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Does drafting Tannehill change your view of Ireland?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Apr 29, 2012.

Ireland+Tannehill, change your mind?

Poll closed May 6, 2012.
  1. Yes, did not think he had the guts

    24 vote(s)
    26.4%
  2. No, 4 yrs is a long track record to ignore

    17 vote(s)
    18.7%
  3. too early to tell

    45 vote(s)
    49.5%
  4. would have preferred a different play

    5 vote(s)
    5.5%
  1. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    I went about a week and a half around the perceived QB and Y Bell "fiasco's" where I was really down on him. I stayed away from here for a littlebit and have come back to my original thoughts. This team was an abject disaster when he took over and the level of talent has risen considerably since then. HAs there been misses? Yep. The biggest complaint has been the lack of commitment in addressing the Qb spot, but that has been going on for 15 years and far before his time running the show. Now that it has been addressed we will have to wait and see the results. I am in favor of the Tannehill pick. I feel he was the best option on the board at the time.

    Ireland is doing a better job than anyone we've had in the GM chair since before Shula took over, with the possible nod to Jimmy Johnson's tenure. Even then Johnson only really addressed the D.
     
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  2. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I thought JJ had the "right" approach to building a team for Miami and some of the unique attributes to the area, like the heat etc.

    I also thought he and Ireland made some of the same mistakes, mainly not investing enough in playmaking positions, or having plain old bad luck with the guys they did acquire not panning out, Yatil Green and Pat Turner for example.

    Miami does better on a team speed model, and preferrably running the 4-3 with some aspect of the offense, either run the ball to death, or pass a lot, that just makes it tough for opponents to come to Miami and win. This is one of the reasons why I'm happy we see the 1pm starts in the late summer coming back this yr.
     
  3. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Ya know I haven't even looked at the schedule yet or any of that stuff. It's about damn time they added some 1:00 games to the schedule. The away teams have had it far too easy in Miami the last couple of years with those later starts. Make em suffer.
     
  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wait a minute, what?, don't just skip over that Van, for it is the basis for so much hatred, character assination, and false analysis..Did he really say that, and if so, there should be a thread about it, just so it checks people that judge him based on when that POS was in charge.

    Folks who believe Ireland was making calls while Parcells was here are probably the same ones who think we got snubbed by Matt FLynn..lol
     
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You really like the draft KB?
     
  6. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I know I heard Ireland say that Parcells would take player off his board.
     
  7. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I am wait and see but love his approach this year, he wasnt play it safe. He went for the fences, trying to hit on stars. Difference makers. Egnew if is what thought he could be, could be a target for years to come and make teh defense worry. he could be a big mismatch. Martin could solidify teh line further strengthening teh run game and setting up those quick passes. Our offense could end up being dynamic and explosive rather than dull and methodical and predictable.

    Time will tell, the approach changed my opinion, time will tell on the results
     
  8. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    Drafts are the only moves a GM makes? What about cutting Yeremiah Bell, trading for Brandon Marshall and then trading him away for less than what received, and failing to land Matt Flynn?
     
  9. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    What I saw in this draft that I find very promising is that it seems to reflect what Philbin wants. IMO Martin and Egnew in particular seemed like players that Ireland might not have drafted on his own. Tannehill and the WRs are also Philbin types, but I think they were also Ireland types. We know that Ireland was on Tannehill way before Philbin was hired and the WRs are reminiscent of Hartline. But Martin is not the mauler type the Dolphins drafted in the past and Egnew is not the blocking heavy TE that seemed to be a regime focus either. We know that before the draft Philbin talked about the impact of a seam threat and my impression was that Philbin was very high on Martin in particular. This is obviously all just my speculation, but the point is that it's incredibly important that the coach and the F.O. be on the same page. I wasn't getting a very strong feeling that they were before the draft, but that feeling is stronger now.
     
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  10. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Bell is done. Marshall move was a good one, knowing what came out afterward, of course we got less. How is failing to land Matt Flynn a bad thing when we just drafted Tannehill?
     
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  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    sure, I believe that.
     
  12. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    I think there should be a different option on the poll...My opinion hasn't changed of Ireland. I have liked what he's done, for the most part, all along. Drafting Tanny only solidified my confidence in him...now, if he could just become a bit more press and personally amicable...he'd be a complete GM...
     
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  13. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    This is spot on for me to.
     
  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This has been my stance, let's see how last years class improves, and let's see the flashes of this years class..then judge
     
  15. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    Because drafting Tannehill was Plan B. If we had landed Flynn, there would not have been a need to draft Tannehill and we could have picked up a quality player at a need position.

    BTW, why is Bell done? And they knew that Marshall was a risk in the first place.
     
