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The Houston Texans...Overrated?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Jul 15, 2012.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I didnt say we were overall better, that's not the comparison,nor what I'm doing in this thread, I've pointed out some things where I think, the first game if the season, the matchup is not as one sided as perceived, and they as a team, with their losses, and their injuries, will not be a better team come week one..on the other hand, week one, with our focus, our offseason, I think we will be exponentially better week one relative to last years week one.
     
  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think "screwed" is a necessary word to describe our receiver unit 2 thru 6 compared to the texans.
     
  3. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    you can have him, I'll take the younger, more athletic, bigger, more proven, better armed Flacco.
     
  4. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Your surroundings as a QB mean alot when your a mid level talent.
     
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Are you saying that Flacco has more talent around him the Shaub Fin-o?
     
  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bottom line...Flacco on the road, championship game, pressure packed, 4 th quarter business, got it done during the game, and made the perfect throw to win the game propelling his team to the Super Bowl, nothing else matters when it comes to evaluating that position.
     
  7. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    For the past 10 years we've been telling ourselves "this is the year we finally take down these overrated scrubs". This will be the year, fellas!
     
  8. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    I was speaking more along the terms of WHY I compared him to other QB's I feel are mid level (Henne for example)

    Matt has an even better running game and IMO the 2nd or 3rd best WR to throw to...AND a solid OL so I would say the weopans lean a little to his side. I have little doubt Flacco could do fine in Houston, hell TJ Yates looked better than most.
     
  9. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Chad Henne is not a mid-level QB.
     
  10. HULKFish

    HULKFish Artist and Scribe

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    I think by the third game of the preseason we'll know if we have something or not. I wouldn't make any predictions of anything at this moment. I am expecting success though.
     
  11. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    The Texans are a decent team. They should make the playoffs in that weak division.

    The biggest concerns they should have are health. Andre Johnson is on the wrong side of 30, and has had hamstring issues for two years now. Owen Daniels hasnt been able to stay healthy. Matt Schaub is coming off a foot injury. They spent so many draft picks trying to build a competent defense, that they really don't have enough depth offensively. Neither at the skill positions or on the offensive line. The NFL season is a battle of attrition, and I'm not sure they can survive.

    This all really goes without saying that they invested heavily in a RB and interior OL. I'm not sure they've appropriately allocated their resources, which will hurt them long-term.

    Not all this doesn't mean they aren't better than Miami. I think they probably will be this season. But I do think Houston has become relatively overrated by the general public.
     
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  12. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    I agree w/most of that. Good young team, imo.

    I don't think they overpaid on RB. Foster is worth what they gave him and Ben Tate has looked good. Those two alone should carry the offense no matter what happens w/their other older injury-prone players. What they really need to see is if Lestar Jean can do what Jacoby Jones couldn't. James Casey can do a pretty good job of replacing OD too.
     
  13. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    If he was drafted by Baltimore and Flacco by the Dolphins I think their careers would be similar to what the OTHER's is now. Cant have crap around you and succeed unless your one of the special ones.

    If Flacco were to be a Brown for example do you think he would be worth a bologna samich?? I dont.
     
  14. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    28-9 Houston.....

    no shot Miami beats them....
     
  15. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Look at Miami's record with Chad Henne and without Chad Henne. It is markedly different. I have a hard time believing that such a marked difference was just by chance. The biggest failure this team has made under Jeff Ireland was holding on to Henne this long.

    The fact that he is going to be a backup for Blaine Gabbert (who was likely the worst QB in the league last year) should say everything that needs to be said.
     
  16. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    Week 1 might be the best time to get them, though.

    A young team with high expectations can often flounder out of the gate, especially if their QB may be rusty. But the reason I think we may have a real shot is Philbin and the new offense. I fully expect the offense to have their ups and downs, particularly early in the season. But when they'll have plenty of opportunity to practice and game plan with their target being a team that isn't going to quite fully know what to expect from them, they might have an edge, at least for one week anyhow.
     
  17. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    I doubt he is the backup for long, just my opinion.
     
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  18. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Idk about that. I can def see Gabbert losing his job somewhat early.
     
  19. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    Henne will take that job over. Unless they have no intentions of winning.
     
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  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    thats not giving any credit to the player, the guy has been pretty good and is on a nice ascending plane for a young Qb..once again, we know he can play at a level at that position, to compete for championships, your not acknowledging any of that.
     
