happy with irelands failure to address it in the draft and his timing to try in FA.

 

2 other points i forgot to mention are:
1. i didn't expect players and picks for BM or VD, but i would have liked it a seperate deal with any team would have been tried to replace the players that Ireland traded away. I think a good or great GM would atleast try to work on an immediate seperate deal to fill the void he planned on making for a current season for future picks.
2. If Philbin thinks he can replicate the same needs as not needing a #1 WR with his Green Bay offense compared to his current Dolphins offense, I believe he is kidding himself. This is the only thing I have disagreed with Philbin on. Other then that I think he will be a great head coach and i like everything else about him.

 

What makes you think Ireland didn't try to work on a separate deal? There were lots of rumors that he was.

 

And for everyone that keeps bringing up the Chef and the groceries argument, (which is not just the recent poster i've been talking to, but several different posters in different threads) why bring up a Parcell's philosophy? That implies that you buy into Parcell's philosphies which are proven to be a thing of the past. IMO he made those comments as a Head Coach for selfish reasons. I think that philosophy speaks more to his power happy stubburn ways as opposed to the right meaning. He definitely didn't give his protege and/or the head coach of the Dolphins i.e the Chef, the luxary of picking their own groceries. That proves he only made the comments to benefit him as a stubburn power happy Head Coach. Anyone that still feels the need to use the Chef and grocery argument, I would argue that the chef cooks the meal the way the person buying it wants it. What if the person buying (Ross) or the person placing the order (Ireland) is lactose intollerant and can't have dairy products (4's,5's and 6's)? and wants some (1's, 2's and 3's) that won't upset his stomach? Bottom line is The GM while should try to give the Coach want he wants, sometimes its in the best interest of the GM to do what he wants. Specially if he feels the need to try and secure his job. lmao

 

I don't know. a gut instinct. I know he had interviews that didn't produce any signings. That doesn't necesarrily count as an Ireland positive if he can't get what he wants.
On the other hand I think next year he will be in a much better position to get what he wants, i just am upset that there was no real good effort to fix the problem this year.

 

But you admit that you have no real evidence or information to suggest he didn't make a real good effort, just your own gut instinct.

 

plus my main argument is that the smartest thing to do would be to have that deal in place and ready before making a trade that creates a "now need" for future picks in return. if that point wasn't clear in this thread i have definitely made that point very clear in other threads.

 

You are missing the point about the chef and groceries analogy. The coaches determine the style of play. The style of play dictates the type of players you want. Getting players the coaches don't want does no good, no matter how talented the player is. The GM's job is to identify the players that fit what the coach wants to do. Ireland has stated explicitly that is how he approaches his job. No, the chef doesn't need to be the one that shops for the groceries and arguably shouldn't be, but that doesn't change the need for the GM to draft and find players who fit into what the coaches want.

 

That's just not realistic for the VD trade. The Marshall trade was for picks before the draft. One of those picks was used in the draft and the other will be next year. The VD trade was initiated by Indy. Philbin didn't like Vontae and weren't going to start him. I don't even think he wanted him on the team. They got an offer of decent compensation for a guy the weren't going to use much. If you think the deal is a good one, there is no reason to not make the deal just because you don't have another deal to immediately use the picks on. Draft picks are like cash -- one of the reasons you trade for picks is that it is the most versatile currency there is.

 

Yes I admit that. its an opinion that I believe would be evidenced by atleast one good result for now. we don't have a good result for that problem this year. I have confidence that Ireland will produce one or 2 good results to address the WR problem, but that's if he is still around. He may have sealed his own fate by failing to take care of it this year. IMO that would be a shame because I believe he should have at least 2 more years to be given a fair chance IMO. What if he is gone and Tannehill turns into an all star that would make any GM have job security and time to perfect what would make a decent team a good team just by finding the right QB? Like i said, that would be a shame if his failure to fix the WR problem is the reason he won't be here to take advantage of the cap and draft he has set us up for!

 

Brandon Marshall dropping TD passes. Ah yes, I remember it well.

 

This is my impression of Ireland

 

It has reached a tipping point, the usually very patient with JI, Omar Kelly, went off on him a bit on the radio today.

 

You have it backwards. You are the one who is saying others are unreasonable unless they evaluate him your way (see your previous comment below).


I don't care how you do it!

 

Wasn't Finley a guy just getting over a horrific injury ala McGahee when he was a rook??

 

And now I need to walk the Weimeraner. He has been asking as I read the thread...

 

That whiny little weaselly tattletale relative many people had growing up. What makes him more annoying is that he has the relatives buffaloed into blaming you for all of the bull**** he pulls.

 

The next time someone does this and it is funny will be the first.

 

It's also too early to truly judge the Davis trade. If Vontae becomes an elite CB in Indianapolis one could argue Ireland made a rash decision. Likewise, we need some quality with that 2nd round pick. Back at the beginning of the Parcells/Ireland regime we looked smart trading an aging Jason Taylor for 2nd and 6th round picks. Then they wasted the 2nd on Pat White.

 

Yeah no.

I don't care what someone's opinion is on Ireland. Its wrong to form whatever opinion on info you don't have.

Anyone who says he's a good or bad GM and they use the time he was here with Parcells is doing it wrong. That's not an opinion or a feeling. None of us know what level of freedom Ireland had to do his job. We know this year and last year, so base your stance on him on those...you know the facts.