  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Flynn wasn't in the plans, it's why he got the contract offer he did, true market value, he was looked at as competition...that dude is toast with Russell Wilson on that team..lol.. toast.
     
  17. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I guess I would lean toward "cautiously optimistic" - obviously we will need to see how some of these guys pan out to get a full reading. But I felt pretty much 0 confidence in him prior to the draft. With the draft in the books, I feel he tried to get the type of players Philbin wants, that he is willing to listen to others, that he is loosening up a bit.

    I'm not on his bandwagon yet, but he's shown enough that he is not fully under Parcell's old mentality to give some hope. The question will be what happens if we don't show drastic improvement. Will we be ok giving him another draft at 7-9? 8-8? What if our passing attack under Moore and the current WR fails miserably? If the defense declines? Would we be alright with letting him try to plug those holes again? I don't know, guess we need to let the season play.
     
  18. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Tannehill was plan B according to who?

    Bell was done because while he played the run well, he was an extreme liability in the passing game. Which means when he's on the field, hinders not only our defenses ability, but also hinders what our defense can run .
     
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  19. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    Why would they have sought to land Flynn if they had originally planned on drafting Tannehill anyway? That makes no sense.

    I don't recall reading that Bell was consistently burned in coverage. Remember Jason Taylor's reaction to him being cut?
     
  20. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I don't see that at all. It seems pretty obvious by how little they offered him that they saw Flynn as a guy who would compete with Moore, but not necessarily a potential franchise guy and that they saw Tannehill as a potential franchise guy. I wonder if they would have drafted Tannehill even if they had signed Flynn.

    I wouldn't say Bell is necessarily done, but he was not worth anywhere near that cap number. I think Marshall was a guy that simply didn't fit what Philbin wanted or at least prioritized relative to how high his salary was.
     
  21. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    Seattle, who eventually did land Flynn, had similar concerns.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1110369-draft-impact-seattle-seahawks-sign-matt-flynn-to-3-year-contract

     
  22. dsteve

    dsteve Banned

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    Bells career is pretty much done. If he makes a pro bowl with another team I'll eat crow but the guy was getting older and wasn't very good to begin with. Cya later.

    Marshell was a mistake. wether it was getting him in the first place or letting him go for so little you have to blame someone. He can be praised for cutting bait if you think marshell is that much of a cancer but honestly I'd rather see him here especially since we didn't turn those picks into anything special. While I like the WRs we drafted in terms of where we drafted them and what I saw them do on tape, I'd rather have drafted a project like a Hill or another second/third round talent just to have that better chance of the WR being something special.
     
  23. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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  24. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    Third round, which tend to contribute, but seen less as busts if they don't make it.
     
  25. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, third round, but the point is that from what I was hearing before the draft, Seattle saw Wilson as a potential starter. They didn't necessarily feel comfortable signing Flynn and saying their QB issues were solved.
     
  26. dsteve

    dsteve Banned

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    My view on flynn is he would have been a win now move just like manning would have been a win now move. Tannehill is a rebuilding move. Who knows what we could have seen if Flynn or Manning signed? How cool would it have been if we kept marshell, signed Flynn and drafted blackmon (moving up obviously) or floyd? Then maybe a Stephen Hill in round two. Could have easily dumped some of those late picks plus maybe a Bess/hartline to still get a decent tackle.

    Tannehill has the potential to be better than Flynn. I see Flynn as a matt shaub, matt ryan or Joe flacco not in terms of skill set but in terms of how good they can be. More than a game manager but not in the top tier like Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Eli, Brees or Rivers. Tannehills advantage over manning is obviously age. I'm not gonna say I think tanny will ever be on a manning level (he won't) but you can get a high level of play of him for longer than you'd have manning.

    In the end I think going with the rookie with the bigger upside is the better move. I don't think we'd have enough to win with Flynn unless we made some amazing moves to get some talent and I don't think I'd want to wait around and build with flynn over 3-4 seasons like I'd be willing to wait with tannehill. Seeing manning down here would have been cool for a few seasons but if you don't win a Super Bowl what's the point? Low balling Flynn was the right move IMO and the seahwaks have obviously shown they don't know what they are doing by even giving tavaris jackson a shot. Sooooo good luck to you Flynn but you're prob going no where.
     
  27. dsteve

    dsteve Banned

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    For as much as I think Matt Moore is horrible, tavaris jackson is an even bigger disaster. Atleast moore was never seen as more than a back up.
     
  28. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    Not according to the draft analysis, if so then it may be a very long reach.

