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Marshall's performance in the Pro Bowl.......

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ToddsPhins, Jan 29, 2012.

  1. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    No use arguing with Aqua 04. He loves Matt Moore too.... :wink2:
     
  2. Killer Bees

    Killer Bees Bringin' the Ruckus

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    thank you, honestly how can even consider this? I mean look at the upside Cam has.
     
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  3. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    All that, and Matt Moore still has a better passer rating.
     
  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    your new here dude, sometimes people can have theories that might not make sense to everyone but wind up being correct in the long run..KB is someone that has said things that make you think ''Oh hell no'', but winds up correct, I've learned to respect his football acumen even though I disagree with him on certain topics...Ive also learned that Trowa is a cool dude too.

    I believe what Marshall said about Moore was not cool at all, in fact I think it was disrespectful to Moore, his family, and his livlelihood,bottom line, you don't fu%$ with another mans livelihood, however, I just hope we can all speak to each other and respect each others opinions even though they might be different from what we believe.
     
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  5. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    :jt0323:
    Don't let him fool you...... Dolphins nation is a mess.
     
  6. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    Because clearly passer rating is the only thing that matters in evaluating a QB :roll: And hell, that's if you only count THIS season. In Matt Moore's rookie season he had a 67.0 passer rating, a full 17.5 points lower than Cam Newton. Over his career he has a 80.1 QBR. That's 4.4 points lower than Cam Newton. So IF QBR is the only stat you use to evaluate a QB then Newton still wins.

    But let's take it a step further. In 5 years Matt Moore has accounted for 5,191 yards and 33 TDs. That's over the course of 35 games played, 25 games started. In 16 games Cam Newton accounted for 4,757 yards and 35 TDs. With over double the games played Matt Moore barely beats out Cam Newton by 434 yards. That's only 2 more yards than Cam got in his first career game.

    The numbers don't lie dude.
     
  7. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    which is a good thing, since all of his best games come against the best opponents.

    Brandon Marshall is a jewel of a player. Big, Physical, plays with a mean disposition, and is a dominating type player that seems to have an edge on the best cover corner in the world. (Revis).

    yeah, I think we should keep him.
     
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  8. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Numbers don't lie, and volume numbers don't equate to wins. Of all the numbers you quoted me, passer rating is the one state that correlates most with winning. Therefore, it is one of the two most meaninful passing metrics to follow. Oh, and if we are going to compare apples to apples, Matt Moore's passer rating as a starter during his rookie season was 85.0.
     
  9. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    ....and how many touchdowns did he drop this season? So that wasn't Brandon Marshall that tripped over his own two feet and fell out of bounds on yet another missed touchdown?
     
  10. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    passer rating is an outdated stat. it doesn't take into account the possibility that a QB can break a play from the 8 yard line when everybody is covered, outrun a linebacker to the corner and run over a d-back to score a TD.

    In essence..that stat is worthless in this discussion.
     
  11. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Yet, it has a higher correlation with winning than any of the stats you can bring up to counter it.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/kerry_byrne/08/03/defending-qb-rating/index.html
     
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  12. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    he dropped 79 touchdowns this season. By July..the number will be at 156. If he drops one next year in an early game, the number will be 1,895 TD's dropped this year.

    Roddy White and Reggie Wayne dropped more passes than he did this year, and Wes Welker once led the league in drops.

    Taken in isolation, his "dropped" touchdowns drop to a similar number to every other elite receivers dropped td's when analyzed without a bias.
     
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  13. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Prove it. Show me how many touchdowns Calvin Johnson dropped vs Brandon Marshall's dropped touchdowns.
     
  14. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    not really. A football team has too many moving parts and the league is too random to use a metric to measure which stat correlates to winning. it is not Basketball or Baseball.
     
