Jerry Jones, Charley Casserly and Gil Brandt come to defense of Ireland and Ross

I wouldn't say "unheard of". Just the year before his brother was taken at #18 and Iupati was taken at #17. Brandon Albert went at #15 in '08. This year I've seen Decastro listed as a desired pick at #8 by posters here and the draft muncher has him as the most common selection at #11. IMO it has to be a player you consider special. Seeing as how Maurkice Pouncey was a pro bowler taken at #18 and most had Mike rated above him, I don't see Mike going three picks earlier as an unreasonable value.

 

In 14 years. Close enough.

 

Nice. Missed the entire point.

The difference between 15 & 18 is completely 100% arbitrary. Notice how you are adding new conditions to make your stance mean something. For example, Pitts, can do it, because they are already good which is completely different than no one does it.

No one will agree with you on the Meggett/Bush thing. No one.

You can't keep making the argument either Ireland agreed with everything or he did nothing. Its a stupid, illogical argument, where the parameters were generated by you, and in case you haven't noticed, you have no inside info. There are more possibilities in that spectrum. Following your "logic" its either 100 degrees or 0 degrees.

 

Albert is a tackle. As for Decastro, he's one of the best interior OL prospects I've ever seen. He's one of the very, very few interior OL who deserve to be taken high. One of the very, very few OL prospects even I wouldn't mind taking. And I certainly don't agree that most had Mike rated above Maurkice. Like I said, it wasn't a bad pick. It was a weak draft, and he was one of the BPA at that pick. Personally I was hoping for Amukamara, Ryan Kerrigan, or a trade down. But it's still a prototypical Parcells pick.

 

No, guard Branden Albert was selected at #15 by KC in 2008.

 

They selected him as a LT though.

 

He either made decisions in the front office, the vast majority having been bad decisions, or he stood around doing nothing. Either way the team is devoid of talent and losing under him as a GM. Should of been fired with the rest of Parcell's cronies.

 

He's their starting LT.

 

You're just looking for something to ***** about. Damien Woody and Steve Hutchinson were both taken 17th. Maurkice Pouncey was taken 18th. The difference between that and 15th is just splitting hairs. Two centers have recently been drafted 21st. Also not enough difference to make such a big deal about. Two tackles taken higher than 15th since 2000 were both moved to guard early in their careers and one guard taken 15th was moved to tackle. You can figure out who they were.

Do you think Pittsburgh would have passed on Maurkice if they had been picking 15th? No ******* way.

 

If its a Parcells pick, you'd think there were a lot of other centers picked by Parcells in the first round:

1983' Terry Kinard, Defensive Back- Clemson
1984' Carl Banks, Outside Linebacker- Michigan State
1985' George Adams, Running back- Kentucky
1986' Eric Dorsey, Defensive End- Notre Dame
1987' Mark Ingram, Wide Receiver- Michigan State
1988' Eric Moore, Offensive Guard- Indiana
1989' Brian Williams, Center- Minnesota
1990' Rodney Hampton, Running Back- Georgia

Retired, Football analyst for NBC Sports from 1991–1992

Head Coach for the Patriots
1993' Drew Bledsoe, Quarterback- Washington State
1994' Willie McGinest, Linebacker- USC
1995' Ty Law, Defensive Back- Michigan
1996' Terry Glenn, Wide Receiver- Ohio State

Left the Patriots due to the fact owner Robert Kraft made BP take Terry Glenn, when BP wanted to draft a defensive player.

Head Coach/ GM for the Jets
1997' James Farrior, Linebacker- Virginia
1998'-1999' No picks
2000a' Shaun Ellis, Defensive End- Tennessee
2000b' John Abraham, Defensive End- South Carolina
2000c' Chad Pennington, Quarterback- Marshall
2000d' Anthony Becht, Tight End- West Virginia

Retired from football for the second time

Cowboys Head Coach
2003' Terence Newman, Cornerback- Kansas State
2004' No pick
2005a' DeMarcus Ware, Linebacker- Troy
2005b' Marcus Spears, Defensive End- LSU
2006' Bobby Carpenter, Linebacker- Ohio State

Dolphins GM
2008' Jake Long, Offensive tackle- Michigan
2009' Vontae Davis. Cornerback- Illinois

It looks like Williams in 1989. So, that effectively destroys your stance that picking Pouncey was a Parcells move. Are you big enough to admit you were wrong about that one thing?

