early speculation on offense

Tannehill 23rd, unless you were just making a funny, which in that case, pretty funny..

Wright will be there if that's who you want, I Think he's gonna be special, so if that unit is their target I would try and drop down a bit then take him..

Considering you love the online i'am surprised you don't have Decastro on your wish list , guy is fast athletic mean tank of a man.

Fleener is good, Dwayne Allen IMO is better...

Draft strategy for me..

1) waiting to see if IRsay is speaking the truth, that nerve does regernerate, and wants to resign Manning, if so that means Luck will interpret that as three years on the bench and he will nonos likey, means I swoop in with a blockbuster trade..

2) Hopefully we made a friend in Fisher and he will take our deal over the others if there the same, I make a deal for RG..

3) if our coach sells me on Flynn, and he thinks he's the guy, sign Flynn..That inside intel is too important to override their authority..

4) See what kind of offers are out there, look at the teams that will be in front of you after you drop, make sure they don't need a QB, then make the drop and select Tannehill..

5) Same thing for Weeden.

Come out of the draft with two scenarios, 1st, if you go with Flynn, come away with Decastro and Dwayne Allen...two best players at their positions.

2nd, if you don't sign Flynn, walk away with Tannehill and Dwayne Allen...gonna have to use that extra 2nd to move back up, or keep the extra 2nd, and go with Tannehill..Fleener and Zeitler..

 

I'm with you on Flynn. I have'n seen anything on him, or his stats, that have impressed me. I'm really not big on any QB in the draft except Luck. RG3 is a big maybe.

 

Not sure how a wide receiver can be considered "not a concern"
when the #2 wide receiver does NOTHING TO HELP MARSHALL
or any one else on this team

When you average 2 catches a game and 1 td this past season
your lucky to be on a team never mind the #2 wide receiver.

 

...731 yards and 9 TD passes in 2 starts...the BEST ever for a QB in his first two starts in NFL history. Single game GB records of 480 yards and 6 TD passes. A team that had Starr, Favre and Rodgers as QBs.

Yeah, not impressive at all.

 

definitely. we need a really good #2 WR, keep either Hartline or Bess as #3 (i prefer Hartline) and trade the other.
for the OP, I have zero desire to retain Mastrud. Guy has shown me nothing. Fasano + Clay + FA. if you keep 4 TEs, then Mastrud would be okay.
Don't ignore a RB upgrade just because we signed Messum. if a good FA becomes available, sign him and let him complete with our stable. Even if you had to cut D Thomas (to the uproar of this board) an upgrade is an upgrade

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/mattflynn/367/careerstats

One great game. A couple of good games and a couple of REALLY BAD games. No not impressive at all.

 

My bad. I was looking at his stats wrong. Looks like he got shoved in at the end of some games or even pre-season games. Still I'm not sold on 1 game.

 

23rd...I miss your colors...

Seriously....

QB: Manning is damaged goods. Even if he can come back, he won't be ready until later in the offseason at best...most estimates have him back in July or later...remember May is a year from the main surgery...I don't see them counting on him, given that IF he's healthy, it still won't be until later in the offseason, shortening the time Philbin has to install his offense... Ross is enamored with this option though.

Flynn, by all accounts is the best option for Philbin and probably for us, however, the general consensus is that he's not a 'franchise' guy, however, if Philbin is willing to lay his job on the line for him, then I'd think that would be a good choice. He can probably be effective as a system QB, but he's not Rodgers, Brady or Brees... he would be a good option as he fits what Philbin and Sherman want to do and we have insider info on him. Acquiring him would be the easiest route for Philbin. I would assume a contract could be worked out that we could get out of it in a year or two if necessary... Philbin could convince Ross to buy into Flynn...

Orton or Campbell, don't count them out. At this point they represent better options than MMoore, Flynn or any of the rookies after Luck and RG3. The caveat is that they are not franchise guys and haves reached their potential...they are WYSIWYG's... I don't like these options. More importantly, these guys don't fit Ross' vision for this team.

