If Manning were to be healthy he can bring his ability to run a hurry up offense and not run back and forth to the bench while Sparano and Co do gimmick plays and call time outs to discuss when to kick a field goal or just take a knee. This would be a Jets nightmare and the Pats wouldn't have the best Qb on the field.
This is nothing like dismissing Drew Brees. Drew was 26 years old, and he did not have a nerve problem in his throwing arm. This is about a 36 year old Peyton Manning who even if healthy, would still only be a short term stop gap. This is a 36 year old Peyton Manning who has had FOUR surgeries on his neck to this point, with none of them showing the results he has been wanting to get based on reports. He's now looking at a 5th surgery on his neck to clean up some of the chronic degeneration that is in his neck. By waiting him out and giving in to his demands, you are basically costing yourself a young, 26 year old quarterback who is entering the prime of his career and is tailor made for the offense Joe Philbin wants to run.
well i hope he would pull his mobile and call him then , because if colombo is out there at RT to protect peyton, something really went wrong...lol
Exactly. If 2 and 3 are your issues with signing him, and Peyton has already made it known he wants to bring Wayne with him. You've got a big problem already. That's the least of my worries, my biggest worry is point #3. We hired Philbin for his knowledge of the offensive system in GB. If you bring in Peyton, you bring him in for the system he knows and essentially can coach himself from Indy. You won't be asking Peyton to change his ways, you'd be asking your coach. Which, really goes against the reason you hired Philbin as coach in the first place. Id rather sign Flynn and take my chances with a healthy QB who our HC knows, and the QB knows the sytem we would run, over signing a QB and hoping he's healthy, and have the QB coach the team, and essentially the coach on his own system. You sign a guy like Peyton to let him do whatever he wants, not to be coached into a new system that your new coach wants to run. IMO, our teams flirtations with Peyton is only a smokescreen to draw attention away from the real targets... Flynn, or a trade up to get RG3. Which in that case... I'd still rather try Flynn. At least we dont give up a pile of draftpicks to do that.
The reason Billick makes this point is the reason he's no longer an NFL HC... Any HC with half a brain, given the opportunity to acquire a proven commodity like Manning would adjust his offense, with Manning, to fit his best attributes. Heck, for all we know, maybe the shorter crossing patterns that are staples of the WCO might suit Manning's physical skill set even better after his injury than the offense he ran for 13 yrs. Personally, I agree that Philbin may not want Manning. After all, we hire the guy for his offensive background, then bring in a player that doesn't exactly fit in it... That doesn't mean that Philbin won't embrace what Manning might bring to the team, just that it sends mixed messages from Ross on why he hired Philbin in the first place...It also might set him back a year or two, particularly if the acquisition of Manning doesn't pan out, if he doesn't return to the Manning we all knew in 2009, but that's a discussion for another time...
1) Obviously the Dolphins would want to make sure Manning is healthy enough to play next year before signing him. 2) Signing free agents is up to Ireland. If Ireland thinks Wayne and Saturday would be upgrades over what the team has now, I have no problem at all with him signing either one of these players or both if that is what he decides to do. 3) This demand is ridiculous. If the Dolphins sign Manning, it will be because that is the QB the owner of the team wants. Therefore, it is up to Philbin to adjust his offense to suit what Manning does best, not the other way around. I seriously doubt that Philbin is going to force Manning to play in a WCO, when he is not suited for this type of offense. I am also sure that Philbin was well aware of the fact Ross wanted to sign Manning if he could, before Philbin ever agreed to be the Dolphins HC. 4) I am not worried about Tannehill or any of the other QB's in this years draft, except Luck and RG3, being a replacement for Manning. Because Tannehill and the rest of the second tier QB's in this draft will never be anything but mediocre QB's in the NFL. I also don't see the Dolphins wasting a pick on Tannehill if they do sign Manning. I honestly don't think Manning will opt to sign with the Dolphins. Yet if he is healthy and he does sign with the Dolphins, there will be no reason for the Dolphins to draft a young QB this year, since only RG3 and Luck are the only QB's in this draft which are worth spending a high draft pick on. If the Dolphins are intent on drafting a young QB in this years draft, perhaps the Dolphins will sign Manning and they can then use a fourth or fifth round pick on Kellen Moore. I think Moore will be just as good as Tannehill and Weeden in the NFL and he won't cost the Dolphins a high draft pick.
