Mario Williams is 27, Wake will be 31. He isn't going to get 39.4 million. Especially after the reality that the cap isn't going to raise too much next season. Still this is business. Hopefully they will get Wake signed to a good contract for both sides.
Not a fan of Tannehill personally. Much prefer Weeden. Matt Moore is mediocrity defined. Will falter as a full time starter, especially since he won't be playing the pansy bottom 10 defenses he did in his last 9 games.
Heh, this is his one real shot to land a big contract, and he just watched players he'd played with since 09 waived after having their contracts torn up, why would he just trust Ireland to do the right thing? Wake is a smart man Slick, and tbh, I really do hope he does hold out, or sort of jacks up Ireland as some of the stuff Ireland has done deserves some karmic payback imho.
I'm guessing 4 year/$55 million, $25 guaranteed, hopefully incentive-based and w/a good escape after 2 years if needed.
He does know he won't get 39 million from the Dolphins, and that is what matters in this situation. Let Ireland explain it to the fans, this should be fun.
Right, but my point here is that VJax spent two years wrangling away. Cam Wake doesn't have two years. He'll be 32 by then. Nobody in their right mind would give a 32 yr old $40M.
You know by now, that all that matters in these deals is the upfront, bonus money, money he shall never see from the Dolphins. This only makes holding out that much more attractive. As for age, we'll see, Peppers was what..30 when he signed that deal with the Bears?
Exactly. And to be clear, I think Wake is more valuable to Miami than other teams, mainly because of leadership and most importantly, continuity. But at the same time the Dolphins are in a great situation with Wake, and they must take advantage.
I don't even know what you're trying to say there. Wake knows he's going to be paid a considerable amount of money either way. The only question is does he care about being paid as much as those other guys. lol If you say so, judge. I just wonder why Soliai decided to stay here and take a discount for us then? Seems strange if Ireland is such a bastard.
Not nearly as bad as the 6 bottom 10 defenses he played in his last 9 games last year. There's quite a few very good defenses on our schedule. Granted, anything can happen. The Texans can be a huge flop on defense next year, but then again the Bills could be a lethal defense, and we play them twice. I guess all I'm saying is, keep your expectations in check. Expecting playoffs with Matt Moore throwing to Brian Hartline is a tad bit ridiculous imo. Expect the worst. Hope for the best. We should be used to this by now.
Wake holds all the cards here, mainly because this is his best shot at a long term, cash upfront deal, we have little leverage to use on him. Peppers was..31 when the Bears signed him.
I don't think this is a fair comparison. Abraham is much more long in the tooth than Wake. Wake is 30, but a young 30.
What leadership? Cam Wake has many talents. Leadership is apparently not among them. Jason Taylor and Yeremiah Bell were the defensive leaders last season.
We have the leverage that we can hold on to him for 2 more years and it will only cost $12.6M. His only leverage is holding out, but even then he's not dumb enough to miss the season and push back free agency from 2013 to 2014.
Wake couldn't make it with another NFL team before he went to the CFL. His original contract was fair but now he deserves a better contract.
Probably. That was more conjecture than anything based on concrete fact. He might not have been one of the leaders of the team, but that doesn't mean he doesn't display leadership qualities. From everything I've seen he's generally had a great attitude, played hard, said the right things, etc. And while it seems pretty standard to us for anyone to do that, in the NFL there are plenty of talented players that don't display those things.
None of those attributes combine to form leadership. Leadership is an entirely different thing and has little to do with talent. So while Cam Wake might be a great "example" guy for the coaches to point to, that doesn't make him a leader. Not to say that's a negative, just that it's true.
Not really, all it would mean is he is risking a franchise tag 2 yrs from now, for an athlete 2 yrs is an eternity.
Cam deserves 5 year $42.0M with 26M guaranteed. For reference, James Harrison got 6 year 51.0M with 20.0M guaranteed when he was 30. With Cam, the more you guarantee him, the harder he'll work b/c Cam is all about respect & honor. Reward his hard work and he'll bleed even more for you in appreciation. If we don't, we could run into a DeSean Jackson type scenario where a highly passionate player feels jilted causing him to temporarily lose his fire for the game.
No he didn't. He could of turned around a talentless roster had they rebuilt. But they didn't. That 2008 season was the worst thing that could of happened to us. They let a fluke season get to their heads and they decided to stop rebuilding after one season and try to build a winner with a still talentless roster. Now here we are, still in need of a total rebuild.
that's not how you handle Wake. You don't objectify or screw over extremely passionate & emotional players like Cam. He'll give up on you on the field to spite you just like DeSean Jackson did.
Exactly. The guy is the definition of a workhorse. We'd be smart to put a ton of incentives for him to keep aiming for.
once again, you're spewing criticism without actually checking the facts. -between 2007 and 2009, the whole roster was rebuilt: - 3 new QBs - 9/11 starters on offense were new (Ronnie and Ricky were still same) - additional role players on offense (WR) also turned over with Bess and Hartline - all 5 O linemen changed (includes Carey moving LT to RT) - 3/4 defensive linemen were new - 2/4 linebackers were new - 3/4 secondary were new (4/4 if you include Bell getting hurt) so, while a criticism that not all the new players were upgrades might be valid, your statement of lack of turnover is without any fact.
That wasn't his argument. I know he said that, but he didn't say it. Duh. He was talking about how Ireland forced Vick to fight dogs.