Luck or RG3 - forget about them. No deal is going to be made to acquire them. What a disservice to Philbin to eat up draft choices for one of these guys... Don't get me wrong, I'd take either one in a heartbeat...but don't see it happening, the cost in assets is too much and we have too many other holes not filled, particularly with new offensive and defensive schemes being installed.

Tannehill - A developmental guy, but not too long. Ran a pro offense in college. May or may not be better than what Flynn, Orton and Campbell are right now. Requires that we hang our hats on MMoore for a year....not the worst thing to happen. Taking him at 8/9 might be a bit high, but he is a QB. We have insider info on him also... Will Ross be happy with this option ?? He seems more of an 'instant gratification' guy in this case and may not want to wait to see how the kid does...

Weeden/Foles/Osweiller - second tier draft choices...might look like desperation....would likely be desperation. I like Weeden the best, but he's also a developmental guy as he ran a college offense.

MMoore - Not the worst thing to happen to us. Many think he's got as much upside as Flynn. Hasn't been as successful in his short time on the field as Flynn has in his even shorter time. Hasn't had the talent around him like Flynn has either... I don't see MMoore getting significantly better than he is right now, but could be wrong. He'd have to learn a new offense, but since he's under contract anyway, it doesn't matter... Not Ross' idea of a franchise guy though....

I don't know the answers...each option has risks involved. However, any option other than Luck/RG3 won't likely cost us other assets besides salary cap space... Manning, Flynn, Orton, Campbell cost more cash. The other draftees are less costly in draft picks...

As to the rest of the team...we really have to wait to see what options are used for QB, and what FAs are picked up... Salary cap IS and issue for us, although there is some room. What holes will be created because of the new schemes on O and D ?? Can we fill all of them in FA ?? Will we finally get a FS that is worth a s___ ? Can we find a complementary edge rusher for Wake ?? Can Philbin and Sherman (both ex-OL coaches) do something that our former HC with an OL background couldn't do for 4 yrs ??

 

QB: Tannehill if he's there @ 8/9, Weeden if not, Flynn if Philbin things he's the 2nd coming of Christ, and keep developing Matt Moore, he could turn into a top tier QB with the right coaching.
We still DO need 1 speedster WR with size and good hands to compliment Marshall. Hartline is NOT the answer. Though Gates could be possibly.

Start Jerry or Garner at LG & RT, move Richie Incognito to RG, keep this OL together long enough for them to gel. LYdon Murtha could possibly take the RT spot, and if he does, I'd relegate Incognito to 2nd string backup.

 

I just think Tannehill in the top 10 is way too high. If we could get weeden in the 2nd I'd pull the trigger. But I also wouldn't mind picking up coby fleener in that round either. A legit #2 receiver would free up Marshall a ton. I'm not as down on Daniel Thomas as some are here, still have hope for him. In all honesty I wouldn't mind loading up this year through the draft and free agency, and selling the farm for Barkley next year.

 

Lets see in 08 and 09 combined he attempted 17 passes with 9 complete (52.9%) for 64 yards and 1 INT as the 3rd string QB. While in 10, as the backup QB, he was 40 of 66 (60.6%) with 3TD's and 2 INTs and in 2011 he was 33 of 49 (67.3 %) with 6 TDs and 2 INTs. That shows alot of growth over that 4 year span when he was given his chance. The same is true of his college career imo. Pretty good if you ask me.

 

I'm more worried that Tannehill will last to our pick than I am that he isn't worth our pick. I think that the people that keep saying he isn't worth are relying poor info.

 

With Joe Philbin as our head coach...with Mike Sherman as our OC...and seeing how the Green Bay organization has been successful in the development of quarterbacks, my stance on the quarterback remains unchanged...whoever Joe Philbin wants as quarterback, that's who we should go for...be it Peyton Manning or Matt Flynn through free agency, whoever they draft, if they even do draft a quarterback or staying with Matt Moore.

Their resume in quarterback development is a solid one, so whoever they go with, they have my 100% support...as should everyone else here.

 

I agree, depending on how the Browns or Redskins go in the draft he might very well be gone by 8/9. If the Browns or Skins don't take a Qb I think he'll be there but if both want Qbs in the draft, and you'd have to think they do, he could be gone. People seem to forget that with the rookie salary cap, Qbs aren't a huge risk. Look at the run they had last year, I think our front office had someone like Locker or Ponder in mind and were left wondering what happened when every Qb was gone by our pick.

