Chad Henne in the WCO

I'd have no problem with that and think it'd be a sound approach.

I look at how the Chargers have built an offense around Rivers' strengths (the vertical passing game) and believe we could do the same with Moore, only I like Moore's approachability as a person/player better. In this type of system with a few more player additions who meet his strengths, I also don't see why Matt couldn't develop into a 90+ passer.

What I've been saying Henne has needed (but never got) is exactly what Moore is receiving and is subsequently seeing success because of. IMO, outside of the elite QBs, their success is more determinant upon external factors like coaching, if the offensive scheme/playbook and surrounding cast accent his strengths, and if he has some support from his Oline, ground game, and even defense & special teams to a degree (because of the benefit of turnovers and short field opportunities). In the right system and under the right circumstances, Moore can look like a top 12 QB and be successful; under the wrong ones he can look like a perennial backup.

Under the wrong circumstances a QB could be left ensuring the Lucky Charms are pushed to the front of the shelf; under ideal ones he becomes HOF candidate.
Under poor circumstances, a HOF caliber QB has an average to mediocre career, while a less talented one in a great situation with a great surrounding cast wins 4 SBs.
I love how people think the sensitivity of the QB position is exclusive to Henne.

 

Inexperienced Gates allows the DB to run him out of bounds on a route where Henne throws a perfect ball that should've put us in FG range.
Tight coverage.
Tight coverage.
Marshall held.

 

This is from ESPN, quit your lying.

[TABLE="class: tablehead, width: 0"]
[TR="class: colhead"]
[TD="align: left"]BY QUARTER[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, align: left"]CMP[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, align: left"]ATT[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, align: left"]YDS[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, align: left"]CMP%[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, align: left"]AVG[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, align: left"]LNG[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, align: left"]TD[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, align: left"]INT[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, align: left"]SACK[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, align: left"]RAT[/TD]
[TD="class: textright bleft, align: left"]ATT[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, align: left"]YDS[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, align: left"]AVG[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, align: left"]LNG[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, align: left"]TD[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: oddrow"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]QUARTER = 1[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]59[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]95[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]694[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]62.1[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]7.31[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]46[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]3[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]3[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]6[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]81.6[/TD]
[TD="class: textright bleft, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]5[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]28[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]5.6[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]16[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: evenrow, bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]QUARTER = 2[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]59[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]98[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]663[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]60.2[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]6.77[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]47[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]7[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]2[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]11[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]95.7[/TD]
[TD="class: textright bleft, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]13[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]20[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]1.5[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]11[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: oddrow"]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]QUARTER = 3[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]50[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]82[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]666[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]61.0[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]8.12[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]65[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]3[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]6[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]98.9[/TD]
[TD="class: textright bleft, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]3[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]11[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]3.7[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]6[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: transparent, align: left"]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: evenrow, bgcolor: transparent"]
[TD="bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]QUARTER = 4[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]40[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]68[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]449[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]58.8[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]6.60[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]41[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]3[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]4[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]12[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]68.8[/TD]
[TD="class: textright bleft, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]11[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]6[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]0.5[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]9[/TD]
[TD="class: textright, bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left"]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

You were looking at the FIRST quarter lmao!!!! 4th is TERRIBLE. Thanks for trying though.

 

Do people on either side of the fence on Henne or Moore, believe either one can be in the Manning, Brady, Brees or Rodgers group at this point in their careers?

Because, quite frankly, that should be all we care about as a franchise.

 

Do the work yourself. Look up Henne and Moore on ESPN and look at the splits.

 

This is all we have right now. Sadly.

 

Already did, you were wrong. LOL!

 

Actually I'm looking at the 4th quarter +/- 7.

 

Not sad, it is what it is. It should actually always be what we concern ourselves with as a franchise.

Again:

If I was GM, here's what I'd do every year with the draft:

1. Do I have a franchise QB?
If no go to #2. If yes, then is he 30 or older? If no then skip the steps. If yes, go to #2.

