Karlos Dansby, Reggie Bush talk Vontae Davis trade

I read about the Colts contacting Ireland http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2012/08/the-difference-between-colts-dolphins.html and upping the offer several times until Ireland said yes. That's a far cry from Philbin expressing displeasure with Vontae and Ireland trading him as a result. That's speculation too, and it makes no sense IMO.

 

All fans? Do you include yourself in that?

 

No, just you.

 

Again, I admit to not reading that article from Mr. Douchebag.
I was wrong about the circumstances around the trade.

 

Nah, like I said, none of these are new concepts that were suddenly thrust upon the world by Joe Philbin.
It's is a WEAK & cowardly argument on your part to try to make it seem as though my beliefs, ones I've had for years, are that way b/c Philbin suddenly says so.

WAKE UP! We're not running a Dollar General here with a bunch of poorly paid employees who have no reason to give everything to their store; it's a billion dollar organization with players that are paid millions!!! When we pay them that much, we can f'n demand that much in return. There ARE talented players (lots of 'em) around the league and in college who ARE professional, responsible, & dedicated in their approach, so stop trying to insinuate that what Philbin is demanding is some crazy, unheard of pipe dream.


See, you're problem is you seem to think this is just like a game up pickup football where it's only about talent, when in fact it's a professional job, one where having great talent doesn't necessarily mean squat b/c you know what----- other teams do too, and I don't recall Marshall & Vontae helping us to not have 2 sub 500 seasons.

 

Jake Long and Cam Wake also helped us to two sub .500 seasons.

 

At what point do we sit back and realize this franchise has squandered 2nd round picks for years?

 

IMO, what determines which of the above approaches you use is how established your team culture is.

On a team with an established culture, questionable players can be added without disturbing the team. See the New England Patriots and Chad Johnson, for example.

On a team that's establishing a culture, like this one, the direction of the team is tenuous, and IMO questionable players should be avoided or given a very short leash if in fact they're taken on (i.e., Chad Johnson on this team).

 

As soon as you understand that it is the case for the overwhelming majority of NFL teams.

 

This is Philbin's first year. Either you believe you can teach him, or you don't.

 

I don't care about Steve Smith.
Vontae came off the field complaining & trying to justify that he did what he did b/c he felt Smith was blocking after the whistle.

That's yet another demonstration of his immaturity, irresponsibility, and inability to fully control his actions, and it cost his team a 15 yard penalty. Plus it happened after being demoted, a time where his level of cognizance should have been at an all time high.
Sorry, Marve, but I have a concern with stuff like that. It's showing me that he's not "getting it" or even making strides to get it.

 

To me this is a whole lot of mountain out of a molehill. Dansby or Bush aren't going anywhere because of what they said. If they are gone next year, it's for a whole set of different reasons than this.

I didn't like the VD move, but it's water under the bridge. I really hope we have a different GM next year that can acquire the kind of players Philbin wants, because if he's given a chance to build the team the way he wants, I think there's a pretty good chance he can turn this team around. Don't tell me he doesn't know what a winning team is made of. He came here from one of the best run organizations in football, and there is no doubt in my mind that he is a very smart dude.

 

Deion Sanders was the most immature player of all-time.

 

I fail to see any correlation here...... nor any logic in your post for that matter.

 

Well that makes no sense. Everyone can be reached then?

 

My concern is that you have notable players mouthing off and we haven't even played a game yet. Imagine if we start losing.

 

Was he consistently top of his profession or was he like Vontae?

 

One player. One player mouthed off.

 

No he wasn't. Those 2 aren't even in the same zip code.

 

Karlos Dansby can go as far as I'm concerned. He doesn't fit in to the future being 31, and he's getting paid way too much money for the disappointment he's been, especially last year where he came in overweight and sucked for much of the year. To top it off, this is the 2nd time he's felt the need to open his big mouth about a roster move this offseason. Get what you can for him.

 

If you believe that, then...I don't know what to say.

 

Not sure your point - should the team just stop using 2nd round picks because they haven't had success? Especially when what allowed Vontae to be traded was that we have a better player at the same position...who was drafted in the 2nd round.

