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*The Official 2011-12 NBA Thread*

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Boik14, Dec 26, 2011.

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  1. Yellow Snowman

    Yellow Snowman New Member

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    No offense, but saying you wouldn't build around Dwight is fail. The guy is an elite player, top couple players in the league. Elite defender, elite shot blocker, elite rebounder, and has developed into a good offensive player. Ok he doesn't shoot free throws....he is a center.
     
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  2. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Dwight Howard is the ultimate support player. He needs to be coupled with a ball handler/scorer for your team to be serious championship contenders.

    His problem is that he is worthless in the last 2 minutes of a game.

    A team can actively seek to allow 1 point per possession in a close game with Howard on the floor.

    But of all the players in the NBA, he is easily #2 as far as effecting a game. The only player that impacts an NBA game more is Lebron.
     
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  3. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    I think you guys are underselling the Nets a little bit. They won't be an easy out. Especially when you consider that Gerald Wallace is the one guy that statistically bothers Lebron James, and Dwight, despite his offensive limitations, is an absolute monster on the boards and defensive end.

    I'm not saying they're better than Miami or even Chicago, but they're not the Hawks either.
     
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  4. dolfan32323

    dolfan32323 ty xphinfanx

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    His inability to consistently be a goto guy down the stretch is mainly why I don't think he is worth the money.
     
  5. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    I think that happens because teams allow him to affect them; that is, they're still afraid of a big man in the post, so they sell out to defend him even though his game doesn't necessarily demand it.
     
  6. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    He's a career 58% shooter, the exact same as Shaq. He's still an effective offensive player and deserves extra attention.
     
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  7. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    A healthy Knicks team can beat any team in the East save one. If they would've landed the 8 seed they just might have made the ECF.
     
  8. Mrtree

    Mrtree Juan Huron's agent

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    Why are the Knicks throwing so much money around for marginal players? I am very confused by their approach.
     
  9. Mrtree

    Mrtree Juan Huron's agent

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    Boston would've beat you guys again. Maybe the Pacers.
     
  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Keep in mind that D'Antoni was a poor fit for that roster, I do agree NYK has good talent, but think the Nets will surpass them by adding JJohnson and Howard.

    Love the Heat, Nets will have a serious threat to us if they add Howard.
     
  11. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle... starting at PG for the NY Knicks, leading them to a 3rd NBA championship.
     
  12. Yellow Snowman

    Yellow Snowman New Member

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    Well he is a goto guy, when they want to run the offense through him instead of chuck up 20 3s a game. He didn't have any good passer on his team either. Turkeyglue is the only decent one and he isn't any good. The guy has evolved and developed into a good offensive player, and yes even better than the overrated Bynum. then the other things he brings like rebounds, defense, blocks, etc. The guy is clearly a max player, unlike most guys who currently get max deals in the NBA.

    Put him on the Nets and they are going to be damn good. You heard it here first......teams, especially a team like Boston and Miami will have major problems with them. Reggie Evans is going to make Bosh and Garnett cry when he starts crashing the boards and team him with Dwight and they are going to be crazy good down low on the boards. Between the two they might average 25 boards.
     
  13. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    let me get this straight...

    Reggie Evans (That Reggie Evans?) is gonna make Future Hall Of Famers Kevin Garnett and Chris Bosh "cry"?

    The reason you don;t "team" a guy like Evans up with a guy like Dwight is that it clogs the lane for your offense and turns you into a jump shooting team. it is why a stretch 4 is what has always been teamed with D12.
     
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  14. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    True Story..Chris Bosh's career high came against Orlando (since been eclipsed) , when he was forced to play center due to Injury.

    He scored 40 and pulled down 18 rebounds.
     
  15. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    If a single defender can make him catch the ball further away from the bucket, hes extremely ineffective. Scoring and turnover wise.

    I cant look at the numbers, but I would be willing to bet Dwight has gotten more offensive rebounds and more dunks then Shaq. If Dwight cant dunk or get a put back off a offensive rebounder, hes pretty lousy offensively.

    Now he obviously demands attention to keep him from doing those things hes very good at, but lets not act as if hes even close to Shaq offensively. Because hes not.
     
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  16. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Even if they didn't sell out to defend him, which I agree they shouldn't, his impact defensively and offensive rebounding and athletic dunks would still have him as one of the most effective players in the NBA.
     
  17. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It does. Because theres a lot more to overcome in NY then in other cities. There is a lot more press, a lot more written about you and every player except the special ones know its a distraction. In that respect it is sweeter because it is tougher.

    The Smith contract is a 1 year deal with a 2nd year player option. Im guessing Smith will opt out because he will be eligible for a 4 year deal at that point. I have less of a problem with this because Shumpert is out til god knows when and we need a 2 guard..unless you wanted NYK to start James White lol.
    I have less of a problem with that then handing Kidd 3 years and Novak 4 years.

