Wallace 4th string a total surprise, usually just hear good things. Somebody mentioned Baker, he may finally not be a phin. Messum, 3rd string, and the phins aren't keeping 3 FB's.
I would presume the listing of 12 starters is because sometimes they'll come out in a 3 wide one back set, and other times in the standard 2 wide 2 back set.
i just think that our new head coach likes to change line ups to see what works during the pre season; as opposed to our old coach who does it during the season. the only lineup i care about is the 3rd pre season game line up which should be the same as the week 1 line up of the season. at that point the only reason the line up should ever change is if injuries happen, trades are made, or free agents are signed.
anything on this depth chart that doesnt make sense is just people getting oppurtunities to see if theyre better than whoever philbin thinks should start if the season began right now.
I think Daniel has a strong hold on the 2nd spot because of how good he looks in camp. So Lamar being behind him is no surprise to me at this point.. The top three receivers, Chad, LN and Bess, no surprise there...they've acted like it.. Fuller ahead of our two draft picks..agreed. Derrick Shelby maybe making the roster is impressive, and a good call in evaluation by Ck..he was on that dude from the get. Like that our oline did some work today against a very good defense...gives them confidence.
First off I do agree with people that Vontae hasn't lost anything YET. But it's also clear he stands very close to losing that starting job. Anyway, my point is this argument that Vontae isn't losing anything and isn't being demoted is REALLY digging into semantics. He was close to an every down corner, as most starting corners are. He played the perimeter nearly every down, about 85% of downs during the games he played in 2011, and 99% in 2010. Now, he's looking at only coming on the field roughly the same amount that Will Allen did a year ago and Benny Sapp did two years ago. Was Will Allen a "starter"? No. Was Benny Sapp? No they were not. They may have technically been on the field on the first play of a few games but the fact of the matter is WHEN all three corners (Sean Smith, Will Allen/Benny Sapp and Vontae Davis) were on the roster and on the field together, Sean Smith took 733 of 757 possible snaps (97%) in 2011, Vontae Davis had 643 snaps (85%) that same year and Will Allen had 489 snaps (65.5%). In 2010, Sean Smith regained his starting job in Week 7, and from there on played 661 of 721 snaps (92%) while Vontae Davis played 715 of 721 snaps (99%) and Benny Sapp played 399 snaps (55%). Clearly there are snaps at stake in this question of who is a "starter" and who is not. In 2010 the two starters were at 92% and 99% participation. In 2011, Vontae was down to 85% participation and now if Richard Marshall claims the job that he's competing for, Davis looks like he could be anywhere from 55% to 65% participation. That's quite the fall from grace. And guys are really going to mince words about whether he's up for a demotion or not? Come on, man. Now, it would be one thing if Vontae was not coming OFF the field at all, but rather was moving INSIDE to the slot during these nickel plays. But that isn't what has been described to us. What has been described to us is Vontae coming OFF the field and then coming back on during nickel downs. I wish Omar would have been more specific in his article. He needs to specify the DIFFERENCE between being a SLOT corner and being a NICKEL corner. They're not one-in-the-same. He says that Vontae is being trained as a nickel corner in case he's ever needed to play that role. He goes on to describe how different the position is and how it's tough to learn. However, the way he describes it, it seems almost like Omar is saying that Vontae is being trained as a SLOT corner. What Omar is saying would be true, IF Vontae were actually moving INSIDE...but we've no reports of that. Additionally, if you're training Vontae at SLOT then there's no need for him to come off the field at all. All that would happen is in nickel packages Richard Marshall would come on the field an man the perimeter corner position while Vontae moved inside to the slot. Then when they're back in base, Marshall would come off the field and Vontae would move back out to perimeter. That's not what is happening. And yes that means Vontae Davis is in danger of losing a prestigious job in the NFL. Don't expect, for example, Vontae to get voted to the Pro Bowl taking only 55 to 65% of snaps.
I thought the same thing when I listened to him speak. So I asked my friend, who is a former scout and Killian High grad. His kids are friends with Lamar as well. They say he is actually fairly smart, and especially when it comes to picking up football teachings. He is not the smartest person but the way he speaks is due to who he grew up around more than anything.