  15. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    I guess that's why the Panthers won 3x the number of games this year as they did last year when...wait for it...Matt Moore was their QB for 6 games and benched after 2. Alright man, you clearly aren't going to listen to reason, numbers, empirical facts or logic. You also still haven't provided one single shred of irrefutable proof that Brandon Marshall beat his wife. You just make accusations you can't back up with facts. Like saying I condone beating women. So go ahead and believe whatever you want. I'm through with you.
     
  16. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    I said that you can take Marshalls dropped td's..which some on here put the number at 5 or so....and analyze them individually, and the number drops to around 3.

    If you want Calvin Johnson as the measuring stick, you started on the wrong foot. Because he dropped 2 that I know of off the top of my head. And Calvin Johnson at one time was considered the most overrated WR in the NFL, as no other top target WR did less with his targets than CJ.
     
  17. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    You mean the same Carolina Panthers that have a better record with Matt Moore as their starting quarterback than they have with any other quarterback starting for them? Carolina is 7-6 with Matt Moore as their starter and 28-39 without Matt Moore as their starter over the past 5 years.
     
  18. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    OK. So now we aren't considering certain dropped touchdown passes true drops, even though the ball hit the receiver square in the hands.
     
  19. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    if a player is running a slant and he is long enough and flexible enough to reach back across his face at a terribly placed ball, thrown hot, that is not a drop. Because a lesser WR doesn't get his hands anywhere near that ball.

    Just like a Calvin Johnson drop is usually a pass that sails out of bounds or over the head of a Brian Hartline. it is the skill of those guys that make difficult catches seem easier than they really were.
     
  20. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    if we must do a WR check again...let me be clear.

    There are TWO true elite, consistent, complete WR's in the game.

    Larry Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson.

    Then a second group headed by Calvin Johnson and then the rest, of which Brandon Marshall is a part of.

    Again..I want one of those guys on my team.
     
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  21. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Calvin Johnson is a horrible person to use to compare in terms of targets.

    Was any other WR triple-covered like that?
     
  22. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    the numbers that suggest that he was a terrible WR, all pre-date this season...obviously. Which is my point.
     
  23. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Aside from blatant drops, numbers don't usually tell you all that much with WRs, imo.

    And if anyone's suggesting that BM is in the same class as Fitz or CJ I'd say def not and I don't think he'll ever be as good as either.

    Not to say he's not somewhere in that 2nd tier you mentioned. Although that tier is going to look a lot diff after next season with all the new young guys blowing up.
     
  24. Laces Out

    Laces Out Well-Known Member

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    Thread is

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    because 1.2 TD's a game in this league where the rules so grossly slant to the offense that Cam Newton can come in as a rookie and throw for 4000 yard just isnt cutting it...... period

    so to me if a QB has a rating of 105 and he is throwing 1.2 TD's a game....I WANT BETTER...we should all want better....this is who Matt Moore is...
     
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  26. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Thats a small sample size. Moore came in late in the season for the injured Jake Delhomme and had some success.....he caught defenses off guard, fast forward to the next season before he was injured and see how bad he was once defenses had tape on him. It was night and day. His 7 starts of 2009 8 touch downs 2 ints. His 6 starts in 2010 5 touch downs 10 ints and a 55 qb rating. (all after an entire offseason with the starters, however the Panthers STILL drafted a qb ((claussen)) when they had Moore on the team)

    The guy was 6-7 for the Dolphins, sacked 36 times, and did some good things but also some bad things. The guy is what he is (to use his former coach John Fox's quote) and what he is, is a great back up, teams like houston, chicago and the chiefs would have loved to have him this season. But as far as a super bowl winning franchise qb? No.
     
  27. hazed819

    hazed819 Well-Known Member

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    This can only mean one thing... GET A GOD DAM QUARTERBACK!
     
  28. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Greg Cote understands things pretty well anyway. At least in this case.

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/02/01/2617942/ill-timed-blitz-by-miami-dolphins.html

     
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  29. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Does anyone in this thread honestly think we could win a superbowl with Matt Moore at quarterback? I think if you answer that question honestly, it makes things pretty simple.
     
