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Marshall's performance in the Pro Bowl.......

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ToddsPhins, Jan 29, 2012.

  1. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I challenge anyone to examine the careers of the top 50 QBs in NFL history and come up with at least 5 names who didn't have either an abundance of talent or some elite talent at WR/TE/RB to help him reach his true potential.
     
  2. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    IMO he took an aging Nat Moore and Irving Fryer, decent Mark Ingram and OJ McDuffie and above average Mark Duper and Mark Clayton, then he made them great.
     
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  3. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Ferrell Edmunds? Joe Rose? Jimmy Cefalo? Jim Jensen?
     
  4. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Dan Marino :)
     
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  5. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box


    Drayton, Jordan, Cefalo, Thomas, Clark, Humphrey, Edmunds off the top of my head and Terry Kirby thrived with Marino throwing to him....
     
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  6. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Dude, I'm all about the Wr. I played Wr, and Cb so usually the Qb's are my least favorites. But Marino had that it factor during the regular season. It meaning he was going to lead the team to win and in so many cases, he used his average catchers and made them look way above what they were.
     
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  7. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box


    Tim Tebow.......

    Everyone in the NFL has an abundance of talent though.
     
  8. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Did he blow in Duper & Clayton's direction to get them running by defenders? It wasn't Marino that ran the routes, gained the separation, and caught the passes. They were great receivers, and explosive at that. A QB would be lucky to have either of them, let alone both compounding matters for defenses.

    Fryer? After leaving Miami, that "aging" Fryer played even better in Philly with Detmer, Peete, and Hoying with back to back Pro Bowl seasons. What's that say about Marino? Better yet, what's that say about Fryer?

    Nat Moore was a more productive All-Pro with Griese than Marino, so I'm not sure your point about him having a few more decent years to end his career that weren't quite as good as the ones during the early and middle.

    Like I said, Marino didn't make McDuffie a 1st round draft pick, so your assumption that Marino is responsible for his solid NFL career isn't very palatable, and it's somewhat a slap in the face of OJ.
     
  9. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    One could debate everything to be true here......except Mark Clayton. Dude was definitely great.
     
  10. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Said the Bills GM!!





































    OJ, Clayton, Warfield. My favorite Dolphins wideouts.
     
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  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    OJ Duffie is one of my favorite receivers, however it is very palatable that Marino was responsible for his solid NFL career and not a slap in the face at all.

    That fact the Nat Moore played with Griese proves my point.

    Duper and Clayton were fine receivers but neither would even considered Hall of Famers without Marino throwing them the rock.
     
  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    mostly average football players..

    Marino never had his own tight end that could dominate, never a big #1 wideout, never a run game, and never a defense...I don't wonder why he never won, Its obvious to me that the front office built the most ridiculously unbalanced football team ever..
     
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  13. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    NFL's All Time #7 ranked WR corps?? Marks Brothers (with Nat Moore). Did you even watch those guys play? They were like having duplicates of Greg Jennings in the same offense. :lol:

    This 3 minute clip is worth watching for anyone who either hasn't seen it or needs their memory jogged. lol.

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films...7b/Top-Ten-Receiving-Corps-The-Marks-Brothers


     
  14. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I did watch them play. They would not be up there with Phil Simms or Mark Rypien as their quarterback.
     
  15. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I'm not disagreeing. Marino was my idol growing up, especially since I was a QB. I just feel that he needed those guys to obtain the eliteness he was destined for. You stick him on the 70's Saints and we're singing a different tune IMO. He then becomes "the QB that might've been if he had the talent around him". :tongue2:
     
  16. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    70 Saints would have years of going 8-8 or better with Marino.
     
  17. uab_phin

    uab_phin New Member

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    http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/10/29/stories-of-the-season-the-revis-10/

    At one point in the season Revis had only given up 10 receptions, 5 of them were by Brandon Marshall. This atleast suggests that he is an elite talent, but this can definitely add fuel to the fire that if he can do this against one of the best cover corners in the game then he definitely should be bringing more to the table against lesser corners. Let's enjoy his success and hope that he shows up like this every game next year.

    But he really doesn't need to be petitioning for a better QB nothing good can come from it.
     