I've no problem signing Peyton Manning as long as Miami drafts a QB. None of the QB's available to Miami via the draft will be ready to play this season, especially Tannehill or Osweiler. That being said I'd rather them sit behind Peyton Manning than Matt Moore.
Are you really that sold on Matt Flynn.....cuz....from listening to alot of football talk on the radio....alot of experts arent sold on him at all. And..why would Miami be talking trading up to the #2 spot....if they were gonna sign Flynn? I dont think Coach Philbin is sold on him being a franchise QB
I just don't want to win only for the next two years until Peyton retires, leaving us scrambling to find another QB with a bottom first-round pick. When are we going to pick this high again in the near future?
I know you didn't ask me, but I would say that I am far more sold on Flynn being somewhere between a Cassel and Shaub or Hasselbeck in our system than I am on Manning ever being healthy enough to be even as good as Cassel and Shaub or Hasselbeck again. I don't see Flynn as a great talent, but I do see him as a great fit. And I think that a great fit can be far more important in terms of production and team success. I would also say that talk of trading up to #2 is irrelevant. If I were the GM, I would be talking about both trading up and getting Manning even if Philbin had already told me that Flynn was his number 1 choice and I had an illegal handshake deal and contract agreed to and in place with Flynn's agent.
Ahh, I'll GLADLY take 2 strong years of winning and being at the top. We've endured quite enough over the past decade to not have a 2-yr honeymoon period. And really, it's all theory-craft anyhow. Never know whoever gets to sit and learn behind PM, that he might be able to keep the train a-rollin'!
being in Florida working out and training, i guess is an interesting foot note, but he has been "throwing better" on and off as well as "not progressing" every hour depending on who you hear from.
That would apply to signing Manning as well. If they are talking about selling the farm to move up to get RGIII, then forget about Manning. They are going to build around their prize QB that they just sold a few drafts for. If they deside to sign Manning then i seriously dont see them spending #8 on Tannehill. They are in win NOW mode and will again build around their prize QB they just bet their jobs on winning them a SB. If they sign Flynn i dont see them drafting a QB (high 1st 2nd 3rd) because they will be placing their future in the hands of their prize QB they believe in and will build around him. So I dont see a QB being drafted unless its to move up to get RGIII, and i still think that is rumor and speculation.
Bob Kravitz has been pretty spot on regarding the situation. I'd trust him more than just about anyone else.
A report by Dave Hyde who is pretty well regarded by most : http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/spo...aveHyde-blog+(Dave+Hyde+|+Sun+Sentinel+blogs) Again it doesn't mean Miami HAS to sign him or even SHOULD , but it does mean imo , that Miami needs to not dismiss that option without following through. The reports are changing and again independent sources are saying there is improvement and that is what is needed as per medical reports IF Peyton will be healthy enough to be a productive QB again. To close the option on signing Peyton without more due dilliegence would be an error imo , and I don't think Miami takes themselves out of the picture at this juncture and won't until more is known and contrary to posts saying there are no positive reports , there are. Again , not a reason to sign him , but a reason to still retain that option should it be available imo.
If you draft a quarterback in the first round, you are drafting for the future. That is not a draft pick that is made with the idea that you are going to win now. If you sign Peyton Manning, then you are all in for the next two years. You absolutely have to make moves for the now and ignore the future. That means taking up roster spots that young, developing players like Marlon Moore and Roberto Wallace, for example, are holding so you can bring in overpriced and overaged veterans in an attempt to win now. If you sign Peyton Manning, you delay the building of this offense around a young quarterback.
Should be sooner than March 13th shouldn't it? Manning's bonus is due the 8th so the Colts have to cut him before then. He's then free to sign wherever, whenever. At least that's what I've heard.
