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Exactly what I've been saying since Brandon was traded.. Are we rebuilding?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Bumrush, Mar 15, 2012.

  1. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    My point being, we have had any timer to answer the questions yet. At the start of camp, make your pitch, doing it right now though, comes across as reactionary and "time of the monthy".
     
  2. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    Unless you're willing to say Parcells - and not Ireland - made ALL moves prior to March 24th, 2011, Ireland should still have culpability. He's not completely absolved of all blame just because there were two guys making decisions.

    You guys are acting like Ireland had nothing to do with anything prior to Parcells leaving.
     
  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I think 3 (while being in charge) is fair, if there's improvement. Do you find that ridiculous? Still waiting on answer too.
     
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  4. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Right, but can you honestly tell me which of the moves were Ireland's and which were Parcells?
     
  5. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    We didn't get the highest paid FA for this offseason?

    Well then we must be rebuilding!


    And no I don't think anyone should really need to have why we got rid of Marshall explained again at this point.
     
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  6. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    Does it matter if it's mostly bad? Unless they butted heads on every pick (outside of Long), Ireland has to have culpability. Think about it - Ireland and Parcells had to agree on most of those guys, right? Thus Ireland "signed off" on them.
     
  7. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    You and I might feel that way, a lot of fans may but Ross apparently doesn't feel that way about Irish... The thing is, we really can't tell with any certainty what moves he orchestrated and which were orchestrated for us by and under the influence of others... You're right, you can't praise Irish for moves made that were good and not ones that were bad, equivocally, you can't fire him for bad moves since we can't really tell which were his and which were not...

    I'm not defending Irish, I'm just sayin'....
     
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  8. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    So far, technically it's been one year...is that long enough ?? I don't think so since most pundits agree that 3 yrs is the time to evaluate a draft class....
     
  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I don't think the only good move was Long, first of all. Secondly, no they didn't have to agree. Ireland was given a blueprint. A blueprint we all know about...the Parcells blueprint. If Ireland followed the blueprint correctly, the building can still topple because the architect had bad plans. Ireland found and bought the groceries he was told to.
     
  10. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Ok, so he's a year into his tenure under those circumstances, and even that year has an asterisk by it because of the lockout and abbreviated FA period....so I'd even go as far as to say this is his real first offseason towards evaluation...and it's only 3 days old...
     
  11. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    You can't have it both ways. Like Larry said above - you either credit him with the failures, or you do not credit him with the successes. Point being there have been many failures in the personnel department and you're unwilling to place any blame at the foot of the guy who's supposed to be responsible for that.

    If it's not Ireland, can we agree that Parcells is rubbish? I mean, BOTH can't be absolved completely...
     
  12. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    ^^ this no we aren't rebuilding because we got rid of marshall. marshall had problems. That's all it was. That's all it is. just like at any job there comes a point where despite an employees talents, their attitude/personal life can become a hinderance to the employer. Rather or not you believe marshall was at that point, you can not say there wasn't reason.
     
  13. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    I'm all in on 3 years. Let's talk about Ireland in 2 more years.
     
  14. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Dude, free agency started 2 days ago. Have some freaking patience.

    We are not rebuilding.
     
  15. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Sure it does. The rumors at the time were that Ireland wanted Ryan over Long (which I don't agree with but some here do), Parcells wanted White (obviously a mistake) and that Ireland was primarily responsible for Wake, Bess and Marshall (three moves I agreed with). The rest of the moves we don't have much info beyond Parcells had final say. And I liked the draft after Parcells was gone. So by my count, Ireland was responsible for some of the biggest success (Bess, Wake and Marshall), not the biggest failure (White) and a draft I liked. The rest is a mystery. I think its simplistic thinking to just blame Ireland for everything when you lack the facts on those and you have some facts that show positives. I have been critical of Ireland and will continue to be, but I'm not going to blame him for things I know he didn't have final say over.
     
  16. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I didn't credit him with anything.

    Think of it like this.

    Parcells the Chef comes in and says to Ireland I need bread, tuna and grape jelly for my recipe. Ireland goes out and finds the best version of bread, tuna & jelly he can find and he does it with out spending more money then he was given.

    This gets built into a tunafish and jelly sandwich and its disgusting. Who is to blame?
     
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  17. Bulldog

    Bulldog New Member

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    Great post!
     
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  18. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Ok. Fair enough. 3 years. I can't promise I won't take my jabs, but come 2 years I'll look to see if Ireland is still getting a pass if Dolphins haven't made the playoffs. Assuming he still has a job by then.
     
