The Jeff Ireland Discussion Thread

YEP!

I just pointed out a fact...and there you have it..I am rooting for the stadium to cave in and for flipper to get eaten by a whale.

 

You're not.

 

or just ignore when it is done.

 

you fake fan you

 

That damn flipper, always jumping out of the water, all happy while we lose, gets on my nerves.

They should kill him, and then serve him with a bevy of dipping sauces to season ticket holders of over 20 years.

 

I agree.
I think the Jeff Ireland debate has run it's course.
Everyone knows where everyone else stands and nobody is going to get others off their opinion. The Pro-Ireland camp believe what they believe. And the Anti-Ireland camp believe what we believe.
I think at the end of the season, after everything is said and done, we can revisit this topic. Until then I think we're just regurgitating the same crap.

 

I wouldn't say that too loud bro.
Trust me.

 

I'm not saying I'm anti-Ireland, but sometimes rooting for your team to lose results in a win. It's not as much about class as it's wanting what's best for someone or in this case, the franchise.

 

If you think he made a good point then you probably think you're making good points also .

If Ireland was in danger of being fired he probably wouldn't be jettisoning veterans for draft picks. Seems to me he's stockpiling draft picks and clearing cap space for the future. But if your mind was made up long ago I'm not expecting you to be rational or anything like that. If we have a sub .500 season it means we had a sub .500 season. It doesn't mean anyone is getting fired it means we'll be picking in the top 10-12 with 5 picks in top 70 or so.

Obviously we have a hole at WR. 5 picks in the top 70 can fix that, there will be several FA options available as well http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=WR&y=2013. We have guys playing for new contracts, Bush-Long-SSmith most notably, guys being red shirted Egnew-LMiller, a QB we're going to want a look at, a defense that is young and talented. We've got a most of the building blocks in place. It all goes back to adding weapons for Tannehill to throw too IMO.

I don't see how firing the GM helps with any of our current issues and I'd read enough of the anti-Ireland rationale to realize that you guys don't know either.

 

That was a prediction, not a fact.

 

you got a point, for instance that 6-3 finish last season really did more harm than good, not only did those meaningless wins take us out of the Luck and RG3 sweepstakes, but it also convinced Ross to keep Ireland on the basis that coaching was the real issue and not personnel. I'd trade those 6 wins in 2011 for 2 wins YESTERDAY, 2-14 probably gets us Luck or RG3 and gets Ireland canned.

1st/2nd overall pick in the draft, no GM being forced on you, an owner with deep pockets willing to spend, we probably coulda got Cowher, Fisher, Gruden, any available coach we really wanted at that point. aww man what coulda been...

 

no. It is a fact that if the stadium is empty and renewals are slow that Ross loses money and is more likely to fire this fool.

 

I find these thread funny. The only way you can convice someone that likes Ireland that he is terrible is to wait it out and let the losses pile up.

Parcells screwed the Phins, and 95% of the people I think agree. He brought in Ireland and Sporano. That is a verdict in itself.

I bought season tickets the day after Parcells came to the Phins and I thought we were going back to the glory days. By the end of the second season , I could see Henne was terrible, Sporano was a terrible game day coach (the clock management alone made me loose my voice 4 times) and Ireland could not relate to the players and had no idea how to build a team.

I got into many many arguments that Henne was a disaster, and finally gave up trying to convince Dolphin fans that were not at the games. In person you could see how bad he was.

I did not renew my season tickets for 2011. Finally the Dolphins gave up on Henne, something I wanted a year before and fired Sporano, a year and 1/2 after I did.

I hope that Ross finally fires Ireland this year, and I think it will happen, 2 1/2 years after I started calling for his head.

The Dolphins called me 5 times today and left two messages with all kinds of deals to renew my tickets and my answer is the same. You want a 5K yearly investment from me, I want something in return.

Also have not bought any dolphin merchandise in the last three years, but I watch every game, and every minute of the game. I never left the games I went to early no matter if they were way ahead or getting killed and had no chance. I stay to the bitter end and I will always be a HUGE Dolphin fan and supporter.

 

I agree with all of that.

But I think it's pretty obvious that Ireland has decided to prioritize draft picks and cap space for 2013 and beyond over winning in 2012. And yet we have posters screaming for Ireland to be fired for past mistakes or not pouring resources into improving the team this year. It's not they disagree with what Ireland is doing so much as they don't even understand what he's doing, because what he's doing is exactly what they're claiming they want "what's best for the franchise". The difference is Ireland may be willing to accept 5-11 in order to maximize our chances of contending over the long term, while the Ireland bashers are predicting and in some cases rooting for 5-11, just so that Ireland can get fired.

I don't question the passion for the team so much as I question whether or not rage and hatred is preventing other wise good fans from seeing the obvious truths in their face.

 

Yes that is a fact.