With the exception of the Patriots, each of the teams you mentioned got their QB in the first round... In other words, if we sign Manning, we better be drafting a QB with our first-round pick because we surely won't be picking this high again in the near future if Peyton joins the team. Forgive me if I don't trust our FO to find "hidden gem" QBs in later rounds.
ACORNS!!! (!) They could always trade up (ha!) in next years draft, or the year after. Or trade down in this years draft to grab Tannehill.
No it doesn't , has Flynn said I will sign by pick a date? Not that I have read. Also , the reports are that Peyton if healthy is looking to play up to 4 to 5 more years , so it isn't just 2 years. Again , the reoprts are coming out with positive progression , contrary to statements that there are none , and any favourable ones are by Peyton's entourage , which again is being dispelled. Miami may not want Flynn , we don't know if they do . Mayock stated he would prefer drafting Tannehill to signing Flynn , so it certainly isn't automatic that Miami feels Flynn is the answer. He may be , and may be the option Miami pursues , but if healthy does anyone think the QB that gives Miami the best chance to win the next several years is not Peyton Manning? No need to close the door , no decision is needed at this moment , and when more and more positive reports are surfacing , to me it means Miami will and should make every effort to see if they can sign a healthy , productive Peyton Manning ,because imo , if he is near his previous level , that by far gives Miami the best chance to win for several years. If Miami feels Flynn is a better option then nothing is stopping them from pursuing that direction , they have enough information imo to make a prudent decision to wait or not.
"Due diligence" will most likely involve working out Manning in March, finding out he can't throw like an NFL QB yet, but hearing there's hope that he will continue to progress. The current reports are apparently hoping that he'll be ready in May. Then you have to decide if you want Flynn or if you want to hope that come May, Manning will have actually continued to progress. You can't "know". Even the doctors can't even guess. In the end, short of a miracle March recovery, signing Manning will amount to nothing more than crossing your fingers while passing on other options.
The average number of starts for quarterbacks from age 36 on who have started at least 20 games after their 36th birthday is 37, which is a little more than 2 seasons worth of starts. To expect Peyton Manning to play for 4-5 more years with a degenerative condition in his neck is not smart.
Given all the uncertainties as we understand them concerning Manning's health and the uncertainties they create for roster development as well as: a) the diminution of Manning's effectiveness due to hamstringing him in a WC offense; or alternatively, b) requiring Sherman / Philbin to just install whatever Manning is comfortable with, I don't see where Manning is a good fit for this team, at this moment.
I don't see any issues with these except with the whole "he better follow the system" stuff. He's a smart enough guy to realize he'll be tested physically by any team gambling on him. He's also a smart enough guy to realize he's short term. Why would this be an issue? He knows his age. The only thing I don't agree with is the notion that if Manning is signed that he's going to have to "give in" to running "Philbin's offense". You work within a system to adapt to the players you have. If you get a special player like Manning you'd be an idiot to "force" him to do things differently than he's been successful doing. You can set up the basics of your offensive philosophy around him for when he moves on but to pigeon hole a talent like Manning just to set up your system would be foolish. Shula changed his "philosophy" when he got Marino. Bellichek has changed his "philosophy" many times with the changes in personnel the Patriots have gone through. To force one way of doing things on a team and ignoring the personnel's talents would be ignorant and I see it way too much in upper level sports by ego driven coaches. Of course none of this matters if he's not completely healthy.... which is a good possibility.
Agreed. If they sign Peyton Manning it should not at all interfere with them seriously considering a QB for the future as well. A smart team plans for the immediate and for the future. The fact that we did not follow this mantra is the exact reason as to why we have not found a QB all these years.
Philbin was not brought in for his offense. He was brought in for his ability to BUILD AN OFFENSE based around the talent of his team. He was brought in because he has a strong football mind and ability to put his players in a position to win. Also I wouldn't draft Tannenhill. Before Barkley dropped out of the draft there is no way Tannenhill is even in the first round, maybe not even the 4th or 5th best QB on the board depending how you feel about Weeden, who age aside is a much better prospect IMO. I tried to buy the hype because I wanted a QB so badly, but after watching some film and really thinking about it, I wouldnt touch the guy.