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  30. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Yes, I do. A superbowl isn't a magical pixie land or a puzzle that needs all the correct parts into place to happen.

    Chances are increased with an elite quarterback, however not having one doesn't make it impossible to win one.
     
  31. hazed819

    hazed819 Well-Known Member

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    Funny you mention this... Who here would of thought Ted Ginn Jr would have such an impact on a team lol. If he was returning those kicks chances are 49ers would be in the SB right now.
     
  32. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Randy Quaid was in just Major League II, not the original.
     
  33. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    :lol:
     
  34. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Since 2005 the superbowl winning team has had an elite, or very close to elite (depending on whether you consider Eli Manning and Ben R. elite) quarterback.

    Of course it's not impossible to win without one. But the game is geared towards passing. The rules and current enforcement of the rules favor elite passing teams. That's not changing.

    So why on earth would anyone argue for choosing to not at least try to replace a QB who clearly isn't elite? It's not like we have to get rid of Matt Moore to upgrade the position.

    I swear, the boners people on this board have for the incumbent QB, no matter who the guy is, is unbelievable. I remember when people used to make arguments for John ****ing Beck being an effective QB.

    Bottom line, if it's necessary to have pages of debates on whether or not the current QB has what it takes, chances are that team doesn't have a QB good enough to win in today's NFL.
     
  35. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    For me upgrading is a no-brainer, you upgrade when ever possible every position. The issue is BM's effort every play, every game and weather he is meddling and throwing his team mates nuder the bus. I look forward to upgrades all over the team including the QB whomever that might be.
     
  36. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    I wouldn't go that far. My point is that he did improve over the 2010 showing. Not saying much because he was a total douche in his first season here.
    He has a long way to go to be considered an elite /classy WR.
     
  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I do not consider the winning Eli or Ben R elite.

    The rest of your post is just emotional diatribe.
     
  38. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    A pretty cop out response if you ask me. Emotional is what some fans around here are to the incumbent QB. An emotional attachment to a player who is not good enough to get the job done. Just because I used a few "swears" and potty mouth talk instead of 50 cent words doesn't make my post irrational.
     
  39. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Miami can win with Matt Moore.

    Posting an irrational response makes your post irrational and using the swears helps point it out. You asked a simple question, I answered it. Then you went on some weird rampage that insinuating that I am in love with the incumbant quarterback. As if my whole argument is based on the fact that I just like Moore because he played for Miami. Especially since you have done the survivor for the last 4 years and have seen my desire to get rid of Chad Henne for the last two years, you should know that is not true. Or if you were around during the Fiedler years, you would know that I really wanted him gone.

    Moore isn't a perfect quarterback, however I thought he played really well last season. Give him a line that can actually block for him and I think he can take the team to the superbowl.

    If that was the only qualification for desiring a new quarterback, then I do not think Miami needs one. However the question of whether you want a new quarterback or not should not be based on the question, "Can he win a superbowl?"

    Is there a quarterback available that puts Miami in a better position to win a superbowl? Yes, and I am all for bringing one of them on.

    The thing I do like about Matt Moore is Miami could take a chance on one of the talented not ready for prime time quarterbacks and compete in the next one or two years with Matt Moore(if they extend his contract of course.) Unlike the other guy he gives Miami flexibility.
     
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  40. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    A much better response than your first one. The love of incumbent QBs wasn't aimed entirely at you. Although I did assume you might be guilty based on your response, which was probably an unfair leap to make.

    I think you can admit that there is always a pretty large percentage of fans on this board who demonstrate an emotional attachment to the incumbent QB whether he is qualified or not.

    I agree Moore played well last season, but I disagree with you about Moore's chances to take this team or any team for that matter to a superbowl. Despite a generally good rating and doing some nice things, I don't think his production is at a level where he could get a team to the big dance. Not enough TDs, not enough passing yards. At least when compared to the elite QBs. I'd need to see more 300 yard / multiple TD games out of Matt Moore before I would even come close to thinking he could lead a team to a superbowl. But that's just my opinion.
     

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