  21. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    The Texans are a better team than the Dolphins at this stage .However imagine the shot in the arm this team and Philbin will get if we finally do the unexpected and beat the Texans.

    I do think its possible.We are unveiling a new offense and defense so we will have the surprise element going for us.Initially they wont know how to defend players like Clay who can line up at different spots and exploit mismatches.

    The unveiling of the wildcat certainly surprised the Pats.
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It's all about team depth not just individual unit depth. They've got such a good team they can definitely get by with some injuries here and there. Depends on the timing of the injuries, really. They used to say the NFL season was more like two seasons, but now I think it's closer to three. They can afford injuries throughout the season but they've got to start getting healthy by the last few weeks of the regular season and into the playoffs. They just need to avoid season enders for guys like Schaub, Foster and Johnson. Unfortunately, Schaub keeps getting hurt.
     
  23. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    By those standards Mark Sanchez is a beast.
     
  24. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Let me put it this way. There are things legitimately working in Miami's favor.

    1. Miami's fast-paced practices should make them unusually ready to hit the ground running in Week 1.
    2. Matt Schaub played about half the year and got hurt, now he's coming back from an injury and he could start out slow.
    3. Arian Foster is coming off a huge year which was rewarded with a huge contract. Historically speaking, there seems to be a dip after that.
    4. This will be the first look Houston (or anyone in the NFL) will get at Miami's new 4-3 defense under Kevin Coyle.

    But there are more things working in Houston's favor.

    1. They're at home. That's a big one. You can't just dismiss that. Gary Kubiak's Houston Texans are 30-19 (.612) at home. They're 18-31 (.367) on the road. That's a huge disparity (.245). What you have to do is think of the disparity itself, and then put it into the context of how good the Houston Texans are expected to be in general this season. The Vegas over/under is set at 10 wins I believe, but I think the common expectation is closer to 11 or 12 wins. Vegas will just rarely actually set an over/under at that level. Even if you take 10-6 as Houston's expected record (CONSERVATIVE), the common home-away disparity under Kubiak implies a 6-2 home record in 2012. So then you look at the Texans' home schedule and you see us, Tennessee, Green Bay, Baltimore, Buffalo, Jacksonville, Indianapolis and Minnesota...do you really expect Miami to be one of the two teams to deal Houston a loss at home this year? I don't think so.

    2. The Texans know Mike Sherman's offense. Mike Sherman was Kubiak's offensive coordinator in 2007. Sherman coached Texas A&M in Kubiak's back yard. I've not really bothered looking it up but I'm sure there's some other links between the two through their backgrounds. There's a reason Miami's version of the WCO under Sherman is expected to look a lot like Kubiak's version of the WCO. It's not just Kubiak, though. It's all of the defensive staff, and players, who have been practicing against a similar offense every day for the last however many years. There's familiarity there which could shave defensive players decision-making by a split second due to recognition of certain plays and concepts.

    3. The Texans have been running the same offense continuously for years, and they've now been running the same defense for a second year. Both machines should be well-oiled, whereas the Dolphins just switched both systems and there is likely to be a learning curve. This should particularly aid the Texans offense. One thing you noticed in 2011 between the Packers, Saints and Patriots who all ran offenses that were abberant even on historical bases, the common denominator was all three had been running the same systems for years, with offensive players who were all familiar with the system. Think about that, and then look at the Texans. Matt Schaub, Andre Johnson, Kevin Walter, Owen Daniels, James Casey, Arian Foster, Ben Tate, Duane Brown, Wade Smith and Chris Myers...have all been playing together for 4+ years. These guys know each other within the context of this offense, and have tremendous chemistry. That continuity is rarely achieved in today's NFL.

    4. It's been mentioned already, but the biggest argument working against the Texans for the 2012 season is depth and injury potential. The problem is, that stuff isn't generally going to apply in Week 1, unless they limp out of training camp hobbled with camp injuries. So far through OTAs and Mini Camps, they've been healthy. Guys are coming back from injuries on schedule and they're not suffering new injuries.

    Overall, I think the factors working in Houston's favor are just more significant, and in the end while Miami may cover the spread (isn't it set at 7.5 points?), they're very likely to lose this game.
     
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  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No, mark Sanchez never played good enough in a championship game, good enough in the pivotal moment of the game, to win the game for his team, Joe Flacco has..This guy is seriously underrated by you..I think you better watch the ravens a bit closer.
     