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/tracker/by-round#dt-tabs:dt-by-team/dt-by-team-input:sea

     
  29. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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  30. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    Im ok with Linemen when they come with his CV. Protecting Andrew Lucks blindside is not a bad thing to have on your resume. We got a pass catching TE as well Padre. Cant block for toffee but thats not why we got him. Kaddu may also be useful. Just saying.
     
  31. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    i haven't had a problem with Ireland and I think he started last year ... but what i see is that 'he' likes playmakers - and is willing to take a few chances on them.

    Makes sense, as most agree on this site - that what we were lacking were playmakers at a handful of positions. We have several solid studs - but didn't have the 'game changers' ... this draft seems to be an attempt to satisfy that

    Martin was the only 'safe' pick in the 1st 3 X rounds ... the other 3 have high ceilings
     
  32. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    You just know his butt was chuffed over passing on Jimmy Graham and going with JJerry instead so when Egnew was there, he pounced.

    As Rafi points out, most of blocking is desire, and tbh, Shannon Sharpe was not exactly Clint Didier as a blocker either.

    Clay and Egnew give us a decent pair of Athletic Te's, toss in Fasano who is rock solid and Te/Rb really are not an issue heading into the training camp cycle.
     
  33. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    We'll see, they took Egnew with the pick, and ANY player can be productive if you feed them the ball in situations they are likely to succeed.

    I'm looking forward to seeing what happens when they go with two Te sets, does Fasano stay on the field or do we see Clay/Egnew? Line up Clay in the backfield?
     
  34. gamblerx

    gamblerx New Member

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    Not much. Seems like, to me, that he wanted to satisfy the fans and Ross. But still, it was the right move. I guess.

    Don't young QBs pass to the TE more than to WR?

    just my 2 cents, I would have taken Kuechly and then Wilson. Good pick by Seattle. Always admired Wilson.
     
  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Don't think Flynn is anywhere near as good as Flacco, he's exactly where I projected him to be, not on this team, and not getting franchise caliber money.
     
  36. dsteve

    dsteve Banned

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    Marshell wasn't force fed anything he was the only one looking to eat man. This TE they drafted is no where near the talent level of marshell. You can't deny he is a top ten WR talent and you won't see a WR drafted in the third round (what we got for him) in this draft or any in the near future that will put up the production on the field like marshell did. I'm disappointed we didn't get any big weapons on offense in terms of WRs but i also realize we aren't winning a bunch of games this year. We're still building and maybe next year we will invest in some WR talent.

    I think they use clay like a Kunn but I can see clay being lined up wide or as a traditional TE more so than kunn. (Sorry if im spelling his name wrong btw) I see clay as an Hback in that shot gun set that the packers run with clay lined up behind the guard/tackle running the flat route with egnew at the traditional TE. Fasano...well IMO he blows so keep him off the field.
     
  37. dsteve

    dsteve Banned

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    flynn has arm and brain talent way about matt moore though, lets be honest. Flacco has the bigger arm, accuracy is about the same but flynn might move a little better. I feel flacco is stunted in his growth by cam he has a great family cameron. I'm more impressed with flacco than I am with flynn but I'm also higher on flacco than most people would be. IMO flacco > matt ryan. Games like Flynn had against NE and DET will never come from the arm of matt moore no matter what team he is on or the talent around him short of an all star team against a high school team. So in response to your off topic response I say that I agree but only because I think Flacco has a chance to crack an elite level of play given the right circumstances.

    The point of my post, which you missed, is that I see flynn as a second tier QB in terms of talent. He's not going to carry every game like a Brady, Peyton, Eli, Rivers, rodgers or brees but he's also not going to be a game manger like say a trent dilfer or mark sanchez. Once in a while Flynn will be special but he will never crack the elite level IMO. Matt Moore on the other hand is nothing more than an average game manager at best. If you don't ask him to do too much he can win you some games but he's not a playoff winning quarterback due to the lack of arm talent and the fact that he's no pennington in terms of football iq.

    Tannehill has a chance to be a top tier quarterback based off his arm talent(it's better than some highly drafted qbs, see alex smith), IQ (look what he did at A&M with limited talent around him and limited reps) and "swagger". the only question mark in my mind with tannehill is how will this coaching staff devlops him.
     
  38. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Yes, definitely changes my opinion. I respect him for finally valuing the position and doing something to address it. But when he trades up to select yet another RB which is not a position of need and with rushing production not correlating highly with winning, it reminds me that I'm still not about to start a Jeff Ireland fan club :lol: .
     
  39. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I'm not crazy about the Miller pick as I was hoping for Wylie there, but I respect him for sticking with a BPA strategy there. If you look at the history of the better drafting teams, that's what you'll find them doing.
     
  40. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    That's been exactly my belief about Ireland all along. I've said several times, the best we've had since Bobby Beathard.
     

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