I truly hope this is the type of coach Philbin is. If he is then we've finally found a guy that "gets it". As I mentioned in my previous post, I'm tired of seeing these coaches that try and force what they think is best on their teams without taking real consideration of the players they have on the roster and what may be best for that squad at the time. Also coaches that refuse to adjust to what the competition is doing to them on gameday. Again egomaniacally harping on their players to simply perform the original game plan better rather than adjusting. We've seen too many of those types here.
If the injury were an ACL or something more common, I'd agree with you that the reports are continuing to come up positive indicates that he's really progressing....however, this is different injury with a different type of recovery. Some of the recovery is not up to Peyton or the Dr.s...it's up to his body and when and to what extent those nerves regenerate... Where are these independent sources coming from ?? Manning's camp ?? The Dolts ?? I can't believe that a guy that had a noodle arm (if you choose to believe that) 3 weeks ago is suddenly back to being and NFL QB ?? There is just not enough out there and the sources are 'dubious' at best to believe what we're hearing... One other thing that hurts us even if we go after Manning and this is one thing that really hasn't changed as these 'sources' have been reporting various progress and digression from Manning and that is the date of May. That seems to consistently be the target date for Manning's recovery to be to a point that he can function. Well....do we wait for that time and chance not being able to get Flynn or a drafted QB ???
Well, there is some history that says that using 'my system' works...I'm sure that Holmgren and Walsh and Parcells and and JJ and BB pushed their system on their teams and it worked pretty good for them... I think there are varying degrees of what you say that is true. Manning may very well be an exception to that rule if I'm Joe Philbin, where you adjust what you want to do to his liking. But JP being a new HC is going to want to imprint his stamp on this team. Manning will slow that process down, beyond the shadow of a doubt. There is a time and place for a coach to stand up to the player/coach and enforce his system on said player/coach...there is a time to adjust what you do to the personnel you have...the good coaches do that... You are right about one thing...From Wanny until now, we've had coaches who have been less than willing to adjust what they do in some particular instances...and it's getting old...
Or, the "noodle arm" report could've been total bull****. Manning's Camp were not the ones who said he'd been throwing great lately.
Not sure how the best post in this thread just got skimmed over so I decided to reply to it so it could be read again. I dont know that we would be able to trade down and still get Tannehill, but everything else I think is right on the money.
Only thing I know is that Philbin himself said it would be a mistake to plop down the GB offensive playbook here because it wouldn't be the same. It was built for his players. Our offense will be built for our players if we can take him at his word. Also if you have a system you feel you HAVE to run, great, however you are going to have a much tougher time in the NFL today. All of those "My System" guys minus Bill B. probably wouldn't be very successful in the NFL today. Which is why I NEVER wanted Parcells. Poster child for the theory of my way or the highway not working anymore. Too much talent all around to not scheme to use it to it's max potential. Im sorry but there is no more "I need my ILB to be 6'4 260 pounds, my corner should be about 5'11 200 pounds, I need two speed WR and one large possession guy" That style of thinking simply doesn't work, and I would not call BB a system guy. Yes he has a system but it always adapts and changes year to year. Well maybe BB style of "My system" is called Tom Brady. I certainly wasn't impressed with BB before Brady or the year Brady was hurt.
He wants to play longer , nothing indicates IF this heals that he can't play more than 2 years . Brett Favre was one play in overtime away from being in the Super Bowl and if it wasn't for his gunslinger mentality he may very well have beaten the eventual Super Bowl champs. Was it a mistake by Minnesota to sign a beaten down old QB that didn't nearly work as hard as Peyton Manning? Too much to win to close the door at this point imo , and as I see it Miami isn't doing that.
Is Peyton Manning showing improvement throwing the football? Well, six days before the Colts' March 8 deadline on awarding him a $28 million bonus or not -- and most everyone's in the "not" side -- there's word from a solid, independent source he is. "Hearing from multiple sources that Peyton is in Florida and throwing much much better,'' Indianapolis Star columnist Bob Kravitz tweeted. A while back, Kravitz said Manning had a "noodle arm . So we are to believe him when he says Peyton has a "noodle arm" but not believe him when states otherwise from multiple sources?