But we don't know if that will happen. We could win 10 games this year. That's why your post was a prediction.

 

LOL. Please look up the definition of the word "fact".

 

No disrespect sir, but IMO, looking for a return on your investment, and boycotting games and merchandise, if more continue to think they are entitled to anything more than the team itself, you are creating the foundation for a franchise to leave your city..

You have taken this stance because your not happy with how many wins we have?.... Your lucky to have a team..jmo.

Will you be proud looking into a stadium that is half empty, and being mocked nationally where all your really doing is feeding the rotten culture that's already here, your making it worse because what your doing doesn't just mean it will forces changes in the front office, it could mean much worse.

 

No offense but you have no idea what Ireland is doing or if he is the one doing it. You are making an educated guess.

I judge Ireland by what I can physically see. His draft choices, his player cuts and trades. And the results on the field.

 

No, that's not a fact it is an opinion. Jeff Ireland is a "fool" is not a fact, nor is his opinion on what Ross would do in some futuristic hypothetical fantasy a fact.

My opinion is that Ireland has already spoken to Ross about the team's prospects for this season and the next couple of season at least. My guess is that Ross gave the go ahead for a future based approach b/c had he not approved Ireland would be insubordinate at this point.

Unfortunately, "building for the future" is not a message that resonates with season ticket holders so there wont be any press conferences about it. It's up to us fans to use some common sense.

 

So you are asking me if I am proud to see an empty stadium? No less than how proud I was having to watch what is taking place on the field.

And the Dolphins have already been mocked nationally since Ireland did the whore question.

I know alot of season ticket holders personally that have not renewed, and they had them alot longer than my 3 years.

The empty stadium is a result of people voting with their wallets. I was not one of the lucky ones to get a personal call by Ross.

I see a team that has gotten progressively worse the past 3 years and I atribute a large part of that to personel moves. That's my opinion.

 

refer to following statement/link.

So, yes, considering Parcells was the head coach in Dallas rather than the czar in charge he was hired to be in Miami, Ireland had less say here b/c Parcells had more say, and the final say at that. Plus there's the following quote by Ireland:

If you check out the link I provided earlier in the thread, it sheds a lot of light on the Ireland-Parells relationship IMO.

The new coach obviously felt he didn't care to invest time in developing Gates. If Gates becomes a decent receiver in NY, does that qualify him as being a bust in the league?

I would've rather had Edwards over Steinbach, too, but it's possible Philbin & Ireland believed Chad Johnson represented a better offensive fit and that they might've decided that having just one, 1 year contract receiver is enough. With all the draft picks we have coming up, it makes sense that we'd be able to fill some of our holes with those picks w/o having to use up valuable 2012 & beyond cap space on more expensive 2012 Free Agents. B/c we're doing it this way, IMO it makes it more feasible to bring in a couple true impact FAs in 2013 b/c of the cap space we're affording by not making any rash moves in 2012. I think that's why most of our 2012 FA signings pose little risk to damaging our future cap space---- b/c all of it was done on purpose to provide a huge offseason next year. All those picks & cap space in 1 year will provide a ton of freedom and flexibility to where we could do considerably more damage than normal.

That's fair, and it's my opinion that the player is only worth what he's currently worth, not what you paid to get him. Plus a player can't be dominant when he's sitting on the bench b/c he's suspended for showing up drunk/hungover and when he starts the season out of shape and with resulting hamstring problems which don't do our coverage any favors during the first handful of games. Then he follows it up by showing up this year out of shape and displaying more inconsistency by drawing a flagrant PI call and Personal Foul in back to back games. A player can only be coached up if he wants to be coached up. Please don't blame Vontae on anyone but Vontae; it's simply not fair. Ireland didn't seem like he sold the idea to Philbin as I recall Philbin talking about how he's not sure if Vontae can get with the program or that he sees him being a part of the future or however he worded it. It sounded like they both agreed with it, which is quite telling IMO. Look, I was Vontae fan from the day we signed him. The fan in me was hoping we'd give him more time to develop, but the realist in me was saying, "He's now in his 4th year and he seems no more consistent, hard working, and reliable than he did as a rookie." I'd almost have to say he seems more complacent than he did as a rookie.

Brandon Marshall will tear it up this year in Chicago. He was my favorite Dolphin to boot. However, the only we we could've kept him w/o being a headache & distraction is if we had a solid veteran QB in an offense that could constantly feed him the ball, which is exactly what he can now get in Chicago. In Miami, he would not have been happy by a long shot, hence keeping him would've been risky. Chicago is a perfect fit for him. Hopefully next year we land Jennings, who would fit well here.

