I had read some place about the challenges that this team has faced over the year. One of the biggest points that I read was the fact that the injuries has had a big impact on our season and no one wants to acknowledge that... So in an effort to bring some levity to the argument I am challenging everyone to prove a point... I challenge you to apply the same injury losses to any other team in the league and provide feedback as to what would happen to that team had they suffered the same losses... We have lost the following key starting players this year due to injury mostly. : QB SS (twice) FS CB (3 times over) MLB (twice over) WR (CC to SD mid season... He would have provided balance to GINN) RB (3 times over) DL (2 for at least 4 weeks and not together) Now, go to any team in the league and apply the same losses to them and what do you think the impact would be on them?
They talked about what would have happened to the Pats with the same injuries during the game yesterday.
I'll agree with everything EXCEPT starting QB. You can't compare Trent Green of this year to Tom Brady. Green was DONE when we grabbed him. He sucked before he got that nasty concussion this year.
Agreed... You can't equate Green to Brady... That is not the point though... The point is that you lose your starting QB... And BTW, we were putting up nice points when Green was in. The Defense is what cost us the most in the beginning of the season...
Doesn't matter.. we're not comparing how good our starting QB's are, we're comparing the deep **** both teams would be without them. We lost our starting QB, and we sucked even worse. If pats lose Tom Brady, their instantly garbage as well.
The Bills suffered even more injuries than us if you can believe it, but they somehow kept their heads above water throughout. Sure their injuries were to different player positions than ours, but they lost a lot of starters regardless.
Well, it seems to me that our team stopped being able to score points when Brown went down, not so much Green. Green was horrible. Green had 5 td's, and 7 picks this year. He only threw 2 td's in one game...and he also threw 4 picks that game. The other three games, he threw 1 td in each game. He wasn't exactly lighting up the scoreboard for us. I think that Brady going down for the Pats would be much worse for them than losing Green was for us, as Brady is far and away much, much better than his backup...the same can't be said for Green vs Lemon.
Look at thier point totals, they should have close to the same record as us(more accurately, both of us should be around where the jets are).
But they've had better drafting in the past 6 years to help alleviate the holes that were created by the injuries. This is a legitimate fact. It is the real way Wanndstoop's drafting has hurt us.
You are really reaching. Even if we were completely healthy we were no better than last year's 6-10. I've got the NFL package and I've watched every second of every game because I love the fins. I can honestly tell you we do suck. But having already hit the bottom we'll be moving in the right direction. At least 2 years away from playoff contention. I know when you love someone or something it's hard to see the truth simply because you don't want to.
I really don't know what to say bro... Granted, our record could only have been 6-10 this year but I can't say that it would have been better or worse. The point that I am trying to make is that with the losses we have had due to injury, this season has suffered due to those injuries... There is nothing out there that would dictate that once the defense turned around at mid-season, that we could have run the board either... So saying that we actually sucked had we not lost those players is like saying that the playoff teams would still be where they are even losing those key players... Just a thought...
Well, you can say that we were 0-4 with our starting offense. Granted, we had some defensive injuries, but, the defense has still played all right, except for the run game. I still think that we'd have been bad this year even without losing our offensive weapons, as the D hasn't been able to stop anybody from doing anything. I mean, even yesterday, the Ravens RAN THE BALL with no timeouts, and were able to get it down to the goal line. Our d is terrible.
i understand your point.I agree with you. No team in the league would have the same record they do know with injuries to the same positions we have had.
I guess I disagree with what I assume to be the premise of the whole theory...the premise seems to be that we would be drastically better had we not had all these injuries. The only area that I really see us better in is our running game...but, based on the first seven games that we had Ronnie, I don't really see us having a much different, if at all different, record than we do now, even if Ronnie hadn't torn his ACL. I agree, other teams would have struggles, if they had the same injuries, but, as I pointed out, the Patriots losing Brady, or the Colts losing Manning is drastically different than the Dolphins losing Green.
Injuries are part of the game, heck the Raverns lost both their 1st and 2nd string QB's and manage to win 4 games
I agree, it's mostly a nonsense argument. The question is whether the players lost were high caliber, players who changed the overall level of the team, not how many injuries you had or where they came from. I can tell you that oddsmakers here in Las Vegas did not adjust Miami's power rating downward due to injury. It was due to incompetence. There's not a single player on our team who earns a gasp whenever he goes out, and oddsmakers and bettors automatically plan an adjustment in strategy for the following week(s). We lost one mostly anonymous and irrelevant player after another. That may seem like an oversimplification but it's significantly more true than pretending we were a gosh darn good team before the unlucky injury bug.
