Cam Newton signed a $22.0M contract as the #1 pick, so I'm guessing Griffin signs for close to the same. Kevin Kolb signed a $65.0M contract, so I'm guessing Flynn will be looking for close to the same. Marshall cost us $47.0M in FA. You might've noticed the difference between Newton & Kolb's contract is nearly enough to pay for Brandon. Yes, Miami would have to sacrifice some valuable picks to move up for Griffin, but the saved cap money is certainly enough to buy an impact player like Avril or Reggie Nelson who can step in and immediately play at a high level, where as if we keep our 1st rounders, not only do we have to wait for them to develop (provided they do) but one of them won't arrive until 2013. Plus if we draft well (which I think Ireland can), we can trade back some picks to help counter the ones we'd lose moving up to #2. Therefore the net impact isn't as terrible as it seems on the surface. Just throwing it out there in case it hasn't been mentioned.
All you're doing is flipping situations really. It is either: 1. sign high price FA QB and build team through draft 2. trade away picks for QB and build team through high price FA (not QB) 6 of one, half dozen of another. It is really preference. The reality is Dolphins most realistic situation is sign Flynn and build through the draft. Doubt Miami has enough to move up for RG3, I think he is going to Cleveland.
In a QB driven league the "flipping situations" might favor the situation featuring the more promising QB.
Which is who? ...........That is the 65 million dollar question. And I'm not sure it is going to matter because I honestly don't think Miami has enough to trade to get up to that #2 spot anyways. Seems pretty obvious Cleveland is in the drivers seat for RG3 just in terms of value they can give up to get him.
If Holmgren wants Griffin there really isn't anything Ireland can do about it. Let's say, just for laughs, he opts for Flynn. Now you're in a bidding war with Snyder. How far is he willing to go?
Snyder has actually been pretty prudent with signings in recent years. True they could get desperate, but Ross has shown he is willing to spend if he wants a guy too.
If Atlanta can pay a ransom to move up from 26 to draft a WR, Miami can certainly move up from 8 for a QB..... if they want to. I don't think there's a question of which QB we'd want out of Flynn or Griffin. If we were sitting 2nd in the draft I seriously doubt we pass on Griffin to sign Flynn.
That wasn't my question. You asked which QB has more promise.....and I said thats the 65M question. Hype says RG3 but you never know, Flynn may be head and shoulders better then its all said and done. Not to mention Atlanta gave up alot, and that still isn't near as much as what Cleveland can give up. What Atlanta gave up was: When you give up future picks, the nfl considers that a pick a round later in terms of value. So the trade they gave up is sort of like giving up one 1st, two 2nd, one 4th, one 5th. Now that is alot for sure, but isn't better than giving up two 1sts this year plus maybe next years 2nd. Cleveland can just offer more if they want and nobody is close. STL trading back with Cleveland and they prob still get Blackmon and a 2nd 1st tound pick. Trade with miami and they are have to reach on a 1st round WR because nobody has value at 8, and dont get that immediate second 1st. It is possible that Miami moves up....not likely.
Washington's huge cap space coupled with Snyder's constant desire to "win now" and infatuation with quick fixes might make the Skins inclined to bow out and instead pursue Manning & a supporting cast of FAs Dan feels can win him a SB next February. Added, Cleveland is in rebuilding mold, so it's not outlandish that they opt for Flynn in order to keep their 2 firsts to continue the rebuild, and considering the their recent draft success, I wouldn't rule it out b/c their confidence in talent selection might be elevated.
To me the Dolphins best draft day scenerio is them trading their 8th pick to Washington so they can get RG3 and in return we get their 2nd rd pick this year and their 1st n 2nd next year giving us good postion in the next draft to either target Barkley if we are still hunting for a QB or build around whoever we get this year if he looks like he has promise.
I'm not sure I'd classify $100 million for Fat Albert followed by $78 for McNabb as prudent. IMO Snyder's like a jonesing crackhead if he can't spend money.... and it's possible he spent little last year in order to save up for one big splash this year. Ross paid as much for an in-their-prime Marshall & Dansby as Snyder did for 34 year old McNabb (if incentives were reached).
Cleveland is in a partial rebuild, so IMO they aren't going to want to enter a bidding war that will cost them part of their rebuild outside the QB position.
Exactly, you've named 1 big deal. McRib's deal was not a big deal and was all phony money. He was never ever going to see that money. It was basically a 1 year deal for like 5M and if they were going to keep him for anything longer than that he would have to restructure. He was never ever going to see that money and i don't consider a 1yr 5M deal a big spending deal.
If we're knowingly out of the RG3 race, I'd give up our #8 to the Skins for a slew of picks. At least that would put Griffin in the NFC rather than us competing with both Luck AND Griffin for a SB appearance the next dozen plus years.
