Chad Henne in the WCO

No, but you could dock Marshall for the 3 or 4 dropped TDs early in the season.

 

Remind me how Moore's first 3 games were.
One thing you could say is---- when the team and play around the QB improved, so did the QB's play.

 

Did Henning make Chad forget that six is more than five? Because I've never seen him make a presnap read on a blitz and know there would be a free rusher. The man has PHYSICAL talent, but he can watch all the film he wants, he does not have the flat out instincts of an NFL QB.

 

I hate Henning as much as the next guy, but it's funny that he supposedly ruined Henne, yet developed Jake Delhomme into a pro bowler.

 

I could also dock Henne for throwing awful passes, which is the main reason for many of those drops.

 

That's 1 game in 2010..... to accompany 5 games that failed to exceed 61.
I'm not sure your point here.

The bottom line is in 3 year's (22 games and 13 starts) in Carolina's old offense, Moore posted a 73.9 QBR with more INTs than TDs.

It coincidentally wasn't until playing in Daboll's offense under Daboll's tutelage that Matt developed into an 87 QBR passer with a respectable TD-INT ratio, so please stop talking like he's the reason we succeeded or "how much better we played b/c we had better QB play". We saw Henne make obvious improvements in a short period under Daboll, so please don't act like a full season with Daboll didn't greatly contribute to Moore's improvement as well.

This just goes to show the extent that coaching and the type of offense a QB is in can affect his success & performance.

 

If Ryan were a francise QB the day he was drafted, Atlanta wouldn't have signed Turner or leaned on or relied upon the ground game for their offensive success.

You clearly did not watch Atlanta play in 09 or 10. I watched every Falcon snap of 2010; when they couldn't run the ball, Ryan struggled, and his placement and accuracy were inconsistent and not yet on the level of "franchise" QB. It was no better than Henne's, and I can say that with an unbiased confidence.

If Ryan were a true franchise QB at that point, the offense wouldn't have relied so much upon the ground game's success on 1st down or the start of the 1st quarter; Atlanta would've instead come out passing more to open the game and instead used the pass on 1st down to set up the run, but that was NOT THE CASE. The run set up the pass in Atlanta, not the other way around. Saying otherwise is pure ignorance.

 

He played that well in 2009. Daboll's offense was not the first time Matt Moore played at that level. You're just looking at what you want to look at.

 

People who wanted to see obvious improvements because they really, really, really wanted to see improvements saw them in Henne under Daboll.

It also shows how better quarterback play helps the offense and coaches.

Matt Moore ended 2009 with three straight games over 93. 123.2, 139.8 and 98.5. That is with a 82.2 game before that.

 

because I understand how delicate and dependent on other variable the QB position is, and I stand up for people who are obviously not put into positions to succeed.

What more do you want than all 3 of his significant coaches being fired?

Head coach--- fired.
Offensive Coordinator (who's never had a young QB develop in one of his offenses)--- forced to leave.
QB coach-- fired.

If Henne were drafted into a great environment with great coaching, a QB-friendly offense built around his strengths, and players drafted to those strengths rather than seeming like an afterthought, and he were still at the level he's at now, then I'd be calling him a bust..... but instead I feel for the guy b/c I honestly believe he got a raw deal in almost every sense possible.

Marshall was brought it, but even he was restricted and completely not maximized by Henning. It's like Henning could give 2 ****s about who Marshall is and what he's capable of and would rather unimaginatively use him as a decoy for other players.

 

Henning liked to assume absolute control of an offense as well as emphasized "precise execution" so that any offensive success could be fully credited to himself rather than his players. That's why our big plays often came via the form of trickery or gimmicks rather than players creating big-play opportunities for themselves. If a play succeeded, it's b/c players executed Henning's play; if they failed, it's because they didnt. That was Henning's mantra. He left very little into the hands of his players.

He basically saw the football field as his very own chess board, and the 11 guys on offense were his pieces. I can't for the life of me fathom how a player can truly succeed and develop into something special with as much control assumed by the puppet master and as little freedom afforded to the pawns.

 

lol. That's a laugh. Tell that to Carolina fans.

Henning developed Delhomme into a regressing passer who was markedly worse at the end of Henning's tenure. Carolina fans still talk about how Henning and his offense destroyed Delhomme.

 

Ok lets play this ridiculous game

Those that set thir minds to hate henne ignored any improvement.

stop with this notion that if you dislike henne your objective, if you do you are homers its false

henne is what he is an avg qb that due to in part his limitations and in part mishandlng by henning and sparano lost the ability to succeed here. say what you will I beliive the lack of trust in bhim was his biggest undoing and the coaches have some blame bbut henne is as well.

but it is funny the mere mention of a kind word about henne makes some froth at the mouth

 

and how did he start and do in 2010, you know--- the year that follows 2009?

 

It is the word, obvious.

