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A good reason to stay away from Manning

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by jsizzle, Feb 9, 2012.

  1. jsizzle

    jsizzle Banned

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    Did we bring Philbin and Sherman here to run Peyton Manning's offense or GB's offense? It makes no sense to have to put in a system Manning is comfortable with for 2 years. Philbin was brought here because of HIS system. We need to run with it.
     
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  2. RickyNeverInhaled

    RickyNeverInhaled Well-Known Member

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    Philbin doesn't care either way. I see this as a move that Ross wants to make. If it works, Peyton makes philbin look good, if it doesn't, philbin will get a chance to do things his way
     
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  3. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Peyton Manning is a system.

    He can do anything he needs to.
     
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  4. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I know people will discount this by saying that a healthy Manning is so good that you let him play in whatever system he wants. Personally, I want Philbin to install his system and start developing QBs. I want to have players develop and step in when we have injuries. I'm not looking for what we might do in the next year or two. I think the players (and even coaches) come and go, but if you have a good system, it can set you up for the next decade or two.
     
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  5. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Did people honestly forget that Manning is arguably the smartest QB of all time?
     
  6. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    Uh what? This is Peyton Manning, not Chad Henne we're talking about. There is no system Manning won't succeed in. Well, unless you decide to run a single-wing...
     
  7. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Dan Henning approves of this post.
     
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  8. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And he can do that, while winning, and perhaps winning big with Peyton Manning.

    There is no law that says getting Manning means you don't draft a QB at some point and develop him. I might even take an Osweiler in the 2nd round.
     
  9. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't draft a QB "at some point". At best, Manning is such a short term solution, that getting that QB is still a priority. Most likely, Manning won't play this year. I would be pissed if we signed Manning and then passed on that first round QB.
     
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  10. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Philbin was hired to be the head coach of this team. As the head coach, it is his responsibility to create a system which best suits the players on the team. It is not up to him to force these players to adapt to his system.

    Don Shula was a great coach because he was always able to run a system which suited his players. When he had great running backs and a great offensive line in the 1970's, the Dolphins were a run oriented team which only passed when necessary. Once Shula drafted Marino, he quickly changed the offensive system to the maximize the passing attack which Marino was most effective at.

    So if the Dolphins happen to sign Peyton Manning, it is up to Philbin to make sure the offensive scheme of the Dolphins suits Manning and the rest of the offensive players on the team. It is not his job to force Manning to run a GB offense he may not feel comfortable running.
     
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  11. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Not good enough.
     
  12. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    My only concern with Manning is us winning enough games that we're too far down in the draft order to actually draft a QB of the future in following drafts.
     
  13. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I will be pissed if they draft a QB in the first round. Unless they make a trade to move up to get Luck or RG3, there is no other QB in this draft worthy of being drafted in the first round. Tannehill, Weeden, and the other second tier QB's are no better then 2nd or 3rd round picks at best. They are only viewed as first round selections by some people because of the QB needs of several teams, including the Dolphins.

    I think that if the Dolphins make the mistake of selecting one of these second tier QB's in the first round. They will be giving up the chance of drafting an impact player at another position and I don't see any of these QB's being an upgrade over Moore.

    At this point, I hope they either sign Manning or Flynn, if Philbin is sold on him as a long term answer. If neither of these QB's sign and the Dolphins aren't able to trade up for Luck or RG3, I would rather see them take Kellen Moore in the fourth or fifth round.

    I think a lot of the teams with QB needs will fill those needs this year and the Dolphins best bet at getting a true franchise type QB might just be to wait until next years draft and trade whatever draft picks it will take to move up and take Matt Barkley.
     
  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Why is the first round more important to you than finding a franchise QB?
     
  15. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    Realistically this team won't be in a position to draft the top QB in any draft. At some point you'll have to pay to play.

    Do we want to pay now, or later?
     
  16. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Because I only see two franchise type QB's in this draft. I would have no problem with the Dolphins trading whatever picks necessary to trade up and pick Luck or RG3. These are the only two QB's in this draft I feel will be long term starters in the NFL.

