James Jones Trade Rumors: Packers WR On The Block

Been saying he would help the team short term and i welcome that. But we're still ignoring that this team isn't in the business of giving up picks for older players. To Ireland that's a sin, and philbin seems to share the same philosophies, with confidence in his staff to develop talent. I'm sure they are willing to make exceptions, and he isn't that old, but for James jones ? GB would love Davone Bess for him, strait up dudes.

 

Since when is a 28 year old an "older player"?

 

I would welcome the trade if it is for less than a 4th and the idea is to replace Bess.

I like Bess as a player, however he needs to step up his game. Last season was not good enough. He didn't get open as well and he dropped too many passes. Bess is a limited player with limited range of where he can get open consistently on the field. People compare him to Welker, however he isn't as quick and doesn't have the same football speed as Welker.

 

If Green Bay would want Bess for Jones straight up why would we want to do that? The two teams run the same offense. They apparently see the value in Bess.

 

Since 30 was over-the-hill.... and we're talking about for a draft pick here, 28 is an older player. See:Weeden. No doubt, Great Wrs can produce into their mid 30's. Point is Jones is nearing the end of his prime years, and still struggles with consistency. IMO, had he been a starter on a team like STL nobody here would be interested in him on these boards. (philbin connection aside) But he did some nice things buried in the most efficient passing game ever, so there's this hope that he can turn those handful of Tds a year in Green Bay into something more in Miami. I recognize the yards per attempt #'s and all. But part of that is Aaron and part of that is having 2 pro-bowl caliber WRs ahead of you to dictate coverage. I bet Hartline and/or Bess would fair as well or better in his situation.

You'd like to think you can do better with a 4th round pick, though Edmund Gates unfortunately isn't going to help my case here.

 

The only position where 28 is an "older" player is tailback, and that's assuming he's got a lot of carries under his belt. Otherwise 28 years old is not an "older" player.

 

I'll have to assume you didnt read that post your quoting.

 

If that helps you feel good about yourself, assume what you want. I read it, and it was wrong. A 28 year old receiver is not an "older" player. Sorry.

 

Not saying we'd want to... just trying new ways to get my point across. Jones isn't the improvement many here think he would be.
I went on to state that I think Hartline and/or Bess would prob fair as well or better in his situation.

 

You read it wrong than. Sorry.
When you use a draft pick, generally you get in return a prospect that averages around 22-23 in age. 28 is older than that. This team doesn't spend draft picks like that. And Jones is hardly a polished player, seems he's become expendable even. Those are facts. Did you read this ?

 

Jones had 7 tds last season while Hartline has 1td in the past 26 games
hardly what I would call equal

 

yah Rodgers threw 45 of em. I think if you totaled our pass tds of the past 3 years we may top 45.
Stokely had a monster season the year peyton tossed 49.

that would change my standpoint completely.

 

You say the Dolphins are not in the habit of trading draft value for guys that are older than the 22 year old rookies that draft value would normally haul in. Well, you sure could fool me. The Dolphins gave up draft value for a 24 year old Anthony Fasano. They gave up draft value for a 29 year old Akin Ayodele. They gave up draft value for a 34 year old Jason Ferguson. They gave up draft value for a 26 year old Brandon Marshall. They gave up draft value for a 26 year old Reggie Bush. They gave up draft value for a 25 year old Tyler Thigpen. They gave up draft value for a 25 year old Tony McDaniel. They gave up draft value for a 28 year old Tim Dobbins.

And while I'm quite sure none of those will "count" to you, for some reasons you'll probably make up as you go along, the fact of the matter is 28 years old is not "old" for a receiver and the Dolphins have shown themselves willing to trade away draft value for journeymen players that can help the team.

 

I didnt make the argument that because jones scored 7 tds last year he's better than someone who didnt....... my response was that i could show you another guy who can put up numbers in a similar offense. We know he isnt as good as the numbers would lead you to believe.

And the Packers Offense has had similar production in the past too, how is that not working for you ?

 

Ok so your changing your argument now. Your really reaching hard too with these examples. They don't "count" because your ignoring the guidelines. You listed two guys that were even close to 28. Ferguson was Parcells boy. We had no nose tackle for the 3-4. What was that a 6th rounder ? Reggie Bush was a steal for just a swap of 6th rounders. One of the more explosive players in the whole league last year. Ayodele was a combo with 24 year old Fasano. We are not devoid of talent like we were when Tuna just took over, & we've changed since he left.. I'm referring to the present here.