No one is saying that the without the injuries we would have been a playoff team, or even a winning team. We might have just been, say, 6-10. Now if you take the STARTERS (Brown, Bell, Thomas, Holliday, etc.) away from a 6-10 team because of injuries, and because of no depth thanks to Wannidiot, then it isn't that hard to believe you have a 1 win team. Which is all anyone is trying to say. Your points are ultimately wrong, because no one his directly comparing our starters to the Pats starters. Is it however, so beyond the realm of possibility that if you took away all the Pats players that are hurt for the Dolphins this year, they might have lost maybe 5 games, and still be 12-5?
I'm pretty sure that Zach Thomas and Ronnie Brown are not anonymous and irrelevant players. And to a lesser extent, the same can be said of Yeremiah Bell, Renaldo Hill, Chris Chambers (traded) and Trent Green. Incidentally, say what you will about Green, but he is most definitely a better quarterback than Cleo Lemon.
i have heard of selective hearing-but selective reading-wow gee let's see-take away number one QB with injury-Brady-take away number one receiver with a trade-Moss-would they have the same record-of course not- just like if the fins did not have all the injuries-would we be in the playoffs hell no-but we would have ad different record-which was the point
I agree Lou that some of us are getting a bit crazy, but because of frustration and having no faith in your team, it has blinded you in the total opposite direction. If Miami had not lost all the key players they did, Miami wins at least 7-8 games. This team was not a playoff team, but their much closer then you think.
And this is exactly my point... All these discussions about CAM being a bad coach and how Wayne has no respect for this team and JT has to go and on and on, wouldn't be appearing on these boards... Instead, it would have been more about our depth and our needs to get us into the playoffs next year. Sure, our team is bad, but it isn't as bad as our record would indicate... We definitely need a couple of more good drafts to be a serious threat for a ring, but to say that this team SUCKS is just not right! As one poster stated, the Ravens have lost many a player as well and they are 4-10... Now they have lost what 8 games in a row? Even with what was considered one of the best defenses in the league at one point, the injuries definitely impacted their season as well... Also, it is not about the number of injuries on a team, like Houston per-sai, it is about the positions lost that matters. That is why I brought this point up... You take any team in the NFL and apply the injuries that we have incurred to that team, some would be challenging us for the bottom ranking in the NFL and others wouldn't be no where close to be in a playoff hunt...
I like the concept of this ... take any team, and apply what they would look like with the injuries that the Dolphins have dealt with. In the case of the Patriots, I think things would look drastically different if they had dealt with this adversity ... Defenses likely wouldn't be fearing Matt Cassell instead of Brady at QB, especially with Kyle Eckel at RB instead of Laurence Maroney. Take away Moss at WR and replace him with Gaffney, and the offense suddenly doesn't look like the juggernaut it has been. On the defensive side, the secondary should be getting lit up, with Mel Mitchell replacing Rodney Harrisson at SS and Willie Anderson taking over for Eugene Wilson at FS. Rookie S/CB Brandon Meriweather would be filling in for All-World CB Asante Samuel. The middle of the D would be held down by grizzled vets (and former Fins) Junior Seau and Larry Izzo, instead of Teddy Bruschi and Eric Alexander. Finally, replace space-eating DT Vince Wilfork with LeKevin Smith. I'm fairly certain that with a lineup like this the Patriots likely wouldn't make the playoffs, let alone go undefeated. While they have had some losses (Seymour early in the year, Colvin, etc.), it hasn't been the absolute devastation to key positions as we have seen with Miami this year. Interesting food for thought ...
I am sorry, while I appreciate the sentiment, no matter how you slice it, we suck. 1-13 sucks no matter what the reason. I have great hopes that we will finish 2-14 and that sucks. And we are our record. There is no getting around it. There are valid explanations for our suckitude, but it does not change the fact that we are bad. I have great hopes for the future of OUR TEAM. But right now, IT SUCKS. I am sorry.
Right on post, losing one scrub (then) then replacing that scrub with yet another a scrub is what ultimating caused 1-13. No depth....................
Sorry, but FINintheMOON makes a good point, and not seeing it is just being short sighted. Why do you think so many teams become all of a sudden great after a bad year, because after one reason or another the team that tanked the year before come back at fuul strength, and plays a last place schedule. Some teams are that bad, in fact more times the not, they are, but there teams with enough talent to be competitive, that have a very unlucky year. This supposed bad team beat badly a very good bears team (that by the way, went to the superbowl) then followed that up by shuting out another very good Patriots team that just missed the superbowl. If not for our QB and HC problems last year, this team reaches the playoffs, but you think in one year Miami goes from having enough talent, to be bad? Nope, not buying that.