You haven't seen him feeling jilted. You've only seen the charismatic, passionate, fiery, OCD'ish Cam who was obsessed about succeeding and proving himself in the NFL, just as people initially saw from Jackson. Now, Cam's proven himself, so his initial motivation isn't the same anymore. He needs to find a new form of motivation to keep that passion, fire, charisma, and OCD'ish mentality toward his continued success from dissolving. For a guy like Cam, you do that by showing your appreciation and giving him a new goal to work for b/c there's a lot of mental energy involved in what Cam does. When Cam likes what he's doing, that mental energy is nothing; it's enjoyable. When you unmotivate him, then it becomes taxing and daunting to maintain that same level of mental energy & dedication. In Cam's case that new goal would be in the form of allowing Cam to prove to himself and to Miami that he's worthy of such a quality new contract. For guys like DeSean & Cam, that passion and fire doesn't just disappear; it can change forms and go from being positive in nature to negative. Watch how DeSean performs this year now that Philly rewarded his hard work and performance. DeSean's gonna be a heartbeat for that team and will be back to max effort and positive passion. It's not about the money for these 2 guys; it's about what the money represents---- appreciation. The money is of symbolic nature to these two. I'm telling you, you don't want to see Cam feeling jilted and subsequently watch all his positive passion turn negative and his high level of mental energy disappear.
Turning over the roster is exactly that. Turning over the roster. It's not rebuilding. Rebuilding is building the team, shaping the team into a contender. We never got that. They started off signing Justin Smiley and Randy Starks to big deals and drafted Long over Ryan. They also gave a decent deal to Ernest Wilford. That's turning over the roster. Because rebuilding teams don't make those types of deals. After the fluke 2008 season, they just said **** it and went full win now mode. They gave a huge deal to Jake Grove. Rebuilding teams don't do that. They gave two 2nd round picks for Brandon Marshall. That's what a team that thinks they're a WR away from contention does. Rebuilding teams acquire picks, not give them away. We signed Dansby to a massive deal. We never rebuilt. We simply traded away a talentless roster for a different talentless roster, and then tried to build a winner out of this talentless roster when we went 11-5. It failed and we're still in need of a true rebuild. Rebuilding the right way. By getting rid of higher priced players that don't fit into future plans, and then saving the cap space until we're ready to contend, and can use it to patch up the roster where need fit. Saving that cap space to lock up the young guys that fit in the long term plans. You allow your youngsters to play. You're not going to see the results on the field for 2-3 seasons. But you'll have acquired enough talent in this time, including a Franchise QB, to contend for the next 15 years. That's rebuilding.
You won't see it happen with Cam. He doesn't have the luxury that Jackson did. He doesn't have a long career ahead of him. He has a few more years max. He's looking forward to be franchised a lot more than you believe.
Double Edit: Oops wrong edit. I think you are making too many jumps to conclusions and guesses. I haven't seen DeSean play with the anger of being jilted and turn his life around with that as with Cam.
Actually. You don't give him incentives. That's the wrong approach with Cam. You gotta know the mentality & psyche of the person you're dealing with, and that's not always easy and can backfire if matched up incorrectly. In Cam's individual case, giving him an incentive based contract would leave him feeling like it's a slap in his face. He'd feel like you don't trust him enough to reward what his previous dedication & accomplishment, and that would be a good way to break his spirit & demoralize him. Some guys need the motivation of incentives, not Cam. In Cam's case, paying him a high guaranteed amount would serve as his greatest form of motivation b/c he's the type of person who will feel like he let himself down if he doesn't prove to himself that he's earned every penny of it. That's it. He's the EASIEST contract on the planet. You almost don't even need your attorney involved with him. It'd simply be, "Cam, here's $40 million over 4 years with every penny guaranteed. Sign here please.". That's it. Done. You just showed Cam the ultimate respect, and in return he'll show you the ultimate form of appreciation by dedicating the next 4 years to football just as he has since 2009. The only way incentives play in would be to throw a few fun bonus numbers in on top of Cam's high guaranteed amount. If you guaranteed Cam $40 million (with maybe an injury escape clause), then you could throw on little bonuses like an immediate $1,000 check per sack and Cam would absolutely relish every one of those extra thousand dollar checks. He's the kind of guy who wouldn't even cash them; they'd be like trophies for him which he'd probably pin up on the wall or tape inside his locker. TBH, it could be a check for one dollar and Cam would eat em up like Skittles with a huge smile every time one was handed to him. That's how you deal treat Cam. In a post game interview after a 4 sack game, someone could ask Cam, "Cam what was your motivation for this performance?" .... and Cam would be like, "I was fightin for my bonus!"..... and the reporter would follow it up with, "What was the bonus?"...... and Cam would be like, [huge grin] "A dollar per sack!"
I'm not making too many jumps to conclusions and guesses. With all due respect, please don't confuse any of this with your inability to read people at a high level. I hate when people do that. If I don't understand advanced calculus, I'm not gonna tell someone who does that their answer is full of guesses and conclusions just b/c I don't understand it. I think you're forgetting that I broke down specific reasons why Cam would become an impact NFL player before even putting on a Dolphin uniform, and much of that had to do with understanding his psyche. I don't even know what you're trying to say here b/c this part of your statement has nothing to do with Cam's contract situation. I'm not comparing DeSean to Cam; I'm comparing what might potentially happen with Cam to what we saw from DeSean in 2011.