For jones we are not talking about a late round pick.... and he's not on the upside of his career. I havent seen anything we've done in the time frame you've used that compares to a move like that. I've said all I can say. Anymore will just spawn a new debate further off topic.

Cut/new contract: Jump on it
Trade for/current deal: Philbin would have to really convince Ireland, I'd be shocked.

 

Well, you certainly are predictable. I'll give you that.

 

Incidentally, Brandon Stokley was actually a very good player back when he was 28 years old and in his prime. If someone is chiding the idea of trading for James Jones on the basis of him being just another Brandon Stokley 28 years and in his prime, that's not going to get very far with me because I'd love to have a 28 year old Brandon Stokley in his prime on my team, especially since the cupboard seems pretty bare at the position on the Dolphins.

No idea why some people act allergic to more talent.

 

Ah yes, you did predict I'd refute those bad examples. How clever.
Your just not comprehending what I'm saying, maybe it's my fault. You thought that because i considered jones an older player than we would trade for, (all things considered) that i think all 28 year olds are older players. And now your listing examples that clearly dont qualify or meet the guidelines i presented.

But were Stokely on the dolphins during that time.............................. ???????? He'd be like the little guy we traded away to NE.
For the right price i'll take all talent. Never dismissed that Jones could help the team. Stokley was my example that in such an offense, a 4th target of his magnitude can have inflated #'s that should be taken with a grain of salt. Jones production is also correlated to his offense but not all that impressive. It seems I have just a bit more faith in our roster and certainly the GM than you do. Still one of your biggest fans !

 

Brandon Lloyd comes to mind as well with his play in Denver. Older receiver (close to 30) who began to get it at a later point.

 

I have hope for Nanee. He is 28 and on the roster right now. Maybe he gets it this year. I am pulling for Moore and Wallace, but as CK said, I will need to see it in games.

 

I have no hope for Naaneee. Given his movement skills at his size, it's easy to be superficially impressed by the guy, but get him into games with hitting going on and then you'll see why he's the very definition of "just a guy".

 

Maybe for a 6th or 7th or something late and conditional would be ok, I think he will probably get cut anyway. Hasn't done anything in his career for me to get excited about. His hands can be suspect and I'm not sure anyone is going to be beating down GB's door to trade for him.

The pro is that he would pretty much know the system -- another reason for us to wait until he gets cut.

 

Your point was pretty clear. Just don't expect everyone to agree with it.

 

Clearly anyone who doesn't agree with his point just didn't read his posts.

 

If we do get Jones, either trade or signing after if he gets cut, I think he'd have an excellent chance to be a starter by midway through training camp. If someone disagrees they obviously did not understand this post.

 

Ck, are there any other receivers out there that are on the verge of getting it that Miami could get (say some of the Saints wrs, or Giant receivers)? Not starters, but guys who are currently blocked from advancing, like Jones.

 

None I'm aware of. Jones too though has a big advantage of being already fully knowledgeable of Miami's offense. He could seamlessly step right in the first day, IMO.

 

Good question. The real question is, for the most part, if these guys are so promising, why are they on the trade block?

With the Packers and Jones I think the answer to that is relatively clear. He was a guy that sort of battled Jordy Nelson for supremacy in the rotation and he pretty thoroughly lost that battle. They wanted more speed so they grabbed Randall Cobb, and with Jermichael Finley back and healthy suddenly you're looking at Jones as the #4 receiving option with a #5 sitting behind him that you drafted in the 2nd round because you think he's fast and a playmaker and the better complement to Jennings & Nelson. But even that you have to approach with some skepticism which is why you don't pay much for James Jones. To some degree it doesn't matter, if James Jones was an excellent receiver there's no way the Packers would give him up.

With the new CBA, cap space can be rolled forward with ease. So, when it comes to final camp cuts, what you're going to see is more VETERANS with big salaries cut than usual for that time of year. The reason is because with all of training camp and preseason behind you, you will have had a lot of data points to see just how close things are between the cheap youngster at a position, and the older more expensive guy. It used to be that your motivation at that point in time for releasing the old guy was only slight, because whatever you save in that year you don't get to roll forward into future years. Now you do, so there may be some interesting decisions made.

