Daniel Thomas has beefed up, blames injuries for woes.

So malpractice is something appropriate to assume unless proven otherwise? Interesting.

 

Long and close study of the ACTUAL subject matter (NFL players, NFL performance) versus something that doesn't translate.

 

OK right, so my hands on with injuries don't "translate" but you watching film does....This is just laughable.

 

OK, now of these, which ones by you ability to look at film, had the same degree of injury as DT? And of those, which ones had a falling off in stats? You are just failing to see apples and bannas heres.

I never once claim DT would turn out to be great, I am only argument is you reasoning that DT sucks is..well incorrect.

 

Sorry, but your want absolutes with case studies and personal experience. What exactly is yours when it comes to any of the points you are trying to make here?

Have YOU had personal experience with at athletes that have added weight and slowed down or gotten faster?
Have YOU had any personal experience with hamstring/muscle injuries, or treating of such injuries?

You can find reports and studies that both prove and disprove your sentiments in this thread. But when it comes to you, how can YOU be so sure since you are quick to call out others. Seriously, this went from a conversation to you questioning the merit of anyone who disagrees with you, as pretty much any thread does where you don't agree with people.

Never mind securities, you should have been a lawyer.

 

That gif gets me every time!

 

OMG I bursted out laughing, never seen that before, people here at work must think I am nuts.

 

What a bunch of hooey. I have experience following NFL players and so do you, and so does everyone else here. I have experience with logic and rationality and so does everyone else here. I can't help it if those things seem to be failing a few people at the moment, but yeah I'm going to point that out. On what PLANET do we just base assume that someone can add 7 lbs of weight and not see their speed or agility decrease? Has it happened? Sure. But that should never be your base assumption, ESPECIALLY in the NFL. A year from now we'll be reading stories about how Daniel Thomas (who struggled in 2012) is losing weight and focusing on getting faster and quicker, and the same eternal sunshine of the spotless mind types that hailed his weight gain and claimed there is zero reason to assume he'll lose speed because of it, will come out talking about how much speed and explosiveness he should gain (without losing any power, of course) as a result of his new training.

How much experience do I have medically treating players with hamstring injuries and the like? None. How much experience do I *need* simply to recall the literally thousand times from a thousand different athletes across multiple sports that I've seen these guys asked about their minor dings and injuries and reply, "No excuses, everyone's hurt".

Oh, but it's a member of the Miami Dolphins. I forgot.

 

And that is it in a nutshell. You don't think of a hammy injury as one that would limit performance, and one should just suck it up and play. Nothing could be the furthest from the truth. And watching sports center and NFL network and following NFL players and the sport in general for years becomes irrelevant. It now becomes a matter of opinion. Through personal experience I can tell you that a hammy is no joke, or something you can simply suck up and continue on. Through your years of varying experience(s) you believe it can be. That, again through my personal experience, is flawed thinking IMO.

And through years of following NFL players as you mentioned, people did bounce back from hamstring injuries. The thing is, we aren't giving Thomas that opportunity yet. He very well could have been negatively affected by injuries last year, reducing his effectiveness. He is said to be clear of them, so lets judge him this year. If he becomes injury laden again, you may very well have a point.

Premature to be dogging on the guy at this time IMO.

 

We can all agree that:

1. Daniel Thomas was a major disappointment last year, even if your expectations were low.
2. Daniel Thomas had a hamstring injury last year.
3. In the NFL, nearly every player plays with injuries of varying degrees.
4. Nobody knows how bad his injury was, but he was cleared to play and did play (like crap).
5. Offseason articles about how this player and that player are "in the best shape of their lives" or have "lost weight/put on weight" are both numerous and worthless.
6. Daniel Thomas is on a short leash with Lamar Miller on the squad.

I think we'll know the answer to the Daniel Thomas question pretty early on this upcoming season. If he's no good, we'll know it when Reggie Bush and Lamar Miller get all the carries.

 

No, I can't. When a rookie performs at times with clear NFL upside, but overall not particularly well, that's not a major disappointment, that's common- Injury or no.

Thomas isn't on any sort of short leash. They're not going to cut him anytime soon, and the decision with Bush is more pressing.

 

I'm not saying he'll be cut. I'm just saying he'll be buried on the bench.

 

I'm dogging the guy for blaming his injuries instead of blaming himself. When you're veteran, you LEARN that everyone in this game is playing hurt with some issue or another. There were 214 players that appeared on the injury report with hamstring injuries, and that's just a FRACTION of the number of players that played with injuries in 2011, many of them dealing with multiple injuries. Daniel Thomas had early season hamstring problems and is openly blaming his late season struggles (including 2.9 ypc in Weeks 15-17) on those hamstring injuries. That's not a mature thing to do and that's all I've ever been saying in this thread. People can transfigure, misrepresent or skew that point all they want, but it's the same point that has been echoed by a thousand veterans across multiple sports. It's the same point I've heard Dwyane Wade echo a dozen times in this playoff run alone. Wade's injury issues didn't stop him averaging 23 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists and 3 blocks/steals in the NBA Finals.

Daniel Thomas WILL eventually learn that, as he grows up and matures. But that doesn't change the fact that he's clearly not getting it right now. At least, as someone mentioned earlier, he's taking a course of action that he views as more likely to prevent those kinds of minor injuries in the future. One could argue whether this particular course of action will meet with success but at least there's some reason to believe he's coming to grips with the dangers of getting hurt in the NFL. But he still hasn't quite grasped the fact that everyone he's staring across the line of scrimmage at, everyone he's lining up next to, they're all dealing with problems too, his aren't special and they're not an excuse for performing as poorly as he did.

 

Well stated.

 

I had the same expectations for Thomas last year as I do for Miller this year. Thats pretty much nothing. I just have a hard time expecting anything from any rookie RB.