  19. Bulldog

    Bulldog New Member

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    Another great post. Let me add to it. Some here seem to forget that with better coaching, we would mostly likely have had better seasons with the talent here. The GM can bring in the players, but he can't coach them up. And ALL players need coaching up. Coaching, IMO, is the biggest reason this franchise has been in the crapper over the last 11 years. Lack of any stability, including coaching changes, QB changes, etc...is the second biggest. And either not developing a QB or finding a good to great QB is the 3rd.
     
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  20. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    I never blamed him for a specific move, I'm just tired of all the defending. I'm just saying he can't be absolved of all blame simply because he worked with Parcells. He's still the GM, and those who defend Ireland won't criticize Parcells either. That part is frustrating. The bad moves were no one's fault because we don't know which guy did them?
     
  21. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    I'd like to hear your answer. I know mine.
     
  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Lol, you don't know what my answer would be? Wow.

    Parcells, very obviously.
     
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  23. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    I knew. Just wanted to see you say it. ;) :up:

    I blame both, FWIW
     
  24. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    Do you really expect them to make no further moves this offseason? I'm sorry that the offseason doesn't last an hour like it does in a video game.
     
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  25. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Also, obviously you blame both. I just don't understand how? You don't have any evidence.
     
  26. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    Easy. Track record. You can't have a bad track record and nobody at fault. Who was in charge? Those two guys. Ergo, those two guys are at fault. You can single out specific moves we know about as rafael has, and that's fine. But they both have had screw ups. Ireland has hit on a few FA's as well, I'll give him credit for that.

    All I'm saying is they're not absolved of all blame.
     
  27. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    You're allowed to assign blame to whomever you choose. Thats your right. You can blame the waterboy even.

    But personally I'm not judging Ireland based solely on the W/L record. I'm judging him on the talent he brings in and the coaches he brings in. IMO I think he's done a solid job on both fronts.
     
  28. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Even if you place responsibility for everything on Ireland, his record still stacks up against the best GMs in the league. The reality is that he hasn't drafted a good QB, which has been the biggest problem. But there hasn't been much available in terms of that position.
     
  29. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    During Parcells time here, Ireland did not have say. That is fact. They weren't both in charge, only Parcells was.
     
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  30. Bulldog

    Bulldog New Member

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    So true! The lack of a QB and being forced into keeping Sparano so long. It's not easy to find a good QB in this league. Nearly half the league is using a QB with about the same skills as we have been using. Add to the fact that we have had horrible coaching and you get a recipe for disaster.

    If Philbin is the coach that most think he is, we will see a dramatic turnaround for this franchise even with the talent we currently have.
     
  31. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    All Right... you were a Wing Wiper.... when a senior officer told you do do something with which you did not agree - did he or she wait for you to sign off on it before it began to be accomplished AND how far did you go to protest something with which you disagreed - or did you shut your mouth, cuss under your breath, and do what was ordered anyway? Don't know about you, but when the suit with the gold stars or bars on it says do it... it gets done no matter how much anyone under their command objects. Works the same way in business. Parcells had final command. He set the policy and standards. What Parcells really wanted, you can bet he got. What he allowed them to do had to agree with his philosophy. He really reminds me of Philip Francis Queeg!

     
  32. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Problem is that the current [re]build has been ongoing now, what, 12+ years?
     
  33. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    Let's take it a step further.. If you polled this forum about Henne going in to the 2010 season, I'm willing to bet at least 95% of us were sold on Henne being that long sought after franchise QB.. Parcells saw something we were unwilling to see.. Can you really blame the team for sticking with Henne given what he did on the field after Pennington went down? I'd say Henne deserved to start last year as well.. So blaming Ireland for our QB woes is unfair as well. Sh*t happens sometimes.
     
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  34. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Honestly?

    Nope, some low ball signings, lots of talk about the draft and "camp competition", we may sign Flynn, may not.

    How many times do we have to see this Griddles?
     
  35. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Im usually one of the more up beat fans, but this off season just smells of trash in the making
     
  36. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Can't say that yet, see then there is the Draft, and of course they "need time to adjust to the NFL" when they don't contribute, and of course they would very much like us to go into 2013 with the same "oh but this yr" stuff.
     
  37. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No, you're right, now is the perfect time to judge our off season. Sigh.
     
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  38. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    Paul Soliai is "relatively worthless"? Just...wow. This board has hit a new low.
     
  39. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Ok, let me be on record of saying I never like the Parcells hire, didn't like him while he was here and still don't like him or the way he quit on us...I know, I'm just one person and I'm not a majority, but I've been critical of Parcells all along...As far as I'm concerned he was responsible for ALL of it since he was the MFWIC at that time...
     
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  40. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Take your pick:

    "It's a passing league"

    "It's a Qb driven league"

    Which one does Soliai help against?
     

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