Karlos Dansby, Reggie Bush talk Vontae Davis trade

No I don't. He is young and still improving. He hasn't reached his peak yet.

 

I'm glad Deion Sanders was brought up.
The difference here is, showboats and/or smack talkers like Deion Sanders & Shannon Sharpe worked their butts off to become the best in the game, and when they got there they worked just as hard to stay there. The mentality on their teams were, "If you want a chance to beat that guy and take his job, not only do you have to be as talented as him but you have to work as hard, too."

With Vontae it's, "You don't have to be as talented, but if you work harder than he does you could steal his job".

 

So when we start losing, then what?

 

People on Philbin's radar to trade.

Dansby

Bush

Long

"I can't have players undermine me in this so called leadership council"

I really look forward to sucking for the next 4 years if that happened.

 

lol. Ok. 4 training camps, isn't enough then what is? 5? 13?

 

Who cares what they thought of him. It didn't interfere with the Super Bowl culture SanFran & Dallas had going on IIRC.
He was a dedicated professional when it came to preparing for the game.

 

My point was that Vontae's character issues are seriously overblown. Many here are calling the guy a horrible teammate to justify the move. Was he a little immature? Yeah, like a lot of guys in the NFL, he was a little immature. Huge news there. And again, Ireland knew who he was getting when he drafted this guy. So, yeah, if I'm Dansby or Bush or whoever I'm pissed that I've worked my *** off this offseason while our GM and owner say we're not rebuilding and then a 1st Round pick from 3 years ago gets traded for a 2nd Rounder. And I can almost guarantee they're not alone in feeling that way.

 

Thank you. Another very good and well thought out post by you in this thread. I basically agree with it all.

 

You'd believe Vontae started it, if you live in a fantasy world.

 

And producing at the level Deion did lets you be an *******. Barely being the best CB on our losing record team the last 3 years doesn't let you get away with showing up consistently out of shape. I'd be more pissed if I was Bush who has busted his *** all day every day and a guy who can't be bothered just shows up and starts and only moderately produces.

 

No, he wasn't. That's what you're not understanding. He wasn't. He was a horrible teammate and you wanna know what? It didn't ****ing matter. Not one bit. Wanna know why? Because none of that matters when you're good.

If Vontae Davis was traded because they simply don't think he was very good, fine. They're wrong, as usual, but fine. Trade him. But if he was traded because of a "culture" thing? That's just plain stupid.

 

Well now, isn't that special? Such an honor.

 

I could care less what someone did in Little League TBH.
What stories? You mean like the ones where he would go home after practice and continue busting his *** to get better?

.... or do you mean the story about the highly talented 1st round cornerback who became a HOFer & won some SuperBowls when he could've very easily been an underachiever getting by on talent alone?

 

I reckon that'd depend on one's perspective.

 

And their demands were met in a certain regard....see the new CBA.

 

LOL I'm done guys. Have fun.

 

Probably true, and I'm glad HK may show us more. I also agree that being immature is different than being a cancer... but most championship teams have more high-character and high-work-ethic guys and very few immature ones. Also, championship teams that DO have immature guys seem to rotate those guys in and out every couple years... maybe they get tired of the guy, or having an immmature talent who is new, he is less likely to be a problem than an immature guy who has been there 6 years.

 

So, you have studied it and determined that the overwhelming majority of teams, perhaps 2/3s, miss on half of their 2nd round picks?

 

Dont pull the trigger on that finger, bro. It's not worth it.

 

And I would venture to say there's nothing to "solve." All of this is positive progression IMO.

 

Deion wasn't good. He was elite.
I'm sorry, I like Vontae, but for you to compare him to a HOFer is quite silly.

And it's not just about culture. It's about culture, value of the trade, not fitting in with the coach's philosophy, and the fact that he likely wouldn't be re-signed in 2 years, meaning that if we rejected the trade we'd be valuing 2 years of Vontae (whose light has yet to come on) more than a 2nd & 6th round pick.

 

Well the guy is injured and has been injured for 3 weeks now, so is not like you can read anything into him not playing He dod not play because he could not

 

Two things:

If a guy has some small strikes against him, then not being on the field doesn;t help his case.

Also, GMs sometimes use an injury and hold the player out a little longer saying they are being 'Cautious' while they are shopping them, or auditioning their backup to see if he could handle starting. Or she, if it's a woman.

 

Anyone watching that play could see it should have been offsetting at the worst. He came off the field, Philbin asked him what happened and he told him. Davis later could be heard talking about it on the bench, in that the whistle had clearly blown and Smith was still blocking him, and he couldn't get off him. (That was probably because Smith was holding him too). So, what should Davis have done? Drop to the ground and curl up into a fetal position and hope that awful nasty Steve Smith shows him some mercy?

 

Deion was a headache when he was elite. Vontae is a headache with the potential to be great. There is a huge difference.

And if he truly showed up to practice drunk last year - and then out of shape this year, I really struggle to believe he is ever going to put it together on a consistent basis.

 

Yes, but there are different forms of immaturity. Michael Irvin used to party all night then show up to practice. But when he showed up to practice he would give 100% and dominate everyone. Its not just about being immature, its about being the type of person that takes responsibility for yourself.

 

WTF are you blathering about. You make no sense. You make sense. It's eggplant, not the eggplant-tomatoe years, orgasm *ock.

 

That is very highly debatable.

 

I think we should trade all of our 2nd round picks for 5th round picks.

 

Sounds more like all fours were called for.

 

Cocaine is a helluva drug.

helps you practice on zero hours sleep.

 

Not to be picky, but he was drafted 3 years ago. 2012-2009 = 3. He has 3 years under his belt, not 4.

While he may or may not become an All Pro someday, is was still our best cornerback right now. To help us win games. This season.

 

Its absolutely unfair to brand Philbin as a lump. We have yet to play one game that counts. Besides when you constantly change front office and coaches you become Detroiit . There has to be continuity. Ireland however needs to be stripped of veto power over personnel. you need some one over him a savy personnel guy and then you need to give Philbin the veto power. Later you can ease Ireland out. Marshall does not feed the WCO Ocho is out of gas and Vontae is not only immature and irresponsible , the fact is that we are going to be a zone coverage team most of the time and that is Vontae's game.

Ireland's 'crime' is that he did not replace Marshall and did not get a replacement for Vontae either, (this is not to ignore his other mistakes this year like not getting a WR, picking Egnew who IS a project, in the third , etc) However, if you fire Ireland now or at anytime before you know what you have in Philbin you are making a huge mistake. Not only are you going back to musical chairs at GM and coach but you are missing on the very likely chance that Philbin is REALLY GOOD. So I say strip him of the veto power over personnel and either give it to
another personnel guy or to Philbin

 

Charles Woodson had similar issues and he turned out OK. Just sayin.

And even if Vonate doesn't "put it together", he's still better than 80% of the DBs out there. IMO it's more about Sean Smith and choosing to give him a big contract instead of Vontae b/c we cant give big contracts to all of our defenders while also building the offense around Tannehill.

 

...and your job.

I think sometimes some people forget that's what these guys have -- a job.

We're watching a game, but they're doing their job.

 

Which is why the players are pissed. And they should be. Coaches too. Because Mr. 2nd round pick won't be doing **** for us this year.

 

Smith was given a chance to change after he was relegated to 2nd string behind Jason Allen of all people.
Davis wasn't put into the same position until this camp, and was sent packing before he had a similar chance as Smith.
Last season, after the lockout, both of them showed up out of shape. Both played poorly early in the season.

 

No one offered a 2nd for Smith.

 

OH come on! Philbin is not doing anything as far as personnel, that Shula would not have done as well