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  18. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    :lol:
    I get Spiller, so it's bittersweet. Griddles threw in the "Its Spiller Time" for good measure to help lessen the emotional damage. Plus I added Brian Daboll, will hopefully add Nolan at DC and Bowles at HC to make Buffalo, Miami 2.0, only in a better way than Miami became Dallas 2.0. :lol:


    I'm not old enough to remember Warfield, so Duper & Clayton will likely always be my top 1-2 with Marshall likely solidifying the 3rd spot by next year.
     
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  19. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Jersey
    [video=youtube;EPhaYy8PdLE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPhaYy8PdLE[/video]

    And this was in snowy Buffalo against a defense actually trying.

    Thanks for playing :shifty:
     
  20. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    would Marvin Harrison be a HOFer if a collective of no-namers were throwing him the pigskin?
    Duper ran a 4.25 and was a tremendous vertical threat who frequently made Marino look good on plays that he made on the ball.
    I already posted Keuchenberg's comment about Moore being Miami's single greatest and most rounded WR, ahead of Warfield.
    Clayton was an absolute playmaker b/c he was a playmaker. Marino didn't miraculously inject him with some sort of playmaking virus.


    We had the equivalent of like 3 Greg Jennings at WR. In today's QB friendly NFL with rules more favoring the WR, Duper, Clayton, and Moore would blow up the league with a decent QB; they'd make an average one into a Pro-Bowler; and the studly trio of Giants might just be left grabbing some bench.
     
  21. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Just saw the highlight. Glad he had a good moment.
     
  22. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    Yes, I do believe that Brandon Marshall's performance warranted a pro bowl vote. If you think he didn't give a pro bowl peformance then tell me who should have gone in his place? I've listed the top 10 WRs in the AFC below. Try to justify to me a reason why Brandon Marshall did not deserve to be in the Pro Bowl

    Wes Welker 1569/9
    Mike Wallace 1193/8
    Brandon Marshall 1214/6
    Vincent Jackson 1106/9
    Dwayne Bowe 1159/5
    Nate Washington 1023/7
    Stevie Johnson 1004/7
    AJ Green 1057/7
    Antonio Brown 1108/2
    Pierre Garcon 947/6
     
  23. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I guarantee you that Phil Simms would've been a better QB with them on the field.

    Rypien? hahaha. :lol:...... see below:
    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-presents/09000d5d8114e241/Top-Ten-Receiving-Corps-The-Posse

    "The Posse" (Art Monk, Gary Clark, and Ricky Sanders) still earned their status as NFL's #8 All Time receiving corps despite 4 years with Rypien. They didn't need Marino to earn their #8 honors, just as Clayton, Duper, and Moore would've likely still been an NFL top 10 receiving corps on another team; however, Rypien sure as heck couldn't do squat without the Posse.


    *Rypien with Monk, Sanders, and Clark (his 1st 4 NFL seasons): SB Winner; SB MVP; NFL Offensive POY; 2x Pro Bowl; 70 Greatest Redskins; 84 TDs to 48 INTs.
    *Rypien's 2 subsequent seasons with 31 yr old Sanders, 36 yr old Monk, and no Clark: QBRs of 71 & 56.....17 TDs to 27 INTs.




    Phil Simms was a #7 overall pick who threw for over 20 TDs only 4 times in his career, with a season high of just 22.
    His career numbers were 199 TDs, 157 INTs, and a 78 QBR.
    Mark Bavaro was about all he had IIRC. Lionel Manuel had a couple decent years and wasn't bad, but nothing remarkable either.
    I have a difficult time believing Simms wouldn't have made the HOF if he had either the Marks Bros & Moore, what Theismann had in Washington, or what Bradshaw was afforded in Pitt.



    Your examples support my argument about how a great receiving cast can either make an average QB look great or allow a great to elite QB reach his full potential.

    Actually, your two examples (Rypien & Simms) shows how an outstanding WR corps can make an average QB look & perform significantly better than a more talented QB like Simms who was surrounded with less overall talent.
     
  24. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    {ahem} Archie Manning, the HOFer who never was, has a few words to say on the matter.


    "I vehemently disagree".

    signed,
    Archie Manning



    "PS: If I had either Peyton's targets & protection or Eli's of 2011, I'd be the best Manning hands down."
     
  25. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    If BM were the only fish in the sea you might have a point ...... if BM produced in real games you might have a point ....... if Jeff Ireland is unable to replace him you might have a point ....... And if Brian Hartline needs BM to perform at a high level he needs to hit the door too. That said I stand by every word .. the bus throwing puke need to get cut!
     