    Actually it could be the best thing for them. Maybe they will realize how to build a team correctly instead of being careless with money just because they have cash to throw around. I can only hope I guess....

    The last time we took a step forward was when Dolan was forced to hire Walsh and Walsh told him to GTFO. :)

    Agreed. This is why I would have happily moved Chandler and Stoudemire for Howard. Pairing Melo and Howard would have been ideal.

    I have to disagree. If the Nets get Howard we certainly are not better then they are. If the Bulls get a healthy Rose back, theyre probably still better then we are. Im not even sure we are better then Boston or Indiana (now that Indiana is matching Hibbert)

    Just IMO, I think theyre stacking contracts for CP3's impending FA. Much like the Nets did with JJ I think theyre positioning themselves for a run in that direction. Thats the only way this makes any sense imo.
     
  18. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    I'm not saying Dwight is Shaq, I'm just providing context. He's not Joel Anthony out there.
     
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  19. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    The players shouldn't have to overcome you. And now they don't have to.

    Then there aren't many effective players in the NBA.
     
  20. Yellow Snowman

    Yellow Snowman New Member

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    Bosh is not a HOF'r or future HOF'r so stop. And please don't continue with that because its ridiculous. Back to the original point, Dwight and Evans are going to dominate Bosh and Garnett on the boards. Garnett especially is not a good rebounder nor is that team and Bosh is going to get outmuscled vs those 2 monsters.Reggie Evans is a beast on the boards, perhaps you should watch him more before make these claims. Pair him with Dwight and they are going to own the boards.

    Orlando put a flawed team around Dwight. Yes sometimes a stretch 4 comes in very handy, but other times you can greatly benefit from 2 bigs who can play near the basket and dominate the boards. Its the way the NBA has been played for decades so don't start with every big center has a stretch 4 to be effective.
    Ya early in Dwights career he didn't play well against 2 centers......Perkins and Bosh. this is true. He has since been able to beat up on both though. I agree, since he is a traditional style center he doesnt play well 18 feet from the basket. This is true of all traditional centers so a guy like Bosh can cause trouble shooting away from the basket. But perhaps you should check out what Dwight has done recently, he has done extremely well against the Heat in terms of points, rebounds, and even wins. The Heat don't have an answer for Dwight, the guy is so improved I wish people would stop pretending his skillset is the same as it was 3 years ago.
     
  21. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Dwight Howard is like Shaq with 25% less offensive game, and 75% less leadership.
     
  22. Yellow Snowman

    Yellow Snowman New Member

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    People need to stop comparing Dwight to Shaq and pretending like that is the standard for a franchise player. Shaq was the most dominant player in the league and is one of the top handful of centers of all time. We all agree Dwight isn't on that level on offense, but on defense and rebounding he more than holds his own. With the watered down center position from what it used to be, he is still a dominant player. Offensively the guy is going to get you over 20 a night while dominating the boards and the lane. Ya thats an excellent player.

    Give the man his credit.
     
  23. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Chris Bosh absolutely is a HOF

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob_active.html
     
  24. Yellow Snowman

    Yellow Snowman New Member

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  25. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Why would you put Steve Nash in before Bosh? Bosh's numbers speak for themselves.
     
  26. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Just so we're clear, we are talking about the NBA HOF, which most recently inducted Chet Walker, and Jamaal Wilkes.
     
  27. Yellow Snowman

    Yellow Snowman New Member

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    Easy, Nash is by far the better player. Nash is easily one of the top 10 best PGs of all time, Bosh isn't a top 10 PF, or C. Nash is the best shooting PG of all time and has 2 MVP awards......Bosh has?........ya exactly.

    Bosh is a good player and I dont want this to turn into a Bosh bashing thing as that gets old and its unwarranted. I'm just saying Nash is certainly better in NBA history and in terms of rebounding Bosh is going to get beat up a little bit trying to get inside with Dwight and Evans. Bosh can play, no doubt.
     
  28. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    I thought you were joking about Reggie Evans.
    Especially when you said this:

    Evans has only averaged double digit RPG twice in 11 years.
    The man is the definition of "sub-par backup."
    But you're on a role when it comes to not knowing what the hell you're talking about, do go on.
     
  29. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Its not "me" they have to overcome. Its the media. Theres more of it here then anywhere else. They scrutinize and blow up everything. You cant breathe here if youre a public figure and mess up. Eli Manning is a perfect example of this. I know its a different sport but same context. Before he got his first chip all the press here ever wrote about was how the Giants messed up taking Eli over Roethlisberger and Rivers. After that it was like "Oh, well whats he going to do for an encore?" Only now is he starting to be recognized here as the best QB to ever play in NY. Forget that the stats already showed he was better then Namath and Simms and everyone else....this is what it is. I know you get that in a lot of cities but just because of the sheer number of media and people here its on a different scale so it has to be rated accordingly.
     