Youre right there is no question...If it costs us 2 1sts (this year and next), a 2 and 3 this year, and a 3 next year (which is slightly more then the NYG paid for Eli due to the fact that the NYG were moving up 3 spots and we're moving up 6) then I take Flynn without thinking twice. I like RG3. I really do. Id almost rather have him then Tannehill but not at that cost especially when i think Flynn will be a 4000yard/30TD/15INT guy in this system. Its not even a debate.
that would normally be the case, but the more picks you give up the more difficult the rebuild becomes, so their breaking point might actually be lower than ours. They can still build around Flynn so it's not like they'd lose out on a QB.
Personally, I'd take Griffin & re-sign Soliai with the savings..... and then work the draft like a son of a gun trading back our 2nd this year to perhaps recoup next year's 2nd or 3rd..... and then work next year's draft to pick up an extra 3rd.
I think if Miami moves up to grab RG3 then I think Cleveland knows they have to go with Colt which I'm not sure they want to do. I just dont see a FA like Flynn signing in Cleveland and Cleveland is desperate for a new QB as is Washington.
If Cleveland's in a partial rebuild then I'm not sure why they'd want a QB who will be retired by the time they're ready to make a SB run, and with Holmgren running the show, Flynn seems like a great fit for them.
I still believe our chances of landing Griffin is slight, but I think the cap saving makes this possibility higher than if we're looking at the 2010 draft where RG3 would see a $70 million contract. Also, Miami openly saying "the cost to move up might be too steep" is exactly what you'd say when you're bluffing and want to play the takeaway card with the hopes of minimizing the Rams' ridiculous leverage.
Who you talking about? Perhaps you read Colt and thought I meant former Colt (Peyton) when I was actually referring to Colt McCoy. Ya zero chance Peyton is going to Cleveland which is why they have limited options. They go with Colt or move up for RG3. No big FA QB is going to Cleveland.
yeah, I thought you were talking about Peyton for a moment, mainly b/c I don't see how McCoy enters the picture when Cleveland's gotta be a front runner to add either Flynn to a system that fits him or RG3.
I think the complete & immediate answer is Manning/Tannehill @ 8 for 2012 having said that I would be in favor of moving up to go after Griffin in the draft, if that were not the case we have to resolve the QB issue in 2012 the team is ready to step up & compete, with very few needs. we will probably not get another opportunity to put to rest this problem for a long time to come we go no where without a Franchise quality QB
All we can do is figure out how much we are willing to spend on RG3 in terms of picks and how much we are willing to spend on Flynn in dollars and go after the one we want in order of who we think we will be the better Qb. If Cleveland outbids us or Washington out spends us we move on with plan C, not a lot of point worrying about it.
I am for the Dolphins doing whatever is necessary to trade up and get the Rams pick so they can select RG3. Of course with Ireland as the GM, it is more likely the Dolphins will trade down in the first round and pick another offensive lineman in the first round. In fact it would not surprise me in the least if Matt Moore is not the starting QB for the Dolphins next year and the Dolphins don't get Manning, Flynn, or RG3. The Dolphins will probably end up with one of the second tier QB's in this years draft and they will still be looking to solve their QB issues next year when the 2013 draft comes around. I just don't have any faith in Ireland, when it comes to his being able to resolve the QB problem on this team.
my first way to go would be a healthy Manning with Tannehill drafted in the 8th for a myriad of excellent reasons having said that I totally agree: RG3 & pay the price necessary to end this tragedy in 2012 I have little faith in Flynn, he has never been the ProvenBull, only a 7th round pick & an excellent NFL backup we already have our Flynn, only he has Moore experience (pun intended) & better mobility
He was the "Proven Bull" when he led LSU to a BCS Championship as a senior. That he was a 7th round pick is as irrelevant as Cassel being a 7th, Brady and Bulger being 6's, Gannon being a 4th and guys like Warner, Warren Moon and Jeff Garcia being undrafted.
I am sure that all of the QB needy teams have a chart similar to the draft value chart with the available quarterbacks listed both in the draft and in free agency. That chart would probably have Luck and RGIII listed 1, and 2 followed by Manning, Flynn, Tannehill etc, etc. If that is the case and those teams looking at RGIII at the top right after Luck would pretty much see his value similarly to the people here on this board see him. With that being said what are they willing to give up to get RGIII? Are we more needy or desperate to land a premium QB as say Cleveland, Washington, or any other team? If quarterback is a priority need and RGIII is within reach do you save this years picks to fill other holes or do you invest in that most important piece of the puzzle?
I like this idea and other than job security, wonder why its rarely done. Compile picks for next year for no matter how appealing this years draft may look...same was true about last years draft "looking great" and same will be true next year!