  26. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    You really cant expect people to view your arguments as valid when you say stuff like that. You cant expect anyone to listen to your points if you cant express them without using hateful slurs and phrases like "bus throwing puke" (though I'm not quite sure I get that.) Difference of opinion is fine but you clearly have some sort of vendetta with Marshall and when you resort to baseless name calling like that it speaks volumes about your argument and you as a person.
     
  27. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Even though Archie Manning was pretty good, he was no Marino.
     
  28. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I just want him off this team. His presence on this team is cancerous and it drags everyone around him down. Miami had a better passing offense without Marshall than they have had with Marshall.
     
  29. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    Finally. Someone who lives in the real world. :up:
     
  30. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/...ro-bowl-0130-20120130,0,1242438.column?page=1

    Brandon can learn a lot about how to be a professional from Matt Moore. Matt isn't going to say anything. He's not going to speak to the media about a loud mouth, glory seeking, selfish, me first, woman beating, touchdown dropping receiver.

    And if you think this isn't going to happen to the next Dolphins quarterback, whether that is Matt Flynn or Ryan Tannehill, then just sit and watch. Brandon Marshall is no different than Terrell Owens. He is about himself and himself only. He doesn't give two ****s about anyone else on the team. He has a history of disrespecting anyone that comes into contact with him. My hope is that all of this ends with Brandon Marshall being sent to another team. The sooner Miami gets this cancer off this team, the better.
     
  31. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    This isn't really true.

    2010-2011 (w/ Marshall)

    Complete Percentage - 60%
    Yards Per Attempt - 7.0
    TD/INT Ratio - 1.09

    2009 (without Marshall)

    Complete Percentage - 61%
    Yards Per Attempt - 6.2
    TD/INT Ratio - 0.79

    The numbers are better with Marshall. (I didn't include 2008 because Pennington is far and away the best QB we've had in a while and is much better than any QB Marshall has had here.)
     
  32. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    MTV's Real World, maybe.
     
  33. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    How convenient.
     
  34. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    It has nothing to do with convenience. It's about removing variables.

    Marshall never played with Pennington. 2008 was two seasons before Marshall came to the team so it wouldn't make sense to compare the two.

    Even if we just look at the 2009 compared to 2010 we are still better with Marshall. Td/Int ratio went up and so did yards per attempt.
     
  35. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    To accomplish your point. :wink2:
     
  36. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    Our passing game in 2010 with Marshall was better than it was in 2009 without Marshall. It's pretty simple.
     
  37. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    My 10 year old nephew asked me Why Marshall can play so good in the Pro Bowl and play so bad for the Dolphins.
    I had to explain to him that the Pro Bowl is not a real game...... True Story.
     
  38. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I wish Miami had more players could play so bad for the Dolphins
     
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  39. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    And I'm sure he came to this conclusion solely through his own observations and not at all from his uncle who clearly doesn't like Marshall.
     
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  40. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    It's sad that some people feel that it's more important for them to be "right" about Marshall than it is to be happy for a Miami Dolphins player and the Miami Dolphins team for being in the spotlight of the NFL for the right reasons for the first time since 2008. And it's clearly a matter of people having a vendetta against Marshall. It's not a matter of his play. He was (at worst) the 4th best WR in the AFC this year. And when one can't get through a post without insulting him it's very telling of their motives. Some of you have had it out for him since the day we traded for him. Some of you don't like him because you perceive him as a wife beater when there's little to no evidence to support that claim. And some of you simply are on some crusade of jackassery.

    It's simply ridiculous that people want us to cut our first Pro Bowl receiver in 6 years. Not only that, but they want to do it in the face of a $12 million bonus that would be accelerated on our cap putting us at practically ZERO dollars under the cap. Cutting Marshall means no Flynn, no Soliai, no Langford, hell it means no rookies without fundamentally restructuring some deals. But forget the fact that it would CRIPPLE the franchise to cut him, that doesn't matter to some of you. All that matters is your perception of him which is driven by a media that routinely publishes lies and slander. Despite not knowing if what's been reported is true or not, and despite not knowing the entire story, you decide to crucify the man for what you THINK he did or who you THINK he is. I know some people aren't happy unless they're miserable but a lot of you have shown your true colors of what kind of person you truly are in this thread. I'm very disappointed in several of you. Steven Ross isn't the embarrassment of this franchise, it's you people, and you know who you are.
     
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