Personally, I'd rather have 2 3rd for Marshall and try to land Jennings next year than keep Marshall and play him in an offensive scheme that cant maximize his production b/c of its spread the ball around design. Honestly, could you imagine how emotional and disgruntled Brandon would be if he were to catch only 70 passes/year the next few years? Recipe for a nightmare IMO. Garcon cost too much. Way too much. Eddie Royal would've been a great signing if we didn't already have a similar slot receiver in Bess. Slot isn't our problem. We need a perimeter guy. Robert Meachem wouldn't have been bad, but I don't see him as the ideal receiver for this offense considering Philbin & Sherman's offense is predicated upon solid route running and the ability for its receivers to play all 3 positions (X,Y,Z), which I don't think fits Meachem as I believe he's more relegated to the flanker role. I'm not so sure Manningham & Lloyd represent the best fits for our scheme either considering we can instead use a 2nd rounder to fill the #2 receiver spot but for $3-5 million less per year than those three. If it works out that way, it's a smart move, no?... and it'd allow us more cap space to go after Jennings, Wallace, or Bowe. $45-55 million for either of them plus a 2nd round receiver seems much more feasible money wise to me if the overall goal is adding a premium playmaker.

IDK, I thought Fischer wanted a destination where he could have more control than Ross was willing to give him, which is probably why he wanted to steal Gaine from us to groom as a GM.

Thanks, and I don't think ill of anyone for disagreeing with my beliefs in a respectful manner. Personally, I think there's plenty to be concerned about based on our recent past, but I think it's more important to know how much young Ireland has learned from the recent struggles this team & organization has faced. If he has, then he might actually be ok. Only this season will tell. He seems to have a methodical plan for the future and next year b/c I don't think we'd have a new coaching staff, new offensive & defensive schemes, a shiny new 1st round QB, a group of FAs we can easily walk away from, and a ton of draft picks & $60 million in cap space next year if he didn't. If that was his plan all along, then there is the potential for a very impressive "best case scenario". I happen to think he's an outstanding evaluator of defensive talent and would love to see us use that cap space on a no-brainer FA like Jennings or Wallace and then dedicate most of the draft to defensive players, especially an impact pass rusher & FS. Or maybe everything's coincidence and he doesn't know what he's doing. I think he has the traits to make a great GM, but at the same time I understand that doesn't necessarily mean they'll translate as such. I've grown to like the guy as a person after watching Hard Knocks, but that wouldn't stop me from calling for his replacement if the season shows no signs of a promising future.

 

No, they didn't. It doesn't take a tremendous amount of perspective to realize that we could have gotten much worse results than they did, even if they were disappointing. Dolphins fans really don't have much of an excuse for not knowing better, either. Being screwed would be getting Dave Wannstedt, Matt Millen style results.

 

He already has.

 

That could be the case. It does make sense considering the moves Ireland has made and the position he put us in next off season.

We'll just have to wait and see.

 

None taken. And yes I try to make educated guesses as opposed to hysterical rants. Sue me .

 

Regardless of the topic, I love watching new comers try to argue with Section lol

 

You don't need to be new to appreciate that experience. I've moderated high school debates before and it's still jarring.

 

okay...if the stadium is empty and Ross loses money he is more likely to keep Ireland.

Happy?

 

Yeah I get it.
But it's still going to be the same sh*t. Each side bringing up the same arguments over and over and over and over again.

 

We disagree on the subject.

While he comes of as brash and cocky, it's because he is right more times than he isn't. Not always, but his batting average is definitely high.
Basically, if he is stepping in to the debate more often than not he has a clue what he is talking about.

 

It wouldn't be the regular season if we weren't arguing the merits of Jay Fiedler ... John Beck ... Chad Henne ... Tony Sparano ... Dave Wannstedt ... etc ... etc ...

 

I understand if it comes down to a monetary situation, but I believe that fans in this game who vote against with their wallets will eventually get you no team to be pissed off at..

Do you not agree that you and others that you know who are boycotting because you have a problem with your front office, could have a reverse affect from what your trying to do?

 

Let's just say his enthusiasm is contagious.

 

sorry...but you set me up perfectly.

I was on a panel of questioners in a collegiate debate

I win again. lol

 

Really, it is to early to tell, I do think if they stick with THill then Ireland gets another yr.

Saddle the GM with a Rook Qb and then demand we win right away?

I've seen more reasonable 3 yr olds.

 

not to repeat myself..but I was arguing FOR Ireland this time last year.

 

Exactly. IMO Ireland should be praised for helping put us in the position where we have a slew of high draft picks and $60+ million in FA money to work with, especially when it's during the offseason following a full year with a new HC, new offensive & defensive schemes, and new franchise QB. I couldn't draw up a more perfect scenario if this were Madden. I can understand fans desire to win now, but this is a rare case where I firmly believe it's more prudent to hold off the way we did, give ourselves a year amidst all the team's newness to better assess the team and better prioritize our needs, let the cap space build up, and then go crazy with it all next year when we can be more precise with our moves. (I'm not sure if that $60 million includes the $7.0M in rollover from this year)