Dave Hyde's take on Bill Polian's Team Building Plan

Agreed.

His teams have been built pretty poorly IMO.
You get lucky enough to hook into one of, if not the best QB to play the game and it will make any team look good.
Manning CARRIED that Colts squad literally. Just as much as Marino had to carry his Phins squads unfortunately.

 

Manning was much more successful than Manning. At least they had weapons and a running game throughout his tenure.

Every GM peaks and then troughs. It just happens. Look at the powerhouse teams AJ Smith built and look at them now.

 

Because you're failing to assign any blame to Caldwell for the poor play in Indianapolis. You say coaching is critical in one breath and then assign all blame for the 2 win season to Polian. Conversely you assign no blame to Ireland for 3 poor seasons. You identify the Colts roster as being talentless without Manning but haven't "proven it". You constantly hound others who say Miami's roster is lacking talent due to Ireland to "prove it". It doesn't add up.

Add to that the fact that you ignore the other strong superbowl teams Polian has built over the years. Still waiting for you to find one non-Dolphins fan who would choose Irish over Polian.

 

Sigh.

Caldwell, coached them to 14-2 (Super Bowl) and 10-6 seasons. He had Manning. Without Manning 2 win season. We lost our starting QB and went 6-6. But somehow the Colts have more talent?

 

A very old rookie owner and an ancient GM isn't the best thing for this team. Ross needs a great football guy to be team president/CEO a then needs to get out if the way. I'm not sure what Mike Dee does exactly, I'm guessing marketing/growth is his main focus. Cant say i can give him or anyone in that front office a gold star.From there we need a contemporary brain as GM. And despite his age, Irish seems to have his roots from the old school.


Sent from my iPhone

 

If we had Peyton Manning, we'd have been better than the Colts.

 

THIS. I don't understand how someone couldn't like that team. Those players complimented each other so well on offense.

Ironically, for all the talk about the Colts defense, it was superb in the playoffs the year they won the Super Bowl. If it weren't for the Pats, they'd have won at least one more IMO.

 

On a team with Peyton Manning, you're worried about the running back?

 

What have you done for me lately.

Let me understand this. You want Ireland gone b/c you feel he hasn't helped put together a talented enough roster and have him replaced by a fired GM who assembled a less talented 2-14 team? If you think Ireland hasn't done a good enough job since 2008, why would you want a GM who's done an even worse job since then?

I've seen how you and others have complained about how Miami used its draft picks, but you'd rather have a GM who drafted the following 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounders since 2007:
2011
1. LT Anthony Castanzo (promising LT)
2. G Ben Ijalana (yet to start a game)
3. DT Drake Nevis (backup)
*** the anti-Ireland group would've gone ape**** if we drafted a tackle & guard 1-2 in the same draft.

2010
1. DE Jerry Hughes (1 sack in 2 years)
2. LB Pat Angerer (decent starter but not worth a 2nd rounder)
3. DB Kevin Thomas (bust)

2009
1. RB Donald Brown (wasted pick)
2. DT Fili Moala (yet to be a reliable starter)
3. CB Jerraud Powers (decent starter)

2008
2. T Mike Pollak (now a backup for Carolina)
3. LB Phillip Wheeler (wasn't a full time starter; no longer with the team)

2007
1. WR Anthony Gonzalez (bust)
2. T Tony Ugoh (bust)
3. CB Dante Hughes (bust)

Going back another 3 years to 2004, outside of Bob Sanders, Bethea, Addai, and Jake Scott, nearly every pick was a bust.

This is the "GM" who will turn this team around?
Polian's last 5 years of drafting garbage in the first 3 rounds was the reason Indy was dog**** w/o Manning.
Respectfully, I'm sensing a grass is greener mentality, but unfortunately in this case, the other side appears to lay a field of dirt and sand spurs.