 

Meh, this isn't the first or last time players on a pro sports team will not like a trade. Most of the time the player going is either popular or at least a valued team mate (if he wasn't he'd just get cut), but trades happen all the time and players know its part of the game. The comments here seem like the usual, "hey he was a good player and I liked him but management runs the team" comments from a player about a trade, no big deal and certainly nothing to run Dansby or Bush out of town for. I do think the coaching staff feels like there are problems on the team with under performing players and it doesn't surprise me that some of the players are elsewhere right now.

 

I'm glad to see that someone around here isn't living in denial. Thank you.

 

I hear players don't like tough practices I guess we shouldn't do those either.

 

Can you explain why you believe this?..... or is simply b/c he had a lot of swagger & showmanship? b/c I wouldn't label that as immaturity in the sense that's being mentioned about Vontae. Deion was an extremely hard worker who made his teammates better; he wasn't an underachiever failing to meet his potential & talent expectations.

If you want to make excuses for Vontae's actions, then that's your choice, but the last I checked, Deion Sanders is a HOFer with multiple SB rings while Vontae is a past 1st rounder who 4 years later is still being given the rookie label of "well, when the light comes on he could be an All Pro some day".

 

I've met Deion a number of times as we're from the same town, we even went to the same Little League (not at the same time, though he would often show up).

Deion was the definition of a guy who would simply show up. Swagger? LOL OK. There are a ****-ton of stories out there about Deion. Use the Google machine. It's your friend.

 

And, it doesn't take inside knowledge of Davis to see that he was.

 

You may disagree but Bush coming up and asking about that "player committee' or whatever it is, was a sign of protest. I know it was shielded in a veil of comraderie and leadership. Rah Rah Rah. But they were pissed off at the trade, and that's why they approached Philbin.

That whole corny scene with the players meeting was a joke. And it was held because 1 - There are cameras around and 2 - They were pissed off at the move.

So mouth off may have been a bit strong. Strong discontent would be a better word.

 

I do not recall Deion ever having Brandon Marshall-types throwing footballs at his head because he was showing up drunk.

Seriously, when Brandon Marshall is condemning your behavior, you are a F-up.

 

How do you know that? It's not like the preseason depth chart is something that sets it in stone for the season.
Sean was made 2nd string behind a lesser corner a couple years ago, and he came back to be the starter after a few games and went on to have his best season.
Davis could have done the same.

 

Unfortunately, Twitter doesn't go back that far for me to know if Deion did that or not.

 

Agreed. Someone had asked how we decide 'when' to give up on a talented player....

here's the formula:

How Many Years A Staff Gives A Player Before Giving Up On Him
[(Years Player In League) + (Years Head Coach Has Been A HC)] X [10 for rd one pick, 5 for round 2 pick, 3 for round three, 2 for round four, 1 for all other rounds] / [(Team Wins Last Three Years) - (Team Losses Last Three Years)]

Then you subtract number of suspensions, games missed for injury or discipline.

Vontae's looks like this

[(3) + (0)] X 5 all divided by [20-28] then subtract 1.

15/-8 and subtract one.

Which comes out to -2.875

So Vontae should have been given up on roughly at the start of his college career.

 

Could have, absolutely. But he had not to that point. Sean Smith also didn't have a history like Davis does. Had this been an isolate incident for Davis, one should be willing to give him more opportunity. In this case, its just a sign that his behavior has not changed.

 

My Bush misses you. Come back to Survivor, honey.

 

In all seriousness, read Jeff Pearlman's book 'Boys Will Be Boys' if you'd like to know exactly what Deion's teammates thought of him. He was thought of even less in baseball locker rooms.

 

Deion was widely considered one of the best of all time while he played, Davis? Not so much. Besides, how does Deion prove your case when he played for a number of teams, because he was a headache?

 

Goebbels was the Propaganda Minister. That's all I was referring to. Don't get into a snit thinking I meant you are like a Nazi in general.

You're the one saying Davis has all world talent. Not me. I merely said he was our best cornerback and the team this season coming up will be weaker without him on the roster, because he is a good player. I think he played up to his ability pretty well. Certainly as well as Sean Smith does.

We got 7 seasons out of Surtain and still got a 2nd for him. Well we didn't get a conditional 6th too? Well whoop te do.

 

No, just need to get rid of the person making the picks. And we don't have a better player in the same position. Not even close.