For discussions' sake, assume we sign Peyton Manning to a 2 yr, 25 million dollar deal. What moves would that precipate in the Draft and Free Agency? How about FA: -Reggie Wayne becomes a legitimate target -Jeff Saturday COULD be as well, the problem is the AFCE has monster sized NT/DT's, Saturday is a smallish player. -Te Jacob Tamme could also be on the menu The Draft becomes a crap shoot, reason being we need offensive linemen, Manning's health makes fixing that unit a priority, it could look like: -Trade back and take David Decastro -Rd #2 passrusher -Rd 3, Tackle guard prospect who is athletic I submit signing Manning pretty much hijacks our offseason so to speak, the offensive line was poor in 2012, yet the defense needs pieces, and we need more playmakers on offense, this is one of the reasons why I'd be fine with signing him but think it would also mean the team will center around his needs and I'm not sure we are "there" yet.
I think part of that question is that even under an incentive laden deal, the incentives could count against your cap. Now it's been a long time since I've read an NFL contract so things may have changed, but it used to be that there was a determination made by the league as to whether the incentives were deemed likely or unlikely to be earned. That was usually based on previous performance for a vet. For a rookie, it was pretty standard boiler plate. I don't know what you do when a vet player didn't play the previous year. A contract like the one above that was deemed likely to be earned would probably end or FA other than near minimum guys (depending on the breakdown).
Saturday's considering retirement and cant play anywhere but C...where we have a young all pro named Pouncey. Hes not a consideration imo because like you said the AFCE has big NT's and Pouncey for the most part did just fine against them. Wayne is a consideration but hes 33 going on 34. I wouldnt complain if the price were right. You could go after him and John Abraham and gear up for a run with vets or you could go younger and scrap those two and spend the money on Mario Williams. I dont think Peyton sees 2/25M Not even close. IMO youre looking at something like 2 years and maybe 5-10M in guarantees and a lot of incentives that could bring it to a 20-30M range based on health and productivity. Hes not going to play for free but no one is giving him that kind of cash especially not when we are likely to be bidding with only 2-4 other teams at most. If you get Peyton you sign one of the good FA DE's. Then you look at a CB...Carlos Rogers and Tracy porter could be fits. That way you go in to the draft looking at LB's like Kuechly or BPA
after securing Peyton Manning we go after Ryan Tannehill in the first round, then Peter Konz (C) in the second this would resolve definitively the Franchise QB dilemma & let Pouncey side up with Long @ Pulling-Guard, allowing Incognito, Jerry, Murtha, Gardner & Carrey to compete for the start on the right side
It is still that way as far as I know. If Miami signs Manning, what is likely to happen is this. They build the team to give Manning one last run for a championship. We end up signing some older veteran players who "have something to prove" and try to fit this team around Peyton. He proves early on that his arm strength hasn't returned, and Miami ultimately ends the season with Manning on IR after another couple of surgeries as a last ditch effort to "fix" his problem and Matt Moore as the starter. Miami finshes around 8-8, not good but also not bad enough to be in a position to get Matt Barkley in 2013. So, after a year of Peyton and continued problems with his arm, Miami is in the same position they are in this season. Only this time, Matt Moore is a free agent that doesn't resign with the Dolphins. So, we are stuck with a broken down, damaged Peyton Manning and limited ability to bring in his replacement.
The thinking behind the 2 yr deal is this is what Favre got when he left GB (IIRC) and Manning will prefer it, the structure, front loaded or back loaded makes it a bit moot to worry about the number right away. What interests is how his acquisition hijacks the offseason, you have to put pieces around him, this is the reason why Wayne could be on the menu as Manning deals a lot in timing and intuitive knowledge with his receivers, Wayne fits that bill and should not be overly expensive, a low budget name would be Blair White if he does not last in Indy, ditto Tamme, who also would be a low buck signing. Manning was famous for working with his receivers for hours and days during the offseason just to get that relationship going with them, Saturday could very well be someone Manning strongly suggests they bring in.
Can't take Tannehill at #8, once you sign manning you have to put pieces around him, it is an "all in" move, not a bridge to Qb of the future. Whomever we take at #8 has to contribute to the "all in" approach, meaning a OL or passrushing DE imo, both positions have a recent track record of playing at a high level quickly. What good would a developmental Qb do in that situation, they do not help you win ballgames in 2012.