Compare that to Miami from 2008
2012
1. Tannehill (potential franchise QB)
2. Jon Martin (starting RT)

2011
1. Pouncey (one of game's top centers)
2. Daniel Thomas (verdict still out but looks promising)

2010
1. Jared Odrick (starter; looks promising)
2. Koa Misi (starter; looks promising in his new position)
3. John Jerry (starter; looks promising if his light stays on permanently)

2009
1. Vontae Davis (3 year starter; retained much of his original value in trade)
2. Pat White (Parcells's bust pick)
2. Sean Smith (regarded by Mike Lombardi as a red chip CB; potential Pro Bowler)
3. Pat Turner (bust)

2008
1. Jake Long (All Pro LT)
2. Phillip Merling (backup; no longer with team)
2. Chad Henne (backup; no longer with team)
3. Kendall Langford (solid starter)

(2005-2007 Dallas: DeMarcus Ware, Miles Austin, Anthony Spencer, Jay Ratliff, Marcus Spears, Chris Canty, Marion Barber, Anthony Fasano, Kevin Burnett, Doug Free)

 

So what you're saying Todd, is if he hadn't drafted the best QB/WR combo of all-time he wouldn't have been a good GM?

 

I'll take our drafts the past four..good info.

 

He didn't. He drafted Manning, which was a no brainer. Harrison had been on the team two years prior.

 

I don't think I could contrive a better example of why people need to do research on this topic before they have strongly held opinions.

The Colts might be the single worst team you can compare to the Dolphins side by side, because the Colts are quite arguably the worst drafting team from 2008-2011. If you want to see what futility in personnel acquisition looks like, look no further:

2008:
2nd: G Mike Pollak
3rd: LB Phillip Wheeler
4th: TE Jacob Tamme
5th: OLB Marcus Howard
6th: TE Tom Santi
6th RB Mike Hart
6th WR Pierre Garcon
7th: C Jamey Richard

2009:
1st: RB Donald Brown
2nd: DT Fili Moala
3rd: CB Jerraud Powers
4th: WR Austin Collie
4th: DT Terrance Taylor
6th: QB Curtis Painter
7th: P Pat McAfee
7th: OT Jaimie Thomas

2010:
1st: DE Jerry Hughes
2nd: LB Pat Angerer
3rd: CB Kevin Thomas
4th: OG Jacques McClendon
5th: TE Brody Elridge
7th: DT Ricardo Matthews
7th: LB Kavell Connor
7th: DB Ray Fisher

2011:
1st: T Anthony Castonzo
2nd: T Benjamin Ijalana
3rd: DT Drake Nevis
4th: RB Delone Carter
6th: CB Chris Rucker

The Colts unequivocal successes during that time period basically begin and end with Pierre Garcon and Pat McAfee. If you are generous, you can throw Pat Angerer^ and Jacob Tamme* out there, with Anthony Castonzo being too soon to tell. If you hold the Colts to the standard that many people have held the Dolphins to(How good can a player be if they didn't resign them), you can't even count Garcon and Tamme.

Whatever you think of the Jeff Ireland and the Dolphins drafts, it's not even remotely close to what Bill Polian has done with the Colts during the same time period. But instead we've got serious suggestions that Bill Polian would be a good hire, based entirely off of perception.


^ If you like high tackle numbers and little else to recommend a player
* If one year of pretty good production with Peyton Manning as QB counts.

 

Precisely the attitude that led them to being the worst team in the league without one player.

 

Lol I was typing up the same thing as you did it. Good deal.

 

OK, now list his entire draft history.

 

There are quite a few teams in the league who'd be royally ****ed without one player. No one was shocked the Colts were bad without Peyton Manning.

 

Why?

 

Stephen Ross ?

 

So I'm clear...

A mark of a great gm is building a team that wins 2 games without one player?

 

Sorry gotta count him as a Dolphins fan. Add to that Polian wasn't available when Ross made up his mind to move forward with Ireland. Let's see after this season...

 

They used 4 first round picks on RBs between 1997-2010. Seems he was worried about RB as well. Faulk-James-Addai-Brown if anyone was wondering.