 

This is complete hooey and is the main reason why the "objective" case for Ireland is completely invalid.

In short, it DOES NOT MATTER what somebody else did when you are evaluating Ireland. He is evaluated, like everybody else, on his own merits.

I DO NOT CARE that other GMs passed on Clay Matthews and Hakeem Nicks in 2009. What I do care about is why Ireland didn't gleefully run to the podium with his draft card laughing to himself how dumb these other GMs were, like Thompson and Reese did.

The fact that Ireland was just as dumb as most other GMs is not a positive. It is yet another reason he should be fired.

The only objective way to evaluate the GM of any team is to look at the players he acquired and why he acquired them. What is his overall philosophy to team building? If Ireland has one, it makes no sense.

 

Nicks should of been the pick..

 

How many picks from a given draft should be a hit to constitute competence? 100%? Then how do you quantify a "hit'? GOAT? Starter?

Or do you think we should be convinced by your gut opinion?

 

So what if you evaluated Ireland on his own merits, and every other GM on their own merits, and you compared them all and discovered Ireland has done no worse a job than the majority of them?

Are you saying that sort of finding would have no meaning?

 

It would not. If all I aspired to was to have an average GM then I suppose Ireland would do. But I aspire to greater things. And yes, if that means taking a risk on a talented but unproven guy in the hopes that he will be better then I am willing to do given Ireland's entire body of work

 

It's not my gut opinion.

Vontae Davis is not even on this team anymore. Clay Matthews is a superstar and Nicks is an upper echelon WR.

Let's see if you call GB and NYG and offer a 2nd and a conditional 6th for either guy and see if they're sufficiently "blown away" as Ireland apparently was. I'd wager that they'd laugh their a** off and hang up the phone.

 

It absolutely matters because you have to replace Jeff Ireland with someone if you want him fired.

 

Yes you do. You are trying to replace him with somebody better.

and I fully admit you might hire an unknown who could be the same or worse. But since I have seen no evidence that Ireland ahs the skills to be an upper echelon GM, rather than one of the hodgepodge of interchangeable average/poor GMs, I'm willing tot ake the chance

 

Lol. That's your proof?

Every gm sucks for passing on Brady then. At no point on this site has an avatar and the posts matched up better.

 

I don't need anymore proof than the players on the team bro. And spare me the 2 years nonsense, although he doesn't look good on that score either.

If you can look at this squad and see the foundation of a Super Bowl team then god bless.

 

Yeah spare you the 2 year truth.

 

It's not well-reasoned based on evidence.

A player being traded or allowed to walk in free agency as a standard of success or failure of a pick is an awful standard.

So is the reasonable context for judging a pick the best possible outcome possible, or the normal outcome?

There are more picks in the 2009 first round that aren't worth a second round pick than there are who would cost more.

 

Whatever you say bro. Keep repeating it.

At worst, Ireland was second in command and the chief scout. He put the players on the draft board. He graded them. He was intimately invovled in every decision. Unless he disagreed with every single decision PArcells made then he is just as culpable.

But continue to defend him for whatever reason. I've never seen such passionate defense for mediocrity

 

Its post like this that continue to prove to me the Ireland haters are just coming at this from an emotional place.

If Ireland did all that based on his boss' criteria, that changes nothing for you? Of course not, why would it. Every last one of us is only as competent as our boss is. Every boss that made you do something incorrectly is your fault.

 

My impression of Ireland, sorry, couldn't resist.

[video=youtube;INOeZnfUuIY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INOeZnfUuIY[/video]

 

What does it say when dozens of members of this site in a draft thread, begin to harp on 2 or three names that go on to be very good players...while the Franchise they root for has much more information, passes on all of them and is ultimately proven wrong for doing so?

 

This is more cherry-picking.

Do you wonder why people who have no allegiance to Jeff Ireland, are not related to him or somehow otherwise smitten with him, and who appear to have the same interest you do in the Miami Dolphins' success, don't just agree with you about Jeff Ireland right away?

Surely you don't think we're just stupid, do you?

How do you explain this disagreement we have with what you're basing your opinion about Jeff Ireland on?

 

So last year he drafted based on Tony's criteria, now he is drafting for Philbin, so since both those guys might be dunces it lets Ireland off the hook again.

And of course it's coming from an emotional place. I care about the Dolphinsd and Ireland has failed in his mission to make them a contender. Just because you are passionate about something doesn't mean you're wrong.

 

This site was in love with Chad Henne for a while.

Come on. There's no brilliant expertise going on here.

 

No, you're not stupid. I imagine that you just don't want to face the fact that we made eyt another mistake in choosing who to run this franchise and have to begin anew once again.

It's much easier to believe that if we just give him another chance, that everything will turn out ok. Unfortunately your only "evidence" for this is that Jeff Ireland is just as average as most other GMs. Sorry if I remain unimpressed.

The same situation came about with Cameron. Fin D and other passionately defended Cameron just like they defend Ireland now. "It's only one year" "Porter was a jerk and when he's gone it will get better" "Beck has promise", etc. And of course all those people were proven incredibly wrong.

Ireland has had his chance, both as at worst the franchise #2 and now at least 2 years as it's #1. We are no better today then we were in 2008 and have gotten worse each year in fact. Enough is enough. He's had his chance. He should have been fired last eyar, but our owner is bumbling fool. Can't do anything about that, but we can hope that he sees his error and moves on.