Does Tannehill Stare Down First Read, Any Correlation w/ Tipped Passes?

Yep, and if you noticed, he also was skittish when the Texans went to full out blitz looks.

Easier to repeat over and over "No talent at Wr"

Perhaps, yesterday though it was mostly Tannehill playing badly.

 

I think badly is a strong word... playing like a Rookie is probably more accurate in my opinion. He looked inexperienced. He looked good when he was doing the right things, but he also looked sloppy and when the game started to get away from him in that 2nd quarter he looked a little in over his head. There was definitely a stunned and dazed period there, and that's something that he has to work through.

 

I read somewhere, that JJ Watt was quoted as saying they knew the quick pass was coming. As a defensive line men, if you know the quick pass is coming and you're not going to get a sack the next best thing to do is tip the pass. If this is true, then you better expect the Raiders defensive line to do the exact same thing. Keith Sims said that the offensive linemen have to engage immediately on these quick pass plays.

How much of this is Tannehills fault? I'm not sure. I do know that if the oppossing d-line knows that you are setting up for the quick pass that it's not going to help your cause much. A question I had, why were there no roll-outs or more play action to help out with this?

 

They know because of the depth of the drop the QB takes. A three-step drop equals a quick pass.

 

Yes he stares down his receivers, he did it in the preseason games too.

 

Correct, that was kind of my point. The Raiders will know as well, and if the offensive line isn't engage we can expect the same result. Again, how much should we expect Tannehill to notice whether or not a defensive lineman is engaged is something I don't know the answer to.

 

3 step drops make it fairly prohibitive for a QB to be looking off a receiver.

Also, Tannehill isn't without fault on those tipped passes, but if there's a quick set-up coming the offensive line also has to make sure they've engaged their man.

This is going to be a problem until Tannehill and offensive line improve their games and we upgrade the receiver situation enough to allow for more flexibility in the offense.

 

Will be better off letting THill off of the leash, 3 step drops and leaving him in the pocket is a recipe for stunting his growth as a Qb.

He is large and mobile, don't chain him in the pocket just yet.

 

As pointed out, I think we're confusing 'staring down receivers' with a quick-read 3-step drop offense. Not sure most of these plays are expected to go through progressions.

I hope to see some deeper drops and roll-outs next game to combat this problem.

 

I think Tannehill's first pick was the direct result of staring down his receiver. I think the other two that were tipped at the line of scrimmage were a combination of several factors. Most of which have been covered already. But, IMHO if he would learn to incorporate a pump fake into his delivery, it would help to minimize the frequency in which opposing D-lineman will get a hand on the ball. Done correctly, it would also help his receivers uncover. Did anyone happen to see the Steelers/Broncos game last night? Ben Roethlisberger has to be the best at the pump fake right now. Of course, Peyton ain't too shabby at it either.

I think a lot of this is the mere fact that Tannehill is raw and needs time to develop. But, coaching and play calling also play a roll. I would hope to see more roll outs and play action next Sunday.

 

That's exactly what's happening. I don't think the concept of the WCO has sunk in, probably because Dolphins fans are so used to run-heavy plodding playcalling coupled with "I give up" checkdown passes.

 

Part of it is a tendency to stare down receiver. Part of it is linemen not doing their job on quick passing. Part of it is Tannehill not being mindful of his passing lanes, which is a vision and decision making thing.

 

I think another part of it is J.J Watt is just awesome. He deserves credit.

 

It's hard not to give Tannehill some blame. If it keeps happening, you need to adjust. Truth be told, I'm glad the problem happened early and is so glaring that it can't be ignored. Then you move on to the next problem, and so on.

Gonna be a long season, but that was expected.

 

You just promoted fail forward fast.

 

Yes, he does. He was in beast mode yesterday, for sure.

I also heard something to the affect that he watched Hard Knocks in an effort to learn more about Tannehill, his cadence, tendencies and so forth. I think it's safe to say it helped.

 

From the guy who was against drafting him. Easy tto find a nnot perfect game & say see i was right, shoulld have listened to me

Tannehil was wildly inconsisteent but had good moments & didnt look lost. He was playing a very good D as well

 

Yes he does. He's not only the best in the NFL at getting his hands up and deflecting passes, he might be the best I have ever seen at doing it. The reason I compare Bjoern Werner to Watt a lot is because of his tendency to bat passes at the line.

 

Calling it like I see it JMH, if you'll notice in the PFF thread he only threw a handful of passes that went over 10 yds, of those he was 1 for 6, he did not play very well at all in this one.

Not saying one gm and the book is closed on Tannehill, as if anything I hope this staff can eval film and make adjustments better then the prior regime, there were some good things but mostly it looked like a 3 step drop and out for him is not a good approach so far.

 

I mean, it's obviously been a problem for the guy going back to college. For whatever reason, it's still happening, which means it was either ignored or Tannehill just hasn't improved at it yet. Better for it to become so glaring that it can't be overlooked.