[video=youtube;09KL2HUXE6Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09KL2HUXE6Q&feature=related[/video] See, HE got drafted too... just like Lamar.
Oh, I assumed he was being moved to slot corner. What's the diff between a nickel corner and a slot corner? I thought both came on to cover the third WR in a 3 or more WR personnel package?
I think what CK is saying, is a nickel corner is your #3 CB. But sometimes you have a starting CB, who is a better fit for the slot then your #3 CB, so in nickel situations your starting CB would slide to the inside while your nickel plays the outside.
This is correct. Will Allen was our starting corner for years and played every down, but when the nickel package was on the field, he moved inside to play the slot. Omar seems to imply that Vontae is merely training for that kind of role but the reality is the Dolphins management seem to want to hand that role to Richard Marshall and then have Vontae come on the field on nickel downs and play the perimeter the way Jason Allen (5 games), Nate Jones (4 games), Michael Lehan (4 games) and Joey Thomas (1 game) took 56% of snaps as the nickel in successive games back when the Dolphins had Andre Goodman and Will Allen as corners.
Yea. I can see where Omar is coming from if we aren't running many 3+ WR looks. Then they could be wanting VD to work in the slot, but also give Marshall some work as well. But my understanding is Marshall is a good slot guy, who is a good tackler as well, so why would they want to slide VD inside, seems unnecessary.
It doesn't matter because even if Vontae is being tried in the slot (which in my eyes is unverified), then if Vontae were still the "starter" he would not be coming off the field at all. He'd just be moving into the slot during nickel downs. He would man the perimeter on base downs and then when Richard Marshall comes on the field Vontae would move inside while Marshall played outside. But that isn't what's happening.
Same here. The rest of those things - well there's rookies and such and that will change a lot at backup positions. But, Davis behind Marshall? Wow. Nevertheless, it still is training camp and there will likely be a number of changes after the games begin.
Personally I don't know if Vontae has slacked off so much as he didn't approach this off season any different than he has in past off seasons. Sean Smith is smart, always has been smart, and he knows how to play the game. He's in a contract year. He knows this is the year he needs to step up and take off the water wings, and be one of the guys that he looked up to and followed during his first couple of years in the league (Bell, etc). He's approached this year differently than he approached other years. We haven't heard anything about Vontae doing the same. So the problem for Davis could be that he just looks worse in comparison because Smith is making outward shows of trying to step up and be a star. At the same time, Richard Marshall is kind of the apple of Kevin Coyle's eye. They share Fresno State roots and Marshall was coached by a disciple of Coyle's. They've talked to one another over the years. There's some question whether Marshall would be the better corner than Vontae anyway but it certainly doesn't hurt that Marshall is in pretty tight with Coyle.
This might be accurate....Its not like VD is out of shape or not making plays...from the moment the first practice started, I noticed how serious SS was taking his craft, I noticed his body, so it told a story, a story that it wasn't just training camp where the focus started, he's acting like a bad ***, and There was different movement from him that suggested that his quickness has improved tremendously. I think there is also a chance this is schematic related, and that VD has the skillset to move into the slot, and they will need him there at times, and SS doesn't, hence him getting reps there..
It is refreshing to see you praise Sean Smith... I know the main thing we weren't seeing eye-to-eye on last year concerning the team was him. Well that and Cam Wake's gluts... I just... I won't even start.
Wasn't much to praise SS about prior to this camp.... Hope he was a great year though, he and we need it.
I felt like he was a scapegoat for the secondary mainly in the past... taking more criticism than he deserved.
Well ofcourse, fans HAVE to blame one player for a teams struggles. You do know we went 1-15 one year ALL because of Ted Ginn.
I wanted either him, or if he was already taken, then Adam Carriker. Does that mean I am smarter than 80% of Dolphins fans.
I wanted Willis. He was #1 on my wish list. I wish I could say I wanted Revis, however I didn't know who he was.
[video=youtube;mCwOnq2C2vA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCwOnq2C2vA&playnext=1&list=PL8014DE0515C26934&feature=results_main[/video]