Padre 1) You need a premier offensive line around either QB. everything starts in the trenches. Peter Kontz @ Center would change the lineup in a meaningful & dynamic way, allowing Pouncey to move to P/G along side Long & solid, first class competition for the right side of the line: Incognito, Gardner, Jerry, Murtha & Carey. 2) think of the game plan a creative OC could draw up with two excellent QB's on the field legitimately @ the same time. as we groomed Tannehill as the future Franchise QB, he could be implemented as a WR too. Tannehill has the talent & flexibility to contribute from day one in a meaningful way.
Keep in mind Bro, new coach, new pet projects, guys we are used to discussing won't be here in September and new guys will replace them. Find a shovel, and bury that notion , when you add Manning, the entire offense runs through him, no sub packages, Manning+football, and the #8 overall won't go to a part time Qb.
1) you make it sound like a bad thing... no sub packages? can't swap out a WR & run a reverse down-field option using Tannehill? I can think of nothing but possibilities along these lines. 2) these are not "new coaches" they are all veteran coaches with an excellent roster to work with from the get-go. they have to do their job & they will do their job. my expectations is that we are post-seasonal, even super bowl potential in 2012, especially, if Manning is on board.
Oh sure, I can see lots of stuff like that, however that is also pre Manning, once you add him that sort of thing will not be pursued, they will hand Manning the ball with a "go win the game". And they are new coaches 23rd, to this roster, whatever Sparano and Gugfiremenowpleaseamo were trying to do is not what they will try to do, meaning new players will be added.
Can't isn't the correct word imo. If you say shouldn't because that is your view , that is one direction , not the only one. While you or others may not agree , and that is ok , it doesn't mean it is the right way. If , and it is an if , Miami has a high enough grade on Tannehill for instance and he is there at 8 , they absolutely should consider that option. Lots of players don't fully contribute the first year for a variety of reasons , ala Odrick . I am not saying Miami will or should take a QB at 8 , but the way this is unfolding if Peyton is healthy and Miami believes in him , they may never have another opportunity to secure the QB position this strongly . That in of itself is reason to not dismiss that option imo. They may view Tannehill as a GREAT, not good developmental prospect and again , if they do they may realize it is the best , most prudent use of their asset for the franchise long term . Again , not saying it has to be , but if I was Ireland and or Ross I absolutely would do the double move if I was sold on Tannehill . There are enough options to build around Peyton without the first round pick . Saturday may or may not be a fit but he isn't hanging out and not preparing , he stated he was working out , preparing for this season but didn't know if that would be with Indy or another team , or if he would get the right opportunity.
Padre I think the new/old & experienced coaches will understand that we have a near complete & quality team. I think they will be flexible in their thinking & understand they will be under tremendous pressure to win from the very start. they will have to produce with basically the team that they inherit. there are very few legitimate needs to be filled. after the QB is fixed, Center, TE, maybe a defensive linesman. "the die is cast"
I don't want Manning - period! End of Report!! For the first time in a decade we have the possibility of continuing the formulation a consistently competitive team which will be together for more than the one more Super Bowl run for a nearing retirement future Hall of Famer, who, by the way, we do not know can even throw the football anywhere near the way needed to guide a team to the playoffs. I don't like the 'Rent-a-QB" attitude because it usually doesn't work out except "maybe" for one season. That is not enough for me. I want a team - a unified, cohesive, focused unit built for the long run - not a scraping together of the best we can pull into one under the CAP season or maybe two. That sure didn't work for Shula near the end of Marino's run. Not again, thank you.
I don't want Manning either, but the thread is about the hypothetical signing. My thoughts: - if we have to sign Manning, getting Reggie Wayne to come with him would be huge. A Marshall/Wayne combination would be fantastic, IMO. - We still use our 1st round pick on a pass-rusher, the #2 way to improve the team after QB - we prioritize one more free agent signing - a RT or RG. If Jake is healthy, we team him up with Pouncey, Murtha, FA and w/ or w/o Incog, that's still a good enough line.