  30. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Both of whom were highly overrated to begin with.
     
  31. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I dont have a problem with where Bosh is ranked...I have a major problem with where Nash is ranked. There are 0 2x MVP's not in the NBA HOF. His probability of getting in is as good as anyone short of Kobe-Lebron-Garnett-Duncan-Wade (if he does it another couple of years). Those are the only names on the list ahead of Nash
     
  32. Yellow Snowman

    Yellow Snowman New Member

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    Well the reason is he is very 1 dimensional. He can rebound but after that he truly struggles. He is isn't a good passer or good shooter. I'm talking about pure rebounding. He comes in, out-muscles people, and adds rebounds. Its a valuable commodity to have off the bench and when paired with Dwight will dominate the boards. Dwight does it on his own and if you get Evans 25mins in a game he is going to get you 10 rebounds....pretty damn impressive.

    Evans was the difference maker in the Memphis series which sparked the Clips win that series. Guy is a quality player to have.
     
  33. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    I don't see how you can play Evans and Dwight extended miniutes together though. There would be zero spacing on the court. It would be very easy to defend that lineup.
     
  34. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    You make it a habit of swinging and missing.

    First of all..Yes. Bosh is a hall of famer. He is a 7x all-star and is 27 years old. There is not a single 7 time all-star NOT in the hall of fame, and he is gonna add to it..so no..YOU stop it.

    As for Dwight Howard doing "extremely well" against the Heat...THE EXACT OPPOSITE has occurred on many occasions. He has had some big games, but as a whole..dating back to before the Big Three, Howard has traditionally had poor games versus the Heat. His big games however usually come stacked with Rebounding totals.

    in 09-10' Dwight Howard had his worst season versus an individual team in his career (4 games). That team was the Miami Heat.

    and Bosh did that to Howard, when Howard was already a 2x all-star in 08-09.


    BTW, have you outed yourself as a "pretend" Heat fan? You seem to know very little about the team, and never let an opportunity go by without unreasonably attacking one of them.
     
  35. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    I mean "you" the observer, which includes both the fans and the media.

    Having to overcome your fanbase and some beat writers is an absurd notion in and of itself. They aren't exactly on the court trying to block layups.
     
  36. Yellow Snowman

    Yellow Snowman New Member

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    You act as if these guys are statues and can't move out of the paint a few feet to open up some space. The NBa was played with 2 bigs in the mold of Dwight and Evans for decades. It wasnt until recently you see this huge emphasis on a PF who shoots 20 footers. Let me give you an example, just last year the Clippers would play Jordan or Evans with Blake Griffin. All 3 guys have to play close to the basket and they're just fine.

    You don't think you can have Dwight or Evans run picks for guards to open up the middle? Dwight is a good pick and roll player and will be just fine working that game with Deron. Evans also can set screens or move out of the paint to let Dwight work.

    One thing you aren't noticing is its hard to defend a lineup that is pulling down all the rebounds and extending possessions. It goes both ways. If you think its easy to defend you're going to be in for a big surprise if Dwight lands in Brooklyn (hope he doesn't for this very reason)
     
  37. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    The Clippers were lucky to get out of the first round. That's your example?

    You can certainly run pick and rolls with them but you would just trap the ball handler because Evans and Dwight are zero threat away from the basket. Yes, that lineup will rebound but it won't be a threat offensively. Evans and Dwight won't play together a lot, especially against Miami. Miami's small lineup with Battier/Lebron at the 4 will eat that up.
     
  38. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Are we really discussing Reggie Evans? Bring back the Chalmers discussion.
     
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  39. Yellow Snowman

    Yellow Snowman New Member

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    Its an example of it working and Evans being a difference maker that he can be on the boards. I do agree on the other end if you go small lineup it would eat up the big Nets lineup though, thats a given. But even if you go small lineup and only use Evans to spell Dwight, Evans still can eat up Bosh and Haslem on the boards. And its that more traditional lineup that these guys can do damage especilly if a guy like Haslem is still shooting poorly.

    As far as pick and roll game, it will be fine with them. Dwight rolls to the basket and is very good at it. What they aren't good at is pick and pop type of plays. But with a talent like Deron and threats to hit shots or throw it up at the basket for Dwight they are going to be something to watch and hard to defend.
     
  40. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    I'm not arguing the Nets won't be good. I even mentioned last page that I thought this board is underrating how good this potential Nets team could be. I just don't think that Dwight and Evans specifically would be particularly effective together offensively.
     
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