  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's good stuff..

    I think an advantage for our team is being on the road the first week of the season, I think it's the right place to be for a team that has its training camp in their own backyard,and there are players on this team that know how to play on the road..I think there will be a redemption factor going on with our team in terms of how they started last year, and I also feel like Philbin is the right guy who will know how to get his team to form an identity from the first snap, like you said, I'm not sure it's good enough strait up, but with some of the things that factor in from their side, we might catch em at the right time..
     
  27. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    A case could easily be made that they're catching US at the 'right time'. Think about it. New regime, new schemes always take a while to gel, team usually isn't as dangerous early as they are when those things start to come together.

    I think there's much more historically proven, fundamentally sound lines of reasoning to say that the home team with continuity in their systems and in their players, is going to have an advantage against the away team that just installed a new head coach as well as new offensive and defensive systems.
     
  28. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    I think they overpaid for Foster simply because it's system success more than an individual player success (even though it may seem differently).

    When Foster was out, the Texans never really missed a beat because they have a top notch offensive system. Wade Phillips was the difference maker for the Texans last year, IMO.
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    yeah I get that part, but sometimes the game comes down to who wants it more at that time, I also think this defense has been playing together for a period of time where we won't see that rustiness you might expect..Their ready to play I believe..Offense, sure, that timing is gonna take a bit, but this offense is not just young, their a young veteran offense led by an experienced Qb if Garrad gets the nod...I've just been hearing a lot of talk from our own players about not being in proper condition last year, and how that is gonna be rectified this year, so I expect them to play very hard, with a lot of emotion, and when they do that, they usually come out on top or at least compete at a high level, and personally, I don't think the texans are good enough to take that next step over the pats, ravens or steelers.
     
  30. sloppyjoer

    sloppyjoer New Member

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    I just wanna finally beat these fookin guys. Once. Please.
     
  31. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Not at all, man. Nobody else had the kind of success he had in their system.

    When he was out and Tate was in, there was a very big difference in their offense. Mostly due to the fact that Foster is a waaay better receiver.
     
  32. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Have to disagree, the system is a good one ofcourse but Foster is a special runner. Look at how well he does with receptions.

    Sometimes things are just a perfect fit.
     
  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Forget the 2 thru 6, we're screwed on the 1 thru 6, if the standard is to ask the fans of other teams to name the Dolphins receivers. The only one they might know is OchoCinco, and not for good reasons.
     
  34. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I love your optimism, but I believe the Texans are a far superior team. When they meet in game one of the regular season, I predict the Texans will win 27-7.
     
  35. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Just for reference, the Miami Dolphins gave up 27 or more points twice last season.
     
  36. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Our defense keeps us in it, sack-ff-Td by Odrick wins game late.

    23-20 Phins
     
  37. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    17-21 Phins

    If the season could only start like this. We would get pumped for wins.
     
  38. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't believe Miami starts out 0-1 but I do believe 1-1 is a strong possibility. And 2-1 is more a possibility than most of the media will acknowledge. The return of the 1pm heat and humidity at home should really factor into those Oakland and New York games. That's the fast start DJ is looking for. I just think he's reaching to say that the fast start is going to come on the road to an AFC Championship contender that is consistently much better at home than on the road, and has had all their players working together in the same offensive system for ages. I think that's a reach. But I don't think 2-1 is as much of a reach as people think. Oakland traveling cross-country, having to deal with mid-September south Florida heat and humidity at 1pm, in their black uniforms? As things stand they're not that good a team to begin with, and those are a lot of obstacles to overcome. Then you have the Jets and there's an outside shot they're just going to crumble and flake away like a bad pastry this season. They will also have to deal with heat and humidity they haven't dealt with in Miami in ages.

    I would think 2-1 would satisfy DJ's lust for optimism. I say 3-0 is just greedy and unrealistic.
     
  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    and average fans would know who besides Andre Johnson is on the texans...Kevin Walter?
     
  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I didn't say we were gonna outright win, I've looked at certain variables for both teams, and some of those things give me optimism that it's gonna be a good game, plus I think they lost some major talent and leadership, and they had a serious injury to their Qb which robbed him of his offseason, an injury that took this player off his feet, and when you have the opinion I have for that particular player, missing a whole offseason of strength training will take said player down a notch.
     

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