****Official 2012 MIAMI MARLINS Thread****

Me too!

 

Agreed. It made zero sense.

 

Hanley is hitting under .250 I don't see how trading him for the right package SHOULDN'T be a consideration. Sure he has alright power numbers but he's been a black hole in the #3 /#4 spot.

Not Crawford of course.

 

Best part of this crappy game was the zoom in on the fat Cubs groundskeeper running across the field to the tarp.

 

I nearly died laughing at the site of that. Was awesome.

 

Footage or didn't happen.

 

It needs a gif. Seriously if anyone recorded the game. He was smiling as his fat was jiggling, and of all the groundskeepers the camera man was a douche enough to focus on him.

 

This is exactly what happened... I pray a gif is made too lol.

 

Difference is. Crawford is actually a really good player when healthy. So paying agood lot for a bad player or paying a **** ton for a good player?

I mean, I still agree. Deal didn't make sense unless Saux took a decent chunk of the contract....I don't think the deal made any sense for either team though to be honest.

 

Because taking the myopic view with your franchise player is generally a mistake.

 

This isn't a recent problem or bad luck. There have been times where he looks like a college freshman facing Pedro in his prime. His swings have been UGLY and his pitch recognition terrible.

Like I said before, I wouldn't trade him just to get rid of him. Thats stupid. But if a decent deal came along I wouldn't hesitate especially if it gave us the money to add better pieces next year.

 

I dont think they would want him for free, with us paying the contract.

 

It's not recent, but it's not exactly chronic or old, either.

Basically I think you're a year too early to be thinking this, let alone talking about this.

 

Like I said I'm not screaming for us to trade him. Just that if a great offer came along I wouldn't be totally opposed.

 

All of his peripherals are in line with his career averages. His pitch recognition is exactly the same as it's always been (career walk rate 9.7%, 2012 walk rate 9.8%)

The only difference is batting average really.

 

It's kind of everyone's problem, really. Buck's BABIP is ridiculously low despite his peripherals looking good. Same with Reyes. His walk rate increased but he's batting .270ish. That's how It seemed last time I checked, at least.

 

He's also on pace to K more than any year since his first with us. I hate statistics because while they are most true in baseball, they still lie. His walk % is only a small portion of the story.

I don't see how you can say his pitch recognition is fine when he's striking out and whiffing on pitches that should be in his "groove zone" and generally looking lost in 3 out of 4 AB's

 

He's striking out in 17% of his at bats. His career strike out rate is 16%.

I can say his pitch recognition is fine because it is. Statistics don't lie.

 

Statistics lie horribly.

I accept your K rate. That doesn't mean he isn't missing pitches early in the count getting himself into a hole. Which he obviously has been all year.

You're acting like he's going to wake up and become what he was two-three years ago. He's been slumping for over 162 games over two combined seasons, and I feel like you're trying to justify it by just saying theres nothing wrong and it will go away. I'm willing to bet he stays under .260 for the year.

Even in 2010 his OBPS was very low for who he is, taking a full .100 drop from 09 and nearly the same from 08. There IS a problem.

 

No, they don't. They are what they are.

Also, I don't think you know what I'm trying to say. I don't know what's going to happen. I'm just rebutting what you're saying with facts.

Statistics don't lie. They are objective numerical recording of what happened. It's impossible for stats to lie. There are just people who know what they mean, how they're accumulated and what context they should be used in, and they are people who don't understand what they are and dismiss them on account of "statistics lie." What the hell does that even mean?

 

That they are not telling the truth, Mainge.

 

But that's really silly.

 

Dontrelle Willis just retired, maybe you guys can get him to pitch for you.

 

And not what I mean. I mean that the picture you are painting with them isn't consistent with the picture reality is painting. All a K rate means is that with two strikes he's making contact. It doesn't men his pitch recognition on the first two strikes was good. Once you dig yourself into a hole like that even if you buckle down and make contact it isnt likely to be GOOD contact

I would venture to guess he's been hitting from behind in the count this year more than years past.

 

I was joking, lol.

 

Or your eyes are lying to you. Again, all of his numbers are close to his career averages. His Swing percentage out of the zone, his take ball percentage, his contact rate inside the zone, outside of the zone, overall contact percentage, etc, are all right there.

Reality is that he's the exact same player he's always been with a lower batting average. Maybe he turns it around, maybe he doesn't, but let's not use to hyperbole to make it something it's not.

 

Maybe what I think the problem is, isn't the problem. But there is a problem with something. He just hasn't looked very good at the plate in general. There have been a lot of AB's where he's taken great pitches to hit early and then popped out weakly or something of the like. Im sure of that.

 

Most definitely. Happens to everyone though.

 

Very true. But when you're Hanley Ramirez and everyone is counting on you to at least be hitting .290 and the entire bottom half of your order is struggling on top of it....it gets amplified.

 

Which is why perspective is important.

 

I think Hanley is overrated in terms anyways. Hes not that 07-09 player. Its obvious IMO. I don't know what got into him. But hes a good player, but dont expect that player back.

 

He'd honestly be one of our better left handed batters in our lineup at this point.

 

Pretty much exactly how I feel.

 

Maybe not, but we don't know.

 

Can we find more ways to lose games?

 

Don't tempt fate.

Either way, I think we're realistically out of the playoff hunt at this point, and I expect to see some guys traded away.

 

Honestly we may get better by subtraction....we'd be better right now with Stanton obviously.

 

Three guys almost guaranteed to be gone are choate, Infante and Sanchez. Hopefully we rape any team that's desperate for them.

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say what happened to him is he got paid.