 

That obviously is not the mark of a great GM -- Polian was a great GM because he built 3 separate very successful teams, two of which had very sustained success over a number of years. Polian, like every other GM, certainly had his share of misses and his teams had holes and weaknesses just like any other. A career .330 hitter, who has won a few batting titles (and was runner up several other times) doesn't become a bad hitter based on one or two bad seasons. But there's also no assurance that the next season will be a good one, as opposed to a bad one.

I'd be fine with Polian as GM, but I'd still expect some 2nd and 3rd round picks that don't pan out, some great players that could have been picked but were passed on, etc. It's the nature of the job/beast. I also wouldn't judge his performance on the W-L record of the team, as there are a lot of factors that go into W-L record that have nothing to do with the job the GM did.

 

I can do his entire draft history with the Colts if you want. I'm not doing the Panthers or Bills, because it's hardly relevant.

http://www.fftoday.com/nfl/drafttracker.php?o=by_team&TeamID=9001

By your estimation when was the last time Bill Polian had a good draft?

 

He was a great GM, the game has passed him by. Marino was a great QB. I want Polian at GM now no more than I'd want Marino at QB now.

His past four drafts prove he's done.

 

One-man team.

 

Since when did he draft Montana & Rice?

 

Who gives a ****. We're in 2012. It's about what have you done for me lately, and lately, as in the past 8 years, he hasn't done squat.

What you're suggesting is yet another case of picking up another team's trash and thinking it wont stink. Sorry, but it's the same blind mentality that existed when fans foolishly chanted Kyle Orton, as if he would be the organization's savior.


I'm still at a loss for words that you want the guy who turned Indy into the worst team in the league to be our GM. I'm sure you wouldn't be so supportive of him if you just sat through his 2-14 season of crap.

 

Polian obviously was----- he drafted 3 of them in the 1st round with Peyton as QB.

He's doing stuff you have a problem with, so tell me exactly why you'd want him?

 

To seriously answer your question, the past 8 years he wasn't a good GM.... which is why the team was in absolute shambles and he was fired. Indy had a chance to let Polian build the team around Luck, but they said no way. That says all we need to know.

 

Now who's delusional? You think that the GM and coach are going to intentionally tank a season resulting in them being fired? Come on dude. Look at the talent, or lack thereof, on that Colts roster last year. It's amazing that the Colts were perennial contenders and it only speaks to the value of Peyton Manning. Anyone with eyes who actually watched any Colts games last year could see how overmatched they were. Their defense was not built well. Their entire premise was build a lead, unleash Freeney and Mathis and let Bob Sanders patrol the deep for the 2 games he was healthy enough to play each year. It worked because of Peyton. Without Peyton it all fell apart. That's on Polian for building a team that, more than any other in the NFL, focused solely on the talents of one player.

 

Patriots were 11-5 without Brady. Colts were 2-14 without Manning. If we assume each QB is of equal skill level, which team do you think is the better built team?

 

I will deny your "fact" because it's blatantly wrong and for someone calling others out for proof I would expect you to at least research your points first.

The Bills went to 3 super bowls with him as GM and the Colts went to 2. That's 5, not 7. I tell you what, I'll even give you the 4th super bowl for Buffalo but there's no way you can convince me that Polian left Carolina in 97 and he should get credit for them going to the super bowl in 2003.

PROOF!

 

I mean, I can't be the only one who doesn't see the luster in a guy who's teams made it to 6 super bowls and lost 5...right?

 

Something people should keep in mind is the last few years in Indianapolis Bill Polian took a big step backward and let his son Chris Polian run things...from 2009 to 2011. From the look of it, the apple fell pretty far from the tree and dad had too much of a soft spot for his son.

 

I got to believe he didn't just stop paying attention.

And if Chris finds himself out of work, does he come here if we nab Bill?

 

If it's not Russ Ball or Eric DeCosta, I'll be very surprised.

 

Colts, Bills and ......

Who's the 3rd team?