 

I think a 2nd round tailback even as a rookie should be expected to do better than having the worst yards per carry among all rookies with 20+ carries. Evan Royster, Demarco Murray, Stevan Ridley, Dion Lewis, Roy Helu, Kendall Hunter, Mark Ingram, Delone Carter, Jacquizz Rodgers and Phillip Tanner were the other rookie tailbacks to get 20+ carries. Daniel Thomas' yardage per carry was the lowest among them. And I haven't checked, but I'm willing to bet none of them come even close to Thomas' ineffectiveness on the goal line (9 carries on Goal to Go, 0 touchdowns).

Yes, I expect Lamar Miller to do better than that. I don't expect Lamar to put up a lot of numbers on a pure total basis, because I expect he'll be given fewer opportunities than Daniel Thomas was given in 2011, but when he does run the ball I will be disappointed if he produces 3.5 yards per carry behind a line that is producing 5+ yards per carry with other runners.

I also expect Daniel Thomas to improve in his second year.

 

I guess to me when a guy says I let the injuries get into my head and cause me to run without confidence...he is blaming himself. Its seems like he's saying my injuries limited some things and that in turn made me question myself. Now, I've been working out and getting physically and mentally stronger.

Ideally you don't want a guy who loses confidence, but if he does and he responds by working to change correct that, then why bag on him?

 

I think most people w/competent reading skills would see that as well.

 

Or without a bias.

My thing is, you have a rookie on an 0-7 team, with the entire team and soon to be fired coach in full on BLAH mode, then injuries say keep him from planting his foot the way he's used to....and its just not that hard to see he'd lose confidence and maybe start playing confused or even scared.

 

Along w/a shotty OL.

I've said many times I was completely against drafting DT in general (let alone trading up for him), but I don't see any legitimate reason to knock him for a statement like this.

 

Well, if that's what you get from the following statements:

Have at it, hoss.

 

Where is he not taking responsibility?

 

Interesting accusation. What reason do I have to be biased against Daniel Thomas? Do tell.

 

Hard to see what you're asking through the tangle of double negatives.

 

Ha ha, oops. I made a mistake there.

Where is he not taking responsibility?

 

Wow, be a dick for no reason.

If you see that statement as anything other than DT saying he let injuries affect his mind, then the problem is you, quite frankly. Or do you really think DT wants us all to think that his injuries are like pills that he was forced to swallow and they messed with his brain beyond his control? Really...hoss?

 

Where exactly did I accuse you of anything?

You'd think someone who was so hellbent on holding people to the precise language they use like DT or even Dupree, would have paid a bit more attention to what they read. Show me where I accused you of anything, hoss.

 

OK, that's better, I couldn't tell if you were trying to trip me up or what.

To me, first off, even bringing up the injuries at all and linking them with his poor performance is a bad idea. Nobody put a gun to his head and asked him to do that. Even if he was specifically asked about injuries (and in that article it makes it unclear), at any point he could have used the exact same language that I know you've also seen at least a hundred veterans use when talking about injuries affecting performance. They all say (and mean it) that everyone is hurt, everyone plays through pain, it's not an excuse, you've got to be able to push through it. If he wasn't even asked about injuries, that's even worse, but we don't know that. Here's the text. I know it SOUNDS to me like the question he was asked was about the Dolphins drafting another tailback, and that he voluntarily went into all his injury woes:

Be honest. Does that sound to you like I have the incorrect read on it? Does it sound to you like he was asked about injuries, or does it dsound to you like he was asked about the Dolphins drafting another tailback, and he decided of his own accord to start talking about injuries?

Second, just look at the statements. The injury messed me up. The injury affected me. Pretty clear subject-verb-object. To me, that's blaming the injury. The stance that merely admitting that the injury messed him up is itself a mea culpa...is a stance that implies that not only am I correct, but that everyone knows I'm correct, including Daniel Thomas. Therefore, in a self-conscious manner, he is reflecting upon his own failings. If that's what you believe, fine...but I'm not so sure Daniel believes that. I think he really looks at those injuries and thinks to himself, they screwed me up, that's why I performed poorly.

The thing is everyone is kind of assuming he's gained this 7 lbs in order to deal with the injuries. That's a poor assumption based on the actual quotes which date back to June 10th. What he actually said is he gained weight to gain more power because he noticed at the end of the year he was getting stopped by first contact too much, and "that's not me". Here's Barry Jackson's exact wording:

 

If you choose to see that as being a dick rather than agreeing to disagree, then the problem is you, quite frankly.

 

LMFAO.

Ok.

 

lol Wow.

 

Lets act like adults, please.

 

I am being honest and I do not see it.

I find this a mature way of looking at it. He has to handle his own.

Here he is taking responsibility on his ability. As silly as that statement is. He knows he has room for improvement.

Here I think you are reading too much into his statement. Is he blaming the actual injury or is he blaming his handling of the injury.

I do not think or know that you are correct.

 

John Jerry is following that exact program except it's 7 lbs of fat
each and every season

 

The post said he added muscle to his frame, not legs. Hopefully he will be more powerful, but doubt his speed gets any better if not worse. So what is DT weight now, almost 240?

 

Essentially he's blaming the injuries for the Dolphins drafting Lamar Miller.

 

He's at 235. I think the first point someone made was the best. He was 228 and already slow. Now what is he at 235? Even slower?

The irony is he's trying to make himself even more of a power back and I don't know if that's going to avail him. He was always big in college but I didn't see a ton of power or tackle breaking ability, especially if being tackled by guys that approach his size. To me, he might be better off slimming down and trying to get faster, being more of a big-framed vision back...than bulking up even more and trying to be something that I don't think he's ever really been.