 

Its like talking to a child that has eaten too much paste.

Why do you refuse to admit that Parcells told Ireland to get players that follow his blueprint? Why can't you even entertain that as a possibility?

Does a carpenter just build without the blueprints? I mean c'mon, be a human being for just a second and think about this.

 

You don't even need to include Brian Williams because Parcells didn't have final say on the Giants draft picks when he was there. George Young did. I doubt any of us really even know how much input Parcells was allowed either for that matter.

Parcells didn't participate in our 2011 draft anyway. Pouncey was totally a Jeff Ireland pick, and there wasn't a darned thing wrong with it. We got a guy who was a Pro Bowl alternate as a rookie, and some people are going to complain about it.

 

I would say that Ryan Kerrigan would have been the prototype pick under Parcells. That's actually not my opinion. Parcells did a draft special before that draft where he talked about his prototype philosophy and he specifically mentioned Kerrigan as a guy he liked in that first round. He wasn't speaking as a Dolphin GM so nobody can say what pick he meant or whether he would have traded down if he were at #15.

From what I recall he never mentioned a preference for taking OL early. He history would indicate a preference for DL more than anything else. I don't see Pouncey as a Parcells prototype other than he liked big mobile OL.

As for the Pouncey pick, I agree it was a weak draft and I had him as the BPA at that point. I never say that a team should have traded down since we simply don't have enough info to know if it was possible.

 

But he was considered a G coming out since he'd played almost his whole college career at G. I'm sure some believed he had the feet for T since he had two starts at T due to an injury to starting T Eugene Moore but he was listed as G in all the draft stuff and that is where most teams reportedly had him.

 

Branden Albert was very commonly thought to move to LT. Most people recognized that the only reason he didn't play there at UVA was because of Eugene Monroe.

The Chiefs took him as a tackle.

 

and who would you have taken over a franchise Center, the 2nd most important position on the oline?

 

Close enough when you think it supports some sort of lame argument you're trying to make.

 

haven't the Chiefs been looking for a way to move him back to guard ever since?

 

Can you recall who Virginia had a RT during that time? I remember as you do, that most people seemed to believe Albert could play LT even though he was the LG for the Cavs. Wonder why they didn't use him at RT though, unless he cannot kick slide to his right, or they also had a really good player there.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they are. He gets flagged an awful lot and is really just a middling left tackle. I think he's one you can by with though, and if they would like to move him inside, I doubt it's a high priority for them.

 

What happens next season will go a long way in me finalizing my opinion of Ireland.
No more Parcells crutch.
No more "bad coaching" crutch.
Unfortunately, so far this offseason I've seen no reason we'll be any better than the 6-10 or 7-9 we've been since Ireland go here. In fact, at this point, I'd be surprised if we get to 6-7 wins.
C'mon Jeff, prove me wrong.

 

Dunno, I've not heard of it

 

That's how I saw Albert, as a G who could play T in a pinch. I did not see him as having any star potential at T. I saw (and still see) elite C potential for Pouncey. That's why I was good with that pick. I see C as an important position due to all the A-gap blitzes in today's game, arguably the second most important OL position (if you catch me in the right move, I might even argue it's more important than LT). I don't complain about drafting a potential top 5 talent at such an important position.

 

Amukamara or Kerrigan would of been my pick. Pass rushers and CB's are far more important than Center in today's NFL.

 

I'm not making a big deal out of anything. Drafting a lineman in an NFL where QB's, offensive playmakers, and guys who stop these like CB's and pass rushers are of the utmost importance, is the definition of an outdated philosophy, like that seen with Parcells. I have no problem with the pick, as I've stated numerous times, just refuting the notion that Ireland somehow stepped away from Parcel's philosophy last year.

 

But you didn't refute it, you've solidified it.

You claim taking Pouncey at 15 is a Parcells move. It isn't. That has actually been refuted.

 

It's a move someone living in the past would make. Kind of like taking Jake Long with Matt Ryan staring you in the face. A Parcells move. Better yet, it's a Carl Peterson move. Afterall, he's a Peterson disciple not a Parcells disciple, right Jerry Jones? Build up that line like Peterson did in KC with Waters, Roaf, Shields, etc. Then fail to win a playoff game. Parcells at least has a history of taking CB's and pass rushers. Ireland needs to take a page out of that book, especially the latter.

