Good news..''Put the toothpaste back in the tube''

There are large enough data-sets to just use statistical analysis to prove/disprove these theories.

And whether Williams hated it or not isn't necessarily relevant. What is relevant is whether the amount of noise is improving performance. I'm not sure how that really effects Williams either way, considering he was on offense, when any crowd would be quiet.

 

So I should pipe crowd noise into my company's shipping warehouse? Are you saying my employees would ship more efficiently?

 

So are you saying the players would play exactly the same if there was 0 fans in the stadium?

 

I think the effect on both teams would be the same. I think it would improve the performance of both teams.

 

It doesn't only take a crowd to pump someone up.

If you've never performed or played in front of crowd, the you honestly don't understand the difference.

 

I would assume large crowds would increase anxiety, no?

Again, if anyone has any type of evidence supporting it, I'd be all ears. All the studies I see indicate that the crowd has an effect on officiating, not the players.

 

I don't think anyone here said large raucous crowds was the only way to motivate. However, to say that it doesn't pump up a player, musician, actor, performer, etc. is crazy.

The issue at hand is, does it give us a tangible advantage? I dunno. There's reference to a study that says not really, but I don't know enough about the study to say if agree with it or not. I do however know that there are plenty of studies that have been done on crowds and the "mob mentality".

 

They can. Some people freeze up. Have you never been pumped up by a crowd though?

 

Only have experience at the HS/College level, but no I have not. Generally tried to stay focused, and didn't even notice crowd most of the time. When I did, it was usually because of distraction (attractive female, fight, etc.).

 

Are you both denying that people can be pumped up by a crowd?

 

Humans, especially men, have an innate need to feel acceptance. When you're playing in front of a passionate, spirited, supportive, noisy, fan base, it can increase your desire to either gain their acceptance or prevent disappointment. Why would sports be any different? After all, aren't you the one talking about players giving less b/c their owner might "uninspire" them? Is that not the same thing as players giving more b/c their fans "inspire" them? Sounds hypocritical to me.

You can't quantify both a stadium & fan base's effect using statistical analysis b/c it deals with both emotion and the human will, which can be either expanded or shrunk depending on the intensity of the situation, stimulus, or what have you. I'm not sure how we're even debating this. Motivational speakers wouldn't be paid millions if human behavior weren't subjectable to outside influence. Tony Robbins would be a fraud, and NBA teams like the Spurs would be fools for using his services to help motivate their team.

Here's a few examples of teams using external motivators as fuel to will themselves to a higher level in order to accomplish a goal:

Honestly, this isn't even debatable. Human beings are subjectable to outside influence.
It's the reason companies spend millions on advertising during the Super Bowl.
It's the reason we get talked into doing something we normally wouldn't.
It's the reason we risk death to run into a burning building when we otherwise wouldn't.
It's the reason people go to operas.
It's the reason men pay for phone sex. lol.
It's the reason humans have spent billions on audio electronics & their development, music, 7.1 surround, thumping subwoofers, $14 IMAX movie tickets, etc.

Sound represents 16.7% of our senses, not including the energy we feel from its waves..... Are you trying to say that both crowd noise and the emotional state of its noise are exceptions?

 

The answers you guys give to the following 3 scenarios should solve this debate:
***please play along b/c it is an actual experiment***

Instructions
-Play clip #1.
-Play clip #2 with the volume cranked up. (make sure it's turned up before the clip starts)
-Play clip #3 with volume cranked up.

-Do any clips have a greater impact on your emotional state and/or adrenaline than the others?

[video=youtube;Y8ZInfMWLCU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8ZInfMWLCU&feature=related[/video]

[video=youtube;UgUlp2X6Kc4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgUlp2X6Kc4&feature=related[/video]

[video=youtube;RnzklukgDw8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnzklukgDw8[/video]

 

No, it cannot affect players.

 

Its not about a passive fan making the players play any less harder. The competitive advantage of it would be for opposing teams offenses only because of the noise level.

 

There was nothing like the Orange bowl as far as noise but the noise only affects the opponents. It does not make the home teams play any harder.

 

It really was insane when the team was good. It is where the decimal meter began to be used to show crowd noise. You could hear crickets though when the team was bad.


JRS is not as loud and anyone who would argue it would be nuts but it can get extemely loud at JRS. The playoff game against the Colts was rocking and Manning even commented on it plus he had to take a late timeout because of the crowd.