    The rest of the QB's in this draft do nothing for me. I think they will turn out to be mediocre starters at best, and most of them will never be anymore then backup QB's in the NFL. I think that drafting any other QB in the first round , except Luck or RG3, will be nothing but a complete waste of this first round draft pick by the Dolphins.

    I would rather see the Dolphins draft another offensive lineman, linebacker, safety, CB, or RB with this pick before I would want to see them draft a Tannehill or Weeden, or any of the other 2nd tier QB's in this draft.
     
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  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Then what is your track record?
     
  18. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with your evaluation of the franchise potential QBs in this draft. And frankly so does most every analyst I read. As you said, we'll see what happens.
     
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  19. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    If it means making us relevant and winning superbowls, then I don't care if we have any 1st round picks at all.
     
  20. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    A great coach adapts "their system" to the talent they have to work with. Bad coaches try to slam square pegs in round holes for the sake of using "their system"...
     
  21. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Considering the fact that the only two QB picks of Ireland have been Henne and White, I feel I could certainly do a better job selecting QB's in the draft then he has.

    I would trade Jake Long, this years first and second round rounds picks, plus next years first round pick to the Rams for their first round draft pick. With that pick I would take RG3. Long is starting to have the injuries mount up and basically all the Rams would be getting from the Dolphins beside Long is the Dolphins second round pick this season and their first round pick next year. They would merely be swapping first round picks this season.

    This may not be enough to make a trade with the Rams but doing everything necessary to trade up for RG3 is far more important to the Dolphins future than drafting one of the 2nd tier QB's in this draft would ever be.
     
  22. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    Mannings system= A variation of the Air Coryel offense, medium-long range vertical passing

    Green Bay's system= A variation of the West Coast offense, short-medium quick passing, usually more horizontal than vertical.

    Two different systems. Not saying Manning couldn't grasp the west coast, but its not the same system he's used to. Tough to teach an old dog new tricks, especially one coming out of a really bad arm/neck injury.
     
  23. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    If Manning is healthy and he signs with the Dolphins, you create an offensive system to fit Manning. You don't force him to fit into a system that may not be conducive to what he does best. Just because Philbin came from a WCO doesn't mean that the Dolphins HAVE to run this offense if it doesn't suit one of the best QB's in the history of the NFL.

    I have no idea why anyone thinks the Dolphins would sign Manning unless they plan on implementing an offense to suit his skills. If the Dolphins are really only to go with the WCO, no matter who the next QB is. They obviously would have no real interest in signing Manning if they felt he couldn't function well in this offense. Of course if the coaching staff is so adamant that the offense has to be the WCO, and that prevents them from going after a healthy Manning. I would begin to wonder about how effective this coaching staff will be going forward.
     
  24. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    Some successful coaches like Shula can change their systems and adapt to their players. Others are strictly system coaches. Both can be successful given the right tools. I think Philbin could be a very good coach, but I'm not positive he's in the Shula mold. Andy Reid, Mike Holmgren, Mike McCarthy, even Bill Walsh(the architect of this system), are strictly system coaches and find players to suit their system. Philbin comes from that coaching tree and would most likely be a system coach. Why should Manning be forced upon Philbin if he feels Manning is not a fit for the type of offense he wants to run? Its like drafting a 4/3 defensive end to be a pass rusher in a 3/4, sometimes it works but sometimes that player is meant to be in that particular scheme.
     
  25. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Not what I asked.

    You said you'd be pissed if we took a QB in the first, if it wasn't Luck or RGIII. You said that was because you didn't feel any other QB was a first round talent. So I was wondering what you're track record was at evaluating college QBs. I'm clearly still waiting.
     
  26. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    I wouldn't be upset if we took Tannehill in the first two rounds, whether we signed Manning or Flynn or neither. If Mike Sherman thinks he's ready and Philbin thinks he can develop and transistion to the NFL, I don't see the problem. To me, Flynn and Tannehill are the less riskier choices than Manning due to familiarity with the coaches and system. Plus, both are healthy, young, and hungry.
     