That I'm not sure about RR, as unlike the Colts, we have significant resources invested (and more to come, hypothetically speaking), keep him upright and not being beaten up game after game, he could last longer than we really have room to speculate.
Hmm, I'd think it would be more important to add receivers who have existing rapport with Manning, add Saturday and we have the middle of the Colts OL and OL brains, and we have pieces that Manning can use Gm #1, which would be about all we could ask for in one offseason imo. It would also allow Pouncey to LG, Richie I to RG and Jerry/Murtha/Garner/Draft Pick to compete at RT.
lets think about this, If Manning is signed, there probably isn't an offensive skillset player worthy of the #8 pick with blackmon gone, there also isn't a right tackle worthy of the #8 pick imo..so its Decastro, or to get the most value out of this draft, a trade down is probably in order..Then I would go either take Luke Kuechly or Kendall Wright..
I'd suspect not Deej, the Giants lesson should ring loud and clear around the NFL, if you want to win, you rush the Qb effectively, everything works off of pressure, so Wake/Starks/Odrick/Draftee, this way both Offense and Defense have been appropriately addressed. INOW, we go passrusher at #8.
we're on the same page with that one. An elite pass-rusher w/Wake nets Manning and Co a shorter field to score with. and to your previous point, that's exactly what I mentioned when I said pairing Marshall with Wayne.
The only way that could work is if the second pick in the trade down also provided 2012 impact, which would make little sense as we are in positon to take an Elite talent at #8, so take them.
If Coples and Claiborne are gone, then your looking at Upshaw, Cox or Brockers at 8 defensively speaking, I'am not sure 1 of those guys is more valuable then a combination of something like Kuechly and Fleener..I think there is value later in the first if you can get an extra pick in trading down...Its getting interesting..
That's my philosophy. If we grab Manning, I want to take an offensive lineman in the first and draft a developmental QB (Osweiler, Foles, etc...) later who can learn behind one of the greatest.
Think "contributes right away" Deej, and we have no idea what they think of the passrushing prospects in this draft, for all we know they love Mel Ingram as a sort of Matthias Kiwi for us.
If Miami were to sign Manning, or Matt Flynn for that matter, I think you're looking at a list of guys like Courtney Upshaw, Fletcher Cox, Dontari Poe, Luke Kuechly, David DeCastro at the 8th spot. I'd consider Ingram, Coples, and maybe Brockers as well, but I definitely think you need a guy to get after the QB or plug the hole that Paul Soliai's potential departure will leave. To me, that's boiling down to Upshaw, Cox, or Poe.
Kuechly will not go that high, not a chance imo. Now Flynn, would change things from a strategic pov, you would not be in all in mode, your hands are not tied with assembling pieces around Manning, he offers a ton of options, but not the wins imo.
If Rolando McClain and Jerod Mayo both went in the top 10, Luke Kuechly certainly could. There might not be a team that's currently in the top 10 that would take him, but I think he might be the first true MLB off the board, and I think he's almost a lock for a top 15 pick. I'd still prefer Upshaw, Cox, and Poe in that order if Miami's already signed Manning or Flynn.
who are your elite players in this draft?..I'am saying the value might be better if you got Manning to trade down..Ingram at 8 doesn't do much for the premise of this thread imo??
Regardless of the positional value metric: -Andrew Luck -David Decastro Those 2 I'm confident will be top echelon at their positions 3 yrs from now. Good prospects: Muddle of passrushers, Coples, Upshaw etc just do not do much for me. Guy I really like is Malcolm Floyd, I just think the guy will be Anquan Boldin Jr.
For me, for a guy to be an elite prospect, he has to have been elite most of his time in college, not a one yr guy, not a guy from a small conference, just a guy who always played at a high level, RG3 is a fine prospect as you will find, but cannot be called "elite".
I would not like it, to me, even the best LG in the NFL is not worth that high of a pick, he can be Brian Waters jr, still not worth that pick, as a prospect he's great as a move...not so much. Have to hope Ireland sees a Demarcus Ware jr in this draft.
Lets play this out Pod..under the premise we sign Manning.. Its gonna be either a dlineman or Upshaw or Coples? who you gonna take at 8? or, are you sure you you don't want to trade down and maybe double up in the first?