 

WTF are you even talking about now?

 

The article that this thread was created for. We're sitting here talking Parcells when, It's Carl Peterson that Jerry Jones claims Ireland takes after.

Either way, regardless of where they were drafted, building up the lines has always been a Parcells, and Peterson philosophy. Needing to look in the first round for lineman when Parcells, and even Peterson, and pretty much every elite team in the NFL, find their linemen out of the first round, is just another sign of a horrible GM.

 

We'll find out soon enough who's right or wrong. Personally, I'm much more concerned with the other bozo running things. When Jeff is inevitably fired, Ross may very well bring in Carl Peterson. I'd rather have Jeff Ireland than Carl Peterson, which is saying a hell of a lot. Then again, Ross did bring in Philbin, when Ireland wanted that idiot Dan Henning/John Fox disciple Mike McCoy to continue with his outdated philosophy. So maybe there's a chance afterall.

 

Ross also wanted a. to hire Jim Harbaugh b. to replace Tony Sparano. And he also wasn't willing to bend over for Jeff Fisher—good thing, given the Gregg Williams mess.

We can complain about Ross' execution, but I think there's ample evidence that his instincts are pretty good.

 

Maybe so. But he also kept Sparano while looking for his replacement. That makes he and the team look awful. He kept Ireland when he should of been fired along with Sparano. Celebrated the opposing teams starting QB.

On the other hand, Steve Ross also shot down the Kyle Orton trade. Jury's still out on Ross. But his relationship with Carl Peterson is worrisome.

 

I don't value CBs as highly as Cs. Pass rushers, I do value more highly, but I wouldn't have taken Kerrigan over Pouncey. I had Pouncey as a potential top 5 at his position. I didn't have Kerrigan rated that highly.

 

So, pass rushers are important, but the guys who try to stop the pass rushers are not important?

 

First you say, that was their philosophy to find linemen in the 1st round. Now you say they find them out of the 1st round. Please make up your mind.

 

I never said that. The guys who try to stop the pass rushers can easily be found outside of the first round, as evidenced by looking at the rosters of all the top teams throughout the last few years. That's the point. I made a post about this not too long ago. Of the last 14 Superbowl teams, only 2 first round left tackles, Walter Jones (6th overall) on the losing Seahwaks, and John Tait (14th overall) on the losing Bears. Drafting million dollar linemen to block for 2 cent QB's will win you nothing.

 

I said their philosophy was to build up the lines. I made this pretty clear in post 147. I never said anything about rounds, other than taking an interior OL with a top 15 pick, is a clear indicator of Jeff Ireland agreeing with this philosophy.

 

He wanted to replace Sparano and eventually fired him. I don't see a problem with this. That goes double for not firing Sparano while interviewing Harbaugh; you're nuts if you think that's uncommon or somehow unique in the NFL. Tampering among coaches is universal. It's even praised when someone like Bill Parcells does it, such as when he imported a bunch of Dallas coaches to Miami.

Simultaneously, he chose the better franchise structure, a general manager with final say instead of giving Philbin or Fisher final say. This is the correct decision even if Jeff Ireland is not a good GM.

I hated Gator Day as well, but that's a gross distortion of what actually happened. Also, blame Nat Moore for coming up with the idea. Lastly, Ross wanted to honor the Hurricanes as well, but they declined.

Agreed, but in my view, the jury is unlikely to convict.

Disagreed. Carl Peterson isn't involved with football operations. We've been wringing our hands about this since 2009 and it's time we stop.

 

Ross has reportedly consulted Peterson on several football decisions, including our search for a HC, so that's not true. And there's not a single other time I can remember an owner actively courting a new HC with one still in place. Great way to lose the respect of a large number of coaches, especially established ones like Cowher or Gruden, that you might want to hire. As for Gator Day, it's not about Miami, it's about celebrating the opposing teams starting QB, and giving incentive to Bronco/Tebow fans to buy the seats that the fed up Dolphins fans aren't purchasing. As for keeping Ireland. Giving final say to a GM is the right move, but we had plenty of time to find a competent one.

 

This is getting beyond ridiculous. Ireland has done nothing to gain this criticism and has become the ultimate scapegoat. I feel bad for the guy.

Even a "competent" GM can't pull a franchise QB out of his holly jolly magic ***crack.