 

Could not agree more. I don't care who the QB is. This offense will continue to bog down until Hartline is replaced. He is NOT a #2 WR.

 

I'm in the corner that isn't sure he's worth the pick, but wouldn't be opposed to them taking him at #8/9. I don't want them to trade up for Tannehill, but I am a bit concerned that even tho he may not be worthy of going so high, someone might jump up and take him from us...at that point, FA is over (for all intents and purposes) and we're sitting here hoping MMoore can duplicate his last year's results in a new offense ?? Face it, everyone and his brother will know that he'll be our target if we don't have Flynn or Manning by that time.... Anyone who likes the kid could jump up for him (Jax, Seattle, NE, Tenn). And I'm in the corner that's not sold on Flynn, but naturally would defer to Philbin if we pick him up. I'm certainly not sold on Manning due to his health. I just don't think he'll be ready as soon as he is released from Indy. I see him as this year's Chad Pennington and some team is going to have him fall into their laps...However, I don't think that team will be us...

The real question is "Just how enamored is Ross with getting the sexy FA pick and how patient will he be on draft day if we don't have that sexy acquisition ??"

 

True that...what we have here is Marshall, Bess and Hartline who are very, very similar in what they bring to the table as WR's. None are speedsters, Marshall is the best of the three, but Bess and Hartline bring some things to the table as slot guys... Is Gates that guy ?? We just don't know yet...

 

I don't see any of the bolded teams as a concern.

 

how could moore turn into something special if we would sign manning or draft andrew luck somehow, he would not play a down

 

Jax has some motive. Gabbert played lousy last season and they have a new regime in place now with no allegiance to him. They also have a new owner with more money than Weaver had...

NE, you could be very right on, but how happy are they with Mallet. This, to me, is just the thing that NE would do...they have the ammo to move up, they've done some wacky things in the draft and it would hurt us...maybe I'm wrong...but any team that has the ammo to move around in the draft, we need to be aware of...

 

23d, i just don't see Manning or Luck falling to us this year ... i think it'll be either Flynn or Moore at the helm.

I too like Fleener at TE in rd2 ...

i don't think there's too much worry about Wright still being on the board at our pick -- even if we move down, but it will all depend on Jeffrey.

Not worried about RB ...

believe rd 1 will be DE, OLB, T and a slight chance at WR ... add S (Barron) if we trade way down in rd 1.

 

The attempt to negotiate for Andrew Luck would go something like this...

Ireland/Ross call Irsay.

Ireland/Ross: We are calling to negotiate a trade to get the #1 pick in the upcoming draft.

Irsay: F*$& YOU!!!

Click.

 

I crack up at these people that down talk Flynn because he only has 2 games a his body of work, then turn around and want for Tannehill or RG3, that have no games in the NFL, no experience in the NFL, and no experience in the WCO.

 

Texas A&M played a WC type offense under Sherman.

Edit: Flynn is probably going to be the guy though and I'm OK with that.

 

It really is ludicrous. Leading your team to the National Championship, having 4 years of being schooled in the offense at the professional level, and having the best ever 2 game start in NFL history is apparently not enough.

Yet, only playing QB for a year and half in college is. And 15 interceptions in college equates to about 30 in the NFL.

 

Obviously anything is possible, but I would say that our odds of trading for Luck are higher than any of those teams taking a QB before us. And getting Luck is a long shot, not an impossibility, but a long shot.

 

I don't see people talking Flynn down..
I believe it's a bigger decision than your making it out to be, it's not a Flynn vrs Tannehill debate, it's whether or not you feel Flynn has the skillset to take you all the way and the commitment it will take to sign this player, until Philbin says he's the man, nothing wrong with discussing other players that have more talent, and weighing other options.

 

Was just going to point out that PERHAPS Messam and Thigpen are much needed X Factors on offense, low cost high impact acquisitions, ditto Hartline, whom I'm not wild about but honestly could easily be a 1k yd/7-8 td guy.