2. Is there a QB available that I feel has a 65% or better chance to be a franchise?
If no go to #3. If yes, draft him with your first pick.

3. Is there a QB available that I feel has a 50% chance or better to be a franchise?
If no draft BPA. If yes, draft him with your second pick.

And for Free Agency:

1. Do I have a franchise QB?
If no go to #2. If yes, then is he 30 or older? If no then skip the steps. If yes, go to #2.

2. Is there a QB available that I feel has a 65% or better chance to be a franchise?
If no go to #3. If yes, sign him without giving up picks the next year.

3. Is there a QB available that I feel has a 50% chance or better to be a franchise?
If no then skip. If yes, sign him without giving up any picks.

 

That type of mentality has a person on some sort of prescription medication for life b/c they allow their doctor to treat the symptom rather than the underlying problem responsible for it.

We fired the underlying problems; unfortunately Henne wasn't afforded a full season to show what he's potentially capable of after displaying obvious improvements with Daboll in the little time he was able to spend with him in the new offense.

 

So you don't see the 68.8 rating in the 4th quarter? That's not good. Also has far more TOs and sacks in the 4th quarter. Is that what you want from your starting QB? I would hope not.

 

We're not talking about just the 4th quarter. We're talking about the 4th quarter being up or down by 7 points or less. You know, the time where Henne consistently loses the game with terrible throws and decisions.

 

The underlying problem is Henne, his limited talent, and his even more limited brain.

 

I am talking about JUST the 4th quarter. Moore sucks. Period. He also had 9 fumbles this year. Henne had 3....his WHOLE career. Moore has a higher turnover rate and blows in the 4th quarter. I am done with you. It's up to Philbin now. I proved my point.

 

you would be an expert on limited brains, good point!

 

Glad you're done. No idea why you would even argue with me about Henne in the first place when he's done nothing but suck his whole career. But I guess it's understandable if you 2 are related.

 

I feel really insulted that a person trying to argue that Henne was a good QB despite losing games, and throwing more TD's than picks is calling my brain limited. Well not really. Like I said, you Henne guys are comic relief for me. Not as much as the John Beck guys, so you have that going for you at least.

 

How many QBs enter the NFL who are NFL ready at it?
That's when the coach has to let his guy take his lumps so he can develop that aspect of his game. Ignoring areas of needed development won't make them go away, and they certainly won't miraculously develop out of the blue. You don't think Brady had areas of needed development coming into the league as a 6th rounder?

Miami might've hedged themselves to Henne but they never took the training wheels off during the meat and potatoes period of the game.... and I'm guessing they were reluctant to do so out of fear, fear that allowing Henne the much-needed experience of making mistakes and learning from them might interfere with their wins & losses and future employment with the organization (which isn't without sense considering one coach had previously been fired for like the 6th time and the other was an unqualified 1st year head coach who probably knew his hiring was more due to ties with Parcells than his resume and worthiness.)

In essence, Sparano and Henning created their very own self fulfilling prophecy. In the end, their scared, make no mistake mentality and fear of losing games ended up causing them to lose games.

 

I agree. Henne was definitely at fault for having areas of his game that needed improvement; it's my surmise that Henning, Sparano, and even Lee played a large role in preventing those areas from improving, and without much help from them, I didn't see how Henne would noticeably improve those areas on his own seeing how competitive the NFL is combined with how much parity exists.

 

It is fair, and it's not a slight veiled insult b/c that's how he genuinely feels and sees the situation as a virtual outsider who probably would rather have Moore than Henne.

More often than not it's the Henne supporters who attempt to enforce their beliefs with substance while a larger percentage of non-supporters back up their beliefs with "Henne sucks", "he has no future", etc etc.

 

No, I don't think either can, but while we and the rest of the NFL (including Indy & NE) are looking for the next Manning & Brady, I'd rather have our offense run by Moore, whom I already know is a good fit for it.

 

The reason I consider them obtuse is they look at the symptoms constantly, never or seldom the cause. Example:
Anti: Henne threw X interceptions
Pro: Yes he did, but here are the circumstances related to it...
Anti: I don't care. That does not matter. He threw them, nothing else matters!!!!!!!!