 

I just dont understand this fantasy of a concept.

 

Nope! There is no way in hell I'll ever believe players play better because a fan is on top of them.

However, I do believe the home fans can affect plays by screaming their collective asses off when the opponents offense is on the field. For sure...

 

Not if your talking about a player not playing at his best because the crowd is not into it. Not happening in pro sports.

 

No matter what the fans are experiencing or what the noise level is, it does not make a player play to a lesser degree. Having a good game day experience for fans and a loud n roudy stadium gives the players something to mess with while they are on the sidelines. Once on the field they tune that stuff out. Unless it is the opponent, who cannot hear, and has to call a timeout or a play is blown because someone could not hear the call.....

 

Extra adrenaline can also make players not preform to the level the can. It can dehydrate you faster, and make the muscles tighten up in an instant.

 

By far the loudest game I've been to at JRS. When Lamar Smith was headed to the endzone to end the game that place was almost as loud as the Orange Bowl. But the crowd did not create the atmosphere for the offense to win it. When the offense is on the field the crowd is only a quarter as loud because the offense does not want the noise at home...

 

What Stephen Ross does certainly doesn't affect anything on game day. It affects what goes on almost any other time though. Playing with injuries, practicing as hard as you play, extra hours watching film. That is what happens when the players don't trust their bosses.

You absolutely can quantify the effects, thats the entire point of statistical analysis. You have large enough datasets to do so. There certainly has been enough to quantify the effect on the officials.

How are Tony Robbins speeches are analogous with people screaming?

Imagine yourself being in a knife-fight against 5 men.

Now imagine yourself being in a knife-fight against 5 men with 40,000 people screaming around you.

Would you be any less confident in either of the two situations?

 

The only thing that had anything resembling an emotional impact was Brian Dawkins pre-game speech.

Surely a Brian Dawkins speech before the game has more affect on someone's emotions than crowd noise - which ironically wasn't in any of the three clips posted. Also ironic that Brian Dawkins isn't giving these same speeches between every play.

Why don't we see players wearing iPods and headphones during games? How about between plays they pipe in clips from Gladiator and Scarface into their headsets???

 

I live in SD and have never heard any complaints about this issue, but frankly i dont think many of them give a f***... fans here are happy when the games arent blacked out

 

So you're agreeing that emotion or adrenaline is affected by a louder noise level full of positive emotion, energy, and spirit attempting to motivate you to your highest level of performance. That's what I've been trying to say.

I'd just like to know one things. Why do so many athletes listen to music pregame, frequently followed by a pep talk by a player or coach? What's the point if sound has no affect on performance?

***What about players whose main modality for communication is "auditory"? Their world revolves around sound, and auditory people represent 25-30% of the population. Then there's another 25-30% of the population that uses some combination of the 3 modalities (auditory, visual, kinesthetic). Combined, that could be nearly half the Dolphins roster.

No it's not.
If he gave one to the offense, there'd be a delay of game.
Giving one to his defense would allow an offense to quick snap them to death. lol.

The clips weren't meant to show crowd noise. They were meant to show how sound in general may or may not impact emotional state or adrenaline, which you've agreed it does.

Probably b/c the NFL doesn't allow it.
Do we not see players wearing headphones pregame or the team cranking up the stadium speakers with a ritualistic pregame song?

I thought the sequence for many players went something like this:
1. a specific type of music en route to the game (for motivation & focus)
2. followed by headphones in the locker room (continued motivation & focus)
3. locker room coach pep talk (to heighten motivation, pump the team up, keep focus)
4. player pep talk on the field, possibly after running out the tunnel in some type of motivational manner. (further motivation; get guys ready for battle)
5. players smacking helmets, hitting each other, popping shoulder pads. (more battle prep; get the adrenaline flowing)

If players go through so much effort to pump themselves up before games (the majority is noise related), then doesn't it make sense that a crowd should be capable of picking up where the pregame music & pep talks left off? If a team can draw energy & motivation from one Brian Dawkins, then why cant they do the same from 70,000+ consistently loud & energetic fans?

 

Only a fraction of communication is through actual words themselves, roughly 7% to be exact.
55% is voice quality (pitch, tone, volume, etc)
38% is nonverbal communication like body language & facial expression.