With that in mind, one guy I'd be interested in seeing what happens is Sidney Rice in Seattle. In Minnesota the guy was incredible. Health has been a big issue for him. Doug Baldwin was a surprise high production rookie and they have high hopes still for Golden Tate. They have some young guys that I know they also like a lot, like Ricardo Lockette, Cameron Kenney and Jermaine Kearse. They still have Mike Williams. Sidney Rice is on a 5 year, $41 million deal. They say $18.5 million of it was guaranteed but really only $6 million of it was in the signing bonus and another $2 million they paid in guarantee 2011 salary. His 2012 salary of $7 million is guaranteed but what you could see happen is the Seahawks saying we'll trade him for a song if you take the $7 million guaranteed salary off our books. They'll essentially have paid him $8 million to see if he was going to be healthy and fit well, and with less the 500 receiving yards and 2 TDs in 2011...evidently not.

Only other guy I can think of that way would be the Steve Smith that used to play for the Giants and played for the Eagles last year. He's on the St. Louis Rams right now, but that is a very crowded position. They have a young Greg Salas they like. They just drafted Brian Quick damn near the 1st round. They also drafted Chris Givens. Those three are locks and aside from them they have Danny Amendola, who should be considered close to a lock, Danario Alexander, Austin Pettis and Brandon Gibson. Truthfully, whether Danario Alexander or Steve Smith is the guy that shakes loose, you would probably want to look at either player. I thought Danario played soft in college and I was a little leery of him. But he's really played better, when healthy, in the pros. He's had 737 yards and 4 TDs on only 426 pass snaps in two years with the Rams. And PFF really noted him for his run blocking in 2011, so who knows if they're on the mark or what. Either he or Steve Smith could have their work cut out for them though with Greg Salas, Brian Quick, Danny Amendola and Chris Givens all about guaranteed to be ahead of them. There are some people in that organization that like Brandon Gibson, too...though for the life of me I can't tell you why.

Legedu Naanee may not be the only receiver that shakes out of Carolina. They have a stunning 15 wide receivers on roster. I can say for certain that David Gettis and Steve L. Smith are safe. They drafted Joe Adams and he's surely safe. Brandon LaFell caught some passes for them and you'd think he makes it. The three guys that would intrigue me are Seyi Ajirotutu, Kealoha Pilares and rookie Nelson Rosario. Pilares in particular, I'd snap up very quickly.

And again, we may go sniffing at a team we've already sniffed at, as Chad Johnson may not be the only receiver to shake out of New England. The Patriots added back Jabar Gaffney and Donte Stallworth, in addition to Brandon Lloyd. They still have Deion Branch, still have Wes Welker. They also have Matt Slater and Julian Edelman. They drafted a guy in the 7th round by the name of Jeremy Ebert that I would be REAL interested in, especially if he shows out well in preseason. The problem is if the Dolphins liked Ebert so much you'd think they would have drafted him themselves. But then, maybe they just liked Rishard Matthews and B.J. Cunningham more. Yet even so, one preseason might not be enough to get them to reneg on that and say ok suddenly we like Ebert more than the guys we drafted.

If Julian Edelman were to find himself released, I would be immediately interested. You'd be foolish not to be. He's put some serious skills and quickness on display. The key in that may actually be Chad Johnson. If Chad is giving you everything you hoped for and then some during camp, suddenly you start to look at guys' production in New England a little bit skeptically, because there's something going on there where productive players are going there and not producing because they're not quite enough of a Tom Brady butt boy or something like that.

 

Oh Ok.
Obviously it wasnt clear, so I went on to further clarify it. Not looking for anyone to agree, just to simply comprehend my standpoint.

Don't be ridiculous now.
You "clearly" misunderstood it, to be fair. That is why i had to assume you didnt read it. It had nothing to do with you agreeing with me, so there's still some sort of weird language barrier here. Our opinions may vary and thats to be expected. But for wrong reasons you picked apart one little thing i mentioned about the teams willingness to trade picks for "older" players, which is is a widely understood concept. Pretty obvious we're holding off on making rash moves based off desperation this year anyway.

 

I never refuted that. He's a better bet than Ocho or Nanee or any of the young guys (at this point) to produce game 1. But the argument was: is it worth the cost to trade a 4th/5th for him with that contract, just because he'd get on the field considering the lack of talent we have. Start he may, an ideal starter he is not. If he's cut, I'm all over it (short term) Why I'm hesitant : the mid round pick, the not very cheap contract accompanying the inconsistency, and the fact that he's not a younger player. He'd take a roster spot from someone who could develop and contribute down the road when we're competing again. Jones is not a wise investment at all those costs. Next year we'll be looking for a bonified starter, and to hopefully resign Hartline. I'd rather plug that hole without doing it at the expense of the future. But hey If you think the lombardi is there for the taking, and Jones can help put us over the top, than that's cool too !