Which essentially means it's all Henne's fault for any int where the pass is deflected in flight, where the receiver falls down, where the receiver runs the wrong route, where a pass rusher hits his arm as he is releasing the ball, or when he throws a hail Mary on the final play of the half or game...or what have you.

 

Some of the excuses Henne supporters believe in and are using for their argument have been witnessed in QB woes throughout NFL history, but in Henne's case they're "apparently" outlandish and preposterously regarded, as if these circumstances are the unicorns of the NFL.

Henne certainly isn't the first QB capable of having been both damaged & hindered by his coaching staff and/or organization, and he definitely won't be the last. To believe it can happen to others but not Henne is ignorant IMO.

 

I have a hard time believing that the new coaching staff is going to want to spend time grooming and developing Henne after all of his time here. I know what happened with Alex Smith (something very rare) makes people think hey it can happen with Henne, but the reality is that the new coaching staff just isn't going to invest their time and efforts to rebuild Henne here. I would be shocked if we resign him.

 

This is the same lie that plagued this forum over the past summer. Damn it this is one tired argument. I can't wait until he's officially somebody else's backup/project/future franchise QB/ball boy/whatever.

 

And he wouldn't be the first or last to flame out. BTW, still waiting on you to show measurable improvement from any point in college to the pros.

Henne also isn't the first overrated QB to be drafted too high(in hindsight)

 

Define "superstardom"

 

I'd really like to se the proof of this information.

Because if what you're saying is true then that means that the entire team laid down (including Marshall) and cost their coach his job just because they didn't like Henne. If that is true then I will stop pulling for this team. Brandon Marshall and a bunch of other players couldn't get it together at the same time. That's a coaching problem, not a talent problem.

 

Yes, we all realize there are circumstances surrounding every mistake, but when you see the same mistake repeated over and over and over and over, it isn't let's look at all the other circumstances, it is time to look at the person making the mistakes. It is time to see if they truly understand what they are seeing, what type of throw they need to make, where the ball needs placed etc. And if they don't coach them up. And if they STILL aren't getting it, well then it is just time to go your separate ways and wish each other luck

 

Anit: Looking at the circumstances related to it that was a poor throw
Pro: IT IS HENNINGS FAULT! IT WAS A PERFECT PASS! LOOK AT SOMEONE ELSE WHO CAUGHT IT

 

I thought it was pretty obvious from body language that Marshall wasn't very fond of Henne. As for the defense, that's up to whether or not you believe Channing Crowder. He said the defense didn't like Henne because he couldn't get the job done, and I tend to believe him. If I was on that defense gettign stops just so Henne could **** it up with his inability to convert in the redzone, on third downs, and in the 4th quarter, I'd be hating Henne too. Hell I already do, and i'm not even a member of the defense...

 

I guarantee he will be a starter this year.

 

I think all of his 205 posts are about Henne, so my guess is once Henne gets **** canned this offseason, he'll follow him to his next team and never post here again.

 

What scares me about Henne isn't his talent. He HAS the talent to be a very successful QB in this league. I will never argue that. What scares me IS the fact that he is unable to recognize a blitz before a play. He is unable to see that there will be a free rusher off the edge or through the middle. It's almost as if he expects his five lineman to block six or seven defensive players coming after him. This means even further that he isnt identifying matchup problems.

 

Almost twice your age, little guy.

 

We don't need to argue or take personal shots. He likes Henne, that is fine. I did too at one point. See my sig? Sometimes players turn it around sometimes they don't. In the end we are all Dolphin fans and want whats best for our team so lets chill and talk football.

 

Not lately but three total and I'm excited as hell too LOL but not to hijack the thread!

 

I'll pass on that bet...

 

A Henne AND Jacory fan??? I feel your pain brother

 

To be fair when my sig was made, Henne hadn't become the starter yet and Jacory was a soph. I need to take it out lol

Or maybe Henne had JUST become starter not sure.