http://www.sun-sentinel.com/videogallery/70189501/Sports/Philbin-says-Clyde-Gates-making-progress I am hoping for Gates to become a dynamic receiver. I can't wait to see all that speed plus great route running.
I can't watch the video at the moment 71, but from what I heard from Philbin, he is struggling to pick up e system?
Yeah, Coach said "Gates is running poor routes and not playing fast and we are working everyday at trying to get him to improve"
a good coaching staff can find opportunities for Gates to make some impact, but I don't see him being a major contributor this year.
I'm inclined to agree. It's funny that this (Joe Philbin says Gates is making progress) is the headline because I heard Philbin's answer about Gates and the first thing I thought was, he sounds like he's being positive only for the sake of the player's confidence. I didn't hear anything real or substantive in his praise.
I never understood why guys like Gates and Cunningham are not doing hours of extra work just to fix the largest flaws in their games? Like Hankerson working with Duper when he was still at the U? Duper is still in town, why not find him and work after practices with him? This has always been one of the mysteries of how the NFL works, Cris Carter was not known for great hands at OSU, he just worked insanely hard on developing them on his own time..guys like Derek Hagan never seem to do the same thing.
Most WC systems require the receivers to make reads of the defense on the move (ie. zone or man) compared to systems where you don't make any reads or you just have options on routes depending on whether you've beaten your defender to a spot or not. Different players are better in different systems b/c of these variations. Some players can adapt and some players can't. That is why system fit is so important. And most of the time you just can't tell which players work in different systems if they haven't done it. Now Gates struggling early is not really a big deal. He may just need repetitions before it clicks. I've seen players who looked hopeless during practice come back later and just "get it" after their mind processed things during a break. But it also may never click and he may never play anywhere close to his speed in this system. You just don't know which way it will go. Either way though, at this point it's too early to be concerned about. If I were Philbin I'd just be looking to see the player working hard and not getting too frustrated. If by the middle of TC he's not showing enough progress then I'd be thinking the player is more likely to fall into the "not going to get it" category.
They often do plenty of extra work to work on their hands or some other thing. But either A) The media doesn't write about it because it's not interesting, or B) The media does write about it, inserting a note about it somewhere in one of their articles, and you just end up either not reading that article or forgetting about it. Incidentally, when did Cunningham's largest flaw become his hands? That's not what I saw when I watched his tape. He has good hands, catches the ball away from his body very smoothly on the run without breaking stride. Struggles a little more in contested ball and difficult catch situations...but then, so do most humans.
Odd, when I watched I saw Cunningham making plays in traffic/coverage, Rafi's guy Matthews was the one who was college open most of the time. But then again, saw only highlights, his hands have to improve and that is a fact.
That was my perception as well. It was why I questioned BJ's ability to get separation. I didn't see hands as a likely issue for BJ. I would guess that at this point it's mostly about having so much info that they're still thinking out there rather than just playing. It's so early that I don't really worry about WR struggles at this point. And I also don't get too excited about the WR who looks good early. Sometimes the guy who gets things quicker will look like a stud against guys trying to figure things out, but then disappear when they face others who aren't still thinking out there.
I think it's pretty probably that the finished product is going to pretty heavily de-emphasize the #3 WR to the point where optimally Gates or Naanee are going to get like 300 or less snaps. Michael Egnew and Charles Clay will be split out wide pretty frequently in their place I imagine.
Yessir, that is the thing with Matthews for me, he got plenty of separation and made plays, I'm just not sure his frame and skillset is adaptable to the NFL, it COULD be, what I saw with Cunningham was a polished Wr who lacked great athleticism but knew how to "use his body" (see..pushoff) to create space and maybe played faster then he timed.
I saw Matthews be just as polished as BJ at using his body and pushing off and far more polished at using his route running to create separation. Matthews also had better athleticism and played faster than he timed out at the combine and as fast as he timed out at his pro day. If anything Matthews plays faster than BJ (IMO much faster). So if BJ's skillset is adaptable then RM's skillset is even more likely to be adaptable. The only advantage is BJ has is about 2" in height and 1/2" longer arms. I don't see any reason to believe that 2" in height and 1/2" longer arms would make any player more likely to succeed than a player with more speed (on the track and on the field), better athleticism, and better ability to get separation.
Which is why I say, we shall see, I saw a speed guy in Matthews whose explosion was to much for the Db's he faced not his physicality, did not see him use his body well to create space, did not see him hand check then push off subtly, did not see him work the sidelines did not see him run through tackles etc. To be clear, I'm not saying he cannot do so, merely that I've not seen him do so.
Well, you did say you attended his games, I think one has developed a mancrush, but that does not mean he cannot play.
I had a mancrush on Sanu and Wylie among the receivers in this draft. Matthews I had as about a 5th round guy (I do think he could have been higher in a different draft though). If I were running the draft I would probably not have taken Matthews at all since there were a few WRs I would have taken ahead of him. But just comparing the skillsets of BJ and Matthews objectively, I would say that there's no reasonable basis to conclude that a BJ's skillset is more likely to be adaptable to the NFL game than Matthews. I would argue that only somebody with a mancrush on BJ would make such a claim.
We were on the same page there with Sanu and Wylie, I talked about them a lot and had them mocked to us, we could of got both players too..also, been readin up on those boys, and some of my other players that I would of drafted..Sanu, Wylie, R Wilson, Weeden, Kuechly, Carder, they are all impressing thus far.
This is why D Bess is going to have a career season. The Hawaii offense was all read and react and he was the best of three very good Wrs the year they went to the Sugar Bowl and got mauled by Georgia.
Bess' play in Hawaii is part of why I'm not as negative on this WR group than most. We already saw CK's video on Hartline. I don't see Bess as compelling athletically, but I think that if used to his best advantage he can be as productive as Welker is in NE. In the offense I expect to see, he doesn't have to be that productive (+100 catches). I have no trouble believing he can be that 70 - 80 catch guy that produces a ton of first downs. I think the key is whether or not Egnew threatens the seam. If he does that then I expect that Bess will have room inside and won't be doubled much.
Matthews though has decent sized hands at 9 1/8". BJ has perhaps the smallest WR hands in this draft at 8 1/8"
You're inferring Rafael has a mancrush for Matthews? I'd say that is downright silly and way off base. He is about as consistently objective on any of these players as anyone I've ever read on this forum. The last one to ever put personal feelings over objective analysis.
Gates has the speed to stretch the field & threaten the end zone on any given play will he get it together for 2012? WILL HE HOLD ON TO THE BALL? Competition is the Elixir of Success: Let everyone compete for every position!