 

The 2nd part of your statement is correct. But I think Tannehill, Sherman, Philbin, and Taylor should be very concerned.

Because Oakland is going to try to do the same things Houston did and every team thereafter until it's fixed.

I think he should've been moved around more. More rollouts, more playaction 5 and 7 step drops as our running game was working. I think the fear of our Oline not being able to block caused our gameplan to be mostly 3 step drops.

 

My few opinoins.

We need to start opening up some passing lanes for the guy, he needs to step up into those lanes. He does stare down his reciever, but on a 3 step drop its going to be hard for a rookie to look people off.

We need to use the 3 step drop pump fake. The D-Line and DB's were all over our short passing game yesterday. We have to take some shots just to keep them honest. Pump fake that quick pass, send it deep. If the D-line is in the air on that pass fake they arn't rushing.

O-Line needs to keep the hands down, I know that Martin was the blocker of at least 2 of the deflections needs to do a better job.

Give the guy some time. He faced one of the best defense's in the league. Got passes batted by a great player. Our offense looked better IMO yesterday against a great defense than I can remember. Reggie was running the ball like a beast, we actually were haning onto the passes, O-line did great in run blocking. I'm more excited after the game than disappointed, I expected us to look much worse with the lack of talent we have.

 

Sorry RR, couldn't resist.

All kidding aside, I agree...they do have a great Dline. Great D all around IMHO.

 

Soo is luck a concern? He threw 3 ints & lost fumble? Yes tannehiilll has concerns to work on but he made 1 bad decisionn, he knew where to with the ball.

It was 1 game where he never quit, never wavered, DID NOT come unglued.

Seems to me alot of rush to juddgment IMO

 

I see three things that lead to those tips. In order of importance.

1) Offensive line allowing blockers to disengage. Watch the last JJ Watt tip again, and the final tip on fourth down at the goal line. Both instances the lineman allowed the defensive player to disengage his block, stand, wait and time his jump. This absolutely can't happen. Some balls will be tipped, but you can't allow the defense to stand there waiting. You engage them, chop the arms and don't allow them to leave their feet. You can prevent many many tips this way.

2) I'd like Ryan to get maybe a half step deeper on his drop, there is nothing wrong with his trajectory in my opinion but it would improve a lot if his drop took him a little deeper into the pocket on those short drops.

3) Route spacing. In my opinion the ball should never be flying directly over the defensive end like that so many times. In this scenario A,B, or C needs to happen:

A: The route is run further inside to allow a throwing lane between the DE/DT instead of over the DE's head.

B: The route is run more towards the edge allowing the throwing lane to be out wide of the DE.

C: The RT/LT needs to allow the DE further up the field. Force him to come wide from the outside, Tannehill will have the ball gone before the DE arrives anyway on a quick drop. So deceive the DE.

 

Pretty much this. I'd like to see more rollouts and playactions next game.

 

I thought they tried the rollout on a 3rd and Goal situation yesterday specifically to give Tannehill an open lane. I believe it was on the first of the two failed Red Zone drives in the 4th quarter. Not sure what the hell happened on that play.

 

someone posted in another thread that houston also led the league in batted passes last year...curious to see what happens against oakland...at least JJ Watt is not playing

 

I think you have to move the pocket simply because right now, he's having issues with passing lanes. He needs to learn though, so I can understand why they would keep him in the pocket.

 

I think its a situational thing.

Speaking of Henning, Sherman reminded me of him in some ways.

 

I agree but also disagree. Yes he needs work with passing lanes but at the same time, he has to throw the ball where the route is. If it's directly behind the DE there really isn't anywhere else he can throw it. The pocket while strong was sufficiently small enough to prevent much movement IMO.

 

I think that RT is skilled enough that he can throw from a different angle if he sees the DL jump. A guy like Devlin might not have a strong enough arm to do that but RT certainly does. I think it's mostly about his vision. RT seems to keep the eyes downfield and since he was so tall he probably never concerned himself with the DL much. A guy like Russell Wilson probably learned early to use the passing lanes. I actually think that it's just something that RT has to focus on a bit. A game against the NFL DL that bats the ball down more than anybody else will force that focus. There are some things that can be done to help him, like varying the depth of his drops, rolling him out and maybe even using a cut block on the side of the first read, but mostly it will be on RT to learn to use the passing lane and vary his passing angle when necessary.

 

Not really IMO. Reasoning:

1) You shouldn't be pump faking in traffic regardless of your hand size.
2) If someone swats the ball while you have it in a throwing motion it doesn't matter how big your hands are, the ball WILL come out.

 

To add to that last post, I think hand size is extremely over valued. It's more about hand STRENGTH.

For example I have fairly large hands myself, but can barely palm a basketball with my right hand while it's much easier with my left. Both hands are the same size, however for whatever reason one hand has much stronger fingers and all around muscles. I've seen people with much smaller hands than myself palm a basketball as well.

The same can be applied to a football in my opinion. It's about how strong the muscles in that hand are, how tight the grip is. Not how much of the ball your hands can enfold.