  27. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I would as well trade for RG that is, especially if the browns and redskins aquire Manning and Flynn respectively, I think you might not have to go up to 2 to get him...we'll see how it goes, but I'am not discounting RG..

    Luck is an untouchable..
     
  28. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    This is a good point, but....a healthy Peyton Manning, even for two years, is a guy you adjust your scheme for. Philbin is smart enough to see that. We're not talking about bringing in Palmer after 8 mons of inactivity or a mediocre Orton or even a highly touted rookie...this is a HOF QB who until this injury showed NO signs of aging....


    If you brought in Brady, Brees, Rivers, or Big Ben...you adjust your offense to that guy. You'd do the same with Manning...
     
  29. Dolphin1184

    Dolphin1184 Member

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    Considering he has already said that he would adapt a system to the players he has, I fail to see your point.
     
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  30. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    Well, glad you're not the GM, because that trade for RGIII would ruin this franchise even more than Spielman and Wannstedt.
     
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  31. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Philbin himself said 'What is the WCO ?'. His offense is a hybrid of what those other guys you mentioned ran and have run. Reid's version is a lot different than McCarthy's. Holmgren and Shanny run different versions of either. Walsh's version wouldn't even work in today's NFL. Philbin, if he's anything like his bio and some folks have said about him, would be just fine in adjusting his system to fit Manning. ANY coach would do the same thing.... I don't see this as an issue. If he has the opportunity to work with Manning, making it fit would be the last of the issues...
     
  32. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I think Philbin would agree as he stated you try to maximize your players strengths and minimize their weaknesses ... sounds like he would want Peyton ( or anyone ) to be in the best position to succeed .
     
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  33. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    For a second I thought this was gonna be an STD thread.
     
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  34. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    the poor house

    this was what i had tried to say before the season ended the kid from usc staying hurt us and by wining games thatt were not getting us intothe playofffs we lose for losing in this senario . this is a pet peeve plus the fact that we never make bold moves to make a positive difference.
     
  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not sure I'am following, you wanted to lose games so we could draft barkley?, what exactly is your pet peeve?
     
  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    my bad.
     
  37. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Since I am not an NFL GM, I clearly don't have a track record for evaluating college QB's. I am merely a fan who happens to watch a lot of college football games during the season and I base my opinion on what I see on the field.

    I saw Luck, RG3, Tannehill, Weeden, and a few of the other QB's listed in the top of this years QB class play several times this past season. While Luck and RG3 certainly impressed me. None of the other QB's in this draft class made my toes tingle. Weeden played very well, but he also played with the best wide receiver in college football. During the Senior bowl game when he didn't have Blackmon to throw to, he looked awful.

    I am not that high on Tannehill either. He didn't play very well in the games against the better teams on Texas A&M's schedule. Also both Weeden and Tannehill played in a conference which has few teams with decent defenses. If the Dolphins could get Tannehill in the third or fourth round, he might be worth a pick in one of these rounds. He could sit for two or three years and maybe he could develop into an adequate starter down the road. I just don't see him or Weeden ever being franchise type QB's in the NFL.

    As a Dolphin fan, I would rather the Dolphins take a player who can come in and contribute in his first year, if they can't get Luck or RG3. I just don't see any of the QB's after these two being able to come in and contribute immediately. If the Dolphins are looking for the FRANCHISE QB they claim they are. They need to do everything possible to trade up and pick RG3. Because I just don't think there are any FRANCHISE QB's in the draft beyond Luck and RG3.
     
  38. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    ...also, he eats babies.
     
  39. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Did you miss Philbins press conference? He clearly stated he was not bringing Green Bay's offense to Miami and went further to say how he will look at whats here, and play an offense to the strengths of the players they have!

    Manning is a bright person. If he CAN play, I'm willing to bet he'd fit into almost any offense, including any form of a west coast offense. He has always had great touch on all the throws.
     
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  40. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    You don't shy away from Manning unless he can't play. Or unless he refuses to sign if you draft another QB early. If you even see a QB you like this draft.
     

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