Also think dropping Colombo and moving Incognito to RG (with a pay cut, RG's don't make as much as LG's) and finding a true LG will help the offense out tremendously imo.

Anyone think maybe Jerry or Garner could play LG?

 

I would say that with two first round picks the Cleveland Browns would have the best chance of trading up to get Luck, if the Colts view RGIII as a possible franchise QB. The Colts could still get one of the two best quarterbacks in RGIII and would still have another pick in the first round and possibly other extra picks as well. With the Redskins and a few other teams probably looking to draft a quarterback it may cut down our options quite a bit in this draft.
I'm not promoting Matt Flynn but if you compare his play up to this point with Rogers play in his first three years, he looks pretty good. Flynn was drafted in the 7th round but he beat out Brian Brohm who was drafted in the second round to be the second string QB in GB.

 

Just curious rafael. I’ve seen you post many times that a team should take a QB at any cost if they are sold that he is a franchise guy.

Other than Manning being 100% on draft day, what scenario would lead you to believe the Dolphins have any shot whatsoever at landing Luck?

 

I can't speak for Rafs, but the hope Taz is that Irsay is a bit aloof, and his public courting may piss off Luck enough to not want to go there, or the other scenario that Irsay is telling the truth and is trying to sgn Manning on the cheap while drafting Luck, however if Irsay does sign Manning that means the nerve has regernertaed enough, and that would be interpreted by Lucks camp as more than a one year committment to the hometown boy, so, if your the #1 pick your not gonna want to wait til Manning plays out his final 3 years on his original team, that's wasting precious time on one of the best Qb prospects ever...At least that's my glimmer of hope still.

 

If that's the case why would he be drafted in the 7th round? Yeah I know players get overlooked blah blah blah but you make it seem like he's for sure on the brink of becoming elite the way you rave about him. He has played 2 games.

 

In one of those games he had three turnovers, which consisted of a pick 6, and a game ending, in enemy territory, with plenty of time on the clock, sack fumble...

 

Are you aware that he was drafted in the 7th round "4 years ago" and has been schooled in Philbin's offense for the past 4 years while learning from one of the greatest QBs of all-time in Rodgers? Do you seriously think if he was in the draft this year he would be drafted in the 7th round? Do you know that Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round? Or Joe Montana was drafted in the 3rd round?

Do you think 480 yards and 6 TD passes in a game happens by accident for QBs with no talent? Did you watch either the Patriots or the Lions game? It goes beyond just the numbers and the measurables. It is the way he carries himself on the field. It is almost a certainty there is not a rookie coming out this year, including Luck and RG3, that is as ready to play as Flynn is.

He makes so much ****ing sense to be in a Dolphin's uniform other options seem silly at this point.

 

I think even if Peyton resigns, the Colts will still want to draft Luck. Peyton doesn't have many years left, and Luck can be the long term replacement. Sitting behind elite QBs don't hurt either. Aaron Rodgers for instance. Some of the best QBs in the league came off the bench(Brees, Brady, Rodgers...).

I say we push for a more realistic option. Matt Flynn?

 

Yeah if he was in the draft this year and his college performance was the same, I think he would. Obviously a QB with 4 years in the NFL should have a better shot over unproven rookies, but imo Flynn is unproven as well. Yeah I know there's hidden talent late in the draft but you can't base it all over anecdotes of previous players.

Yeah I'm sure Matt Moore feels like he's ready to play too, but that doesn't mean that a rookie coming out this year isn't going to be better than him in the future. I would hope a QB who has been in the NFL for over 4 years thinks he is ready to be a starter. But if coach brings him in he knows a lot more about it then any of us do so..

 

B/c I realize that not everybody agrees with me. Just like there are many here who would not give up whatever it takes to get a QB, there are NFL people who agree with them. There's also the factor of falling in love with another QB. There were reports out of Indy that they liked RG3 as much as Luck. Now that was when Polian was there, but was it just his opinion or the opinion of the others on the scout staff? I could easily see Irsay thinking that RG3 is just as good and that he can show the world how smart he is by re-signing Manning trading down for a bunch of picks and still getting a guy as good as Luck with more upside potential.

 

That's very interesting, I hadn't heard the RGIII thing.