Do the hairs on our arms & neck stand up b/c of the actual words Dawkins says?..... or is it from his voice quality & nonverbal communication?
Dawkins could be speaking Mandarin and it'd still elicit goosebumps. Sound is sound. 70,000 fans who are consistently loud in a passionate, supportive, energetic, and enthusiastic manner with related body language most certainly can and does have a motivating affect on performance.

It's this energy source that we see players pull from when they might have nothing left to give.
It's this type of energy source from a trainer that motivates a lifter to summon up that one last rep that they would've otherwise given up on.

It's this noisy type of energy source that gets our endorphins flowing when a Ferrari drives by and drops the hammer down.


Seriously, check this video out. Crank it up. Plug it into your stereo if you can.
Cut right to 0:27 for our experiment and stay till at least 1:10.

[video=youtube;yhPFubhO0qA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhPFubhO0qA[/video]




Notice on the overpass you don't feel much sense of anything during routine traffic. Did this change when the 355 drove by?

If you felt anything, was it b/c the Ferrari was talking to you like KIT? lol.
Was it parroting Brian Dawkins' pregame speech?
Or is it just a bunch of arousing noise?


It's no surprise we're not the best 4th quarter team, specifically during the final 5 minutes [of a physically demanding, taxing, and rigorous sport where players can use an extra push]. Our crowd spirit is like a Nissan Z at best, a decent 6 cylinder. During normal driving, it's ok; you can hear a little something present.... but definitely nothing special or endorphin eliciting. When you punch the gas, its sound will get noticed and should have some sort of impact on your endorphins/adrenaline, but it falls well short of the Ferrari above which will grab your attention at a cruising 2500 RPMs, and get your adrenaline flowing when it's opened up.

 

If you don't have access to decent computer sound or an overpass with a Ferrari driving by, this one should raise a few hairs from even a laptop.

[video=youtube;MXIkB_mEZHI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXIkB_mEZHI&feature=related[/video]





Ooop, heeeere comes the Dolphin fans driving by in Joe Pro Land Sun Stadium (at their current noise-energy-spirit pinnacle).........

[video=youtube;OXCfcByVJyE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXCfcByVJyE[/video]


**Note: When you hear rocks flying and the crackling of branches, it means there's room for improvement. lol.
The end sounds like a novice trumpeter.

 

Then compare that to my personal favorite, Pagani Zonda. This one's near worthy of "Sexiest Object on the Planet".
Driver lays into it around 3:00. Just something about Italian engines.

I think I just came... back to watch it again... b/c it's just. that. amazing.
Listening to this thing is like a caffeine substitute.... or Peruvian flake.

[video=youtube;WzOk9ymW4fg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzOk9ymW4fg&feature=fvsr[/video]


I included the below vid b/c it's annoying to notice all the non Chevy Malibus in this part of London.
(nothing against a Malibu; it's one of hundreds I could've pulled from a hat. Sorry, that didn't sound flattering either.)

[video=youtube;QfsTsHGgOhg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfsTsHGgOhg[/video]

 

Yes, players definitely tune the noise out to an extent, but as Hershel Walker said, the noise affected his concentration and game, and that's just the affect on "away" players.

For home players, they can also tune out most noise during their state of immense concentration, especially QB's (which I can attest to as an ex QB/Pitcher because I might as well have been wearing ear plugs with how little I heard on the field).

However, football action isn't constant..... but the breaks in between action are.
During plays the crowd is tuned out, but in between, players have time to listen to its home crowd and pull from its energy which can start the fraction of a second it takes to hear the crowd roar as you break a run or stuff a back behind the LOS.

If you're on the sideline anxiously waiting to get in the game or back in the game, then you're not really tuning anything out; at that point, you're basically apart of the crowd. You can feel everything, hear everything, sense everything. If you're a special teamer, that energy can play a part in helping to pump you up for a kickoff similarly to Dawkins' pre-game rage. If you're on offense, it can provide that extra boost to really take it to the defensive lineman you're about to meet, give you that extra gear late in a game to get by your DB for a big completion, or give a running back the drive to fight for that 1 extra yard that might mean the difference between extending the drive or punting. If you're on defense, it's extra energy that might help you beat the tackle for a big time sack, or lay a bone crushing hit that energizes the crowd so you can further feed off them.


If none of this made a difference, players wouldn't emphatically raise their hands toward the crowd to get them going so that the players in turn could feed off that energy.