 

Three things:

1. Bashing of other members opinions is not allowed.
2. Smartass remarks are frowned upon as well. So if you think youre skirting the TOS just by acting like a confrontational toolbag you are wrong.
3. Why are we even discussing a guy who has likely played his last snap for Miami? Seriously? I like Chad Henne, supported him while he was here but his goose is cooked as far as his dolphin career goes. So before we get all riled up, consider what youre arguing over.

 

henne is gone can we move on, so is moore most likely

adios and good luck

 

Delhomme was a UDFA who never had any tools to work with to begin with. It's quite remarkable that Henning ever got anything out of him. Delhomme threw more TD's than INT's every year under Henning. He was awful after Henning left. Henne never succeeded here because he blows.

 

I wonder why there was a lack of trust in Henne. Oh wait, I actually know the answer to that, he was a turnover machine.

 

Moore doesn't need to be gone. He might have some shortcomings, but he also has some decent strengths (mobility and down field accuracy) that you can win if you play to those strengths and add more players who maximize those strengths.

If Alshon Jeffery slips to our 2nd round pick, he would pair up very well with Moore, Marshall, and Bush IMO.

 

Delhomme progressively threw fewer and fewer TDs with more and more INTs under Henning despite having awesome offensive talent around him. He then looked outstanding after Henning left until he was injured.

So I guess Brady had no tools to work with either since he was a 6th rounder?

 

Yeah, and Chad Henne will right?

I dont care what teams they played, Matt Moore, who is nothing special, was better than Chad Henne by a large margin. Both make good backups.

 

Things that I have learned from this thread:

1. Henne is still better than Sanchez.

 

No no no! What you understand is that Henne is very delicate and in need of almost every single variable that would help him be the best he could be.

Not all Qb's need that kind of pampering and wether or not Dan Henning's offense was best suited for Henne's play, Chad Henne himself, should have improved more than he did in 3 seasons.

It wasn't until 3/4 of the way thru the 2010 season that Henne hit the film room HARD looking to improve because he knew teams were stacking up on his weaknesses. Like throwing false reads at him and much more.

I was looking forward to seeing how Henne MAY have improved thru last season. He looked in better control of the offense at the begining but his injury told me to let him go elsewhere. I'd had enough!

 

Now this I agree with!

I hope the Jetsons sign him though because both are nothing special.

 

And if my aunt had balls shed be my uncle. What's your point?

The year in the system for another QB is bogus. Good coaches call plays to the strength of their personnel not fit a guy in the system. I'll give you that one, because the play calling did Henne zero favors.

Henne being an avid film room guy translated into what? Better performance?
There is more to learning from a peer than just styling your game after them. A vet like Penny is invaluable IMO to shaping his backup if they you know, talk to each other, break down film together etc.....you know teammate type stuff that helps build for the future.

As to a plateau, I submit to you his whole body of work.

http://www.totalfootballstats.com/PlayerQB.asp?id=1203446

It isn't speculation on my part, stats don't lie.



Please show me where any reasonable person could say, "yeah there is some growth here from college to the NFL".

 

Technically that would depend on what state your uncle lives in b/c some don't allow an uncle to uncle union like that.

 

I seem to be one of the few on this board that actually likes Henne. I am a firm believer in coaching a player up. He has the tools, he just needs the right coach to show him how to use them. I hope we keep him. Not only do I hope we keep him, I hope he wins the starting job. I hope we have a 3 way battle with Henne, Moore and Flynn. Forget RG3. Let's get some team continuity. Henne isn't that far from the same situation Alex Smith was in. People boo'd him at practice. That makes me want him to succeed even more.

 

Todd views the big picture. He doesn't look at things as if they were in a fishbowl. It's highly commendable and much better reading than the mindless baseless anti-Henne rants, barbs and remarks that spew forth from the huddle masses.

 

His career completion pct at Michigan was 59.7%. He was never accurate at Michigan? What a ******* joke.

 

"There comes a time when you have to become accountable for your own lack of positive progress".

THATS what i`m saying.

 

If I didnt know any better I`d say you two are related.

 

I'd never say Henne is or was better than Moore. I like Moore quite a lot and have since he was at OSU. But on the other hand, the ignorant baseless insults hurled at Henne around here are largely without merit. Things like he sucks, he is awful, blah blah blah. If someone cannot look at the situation and circumstances surrounding a QB when proffering their opinions, then their opinions are not worth a moment's worth of time.

 

Which QBs though could have done much better in those circumstances Moore was in during 2010? Play with an injured right shoulder and suffered a concussion that he came back from probably too soon.

Same as with Henne, folks need to consider the complete picture with Moore too. Don't just say he had this passer rating that year so was good, and had this other passer rating that other year, so was bad.

 

Hey baldy, don't you know that inaccurate passers always either start at a major program as a freshman or have a chance at starting in a Henning-run offense w/o utterly disastrous consequences?

IMO if Henne were in a Philly style offense, fans wouldn't be criticizing his accuracy; they'd be praising his arm's ability. But b/c he wasn't properly suited for Henning's pinpoint accuracy-required offense, he's suddenly labeled as "inaccurate". Clearly those same people didn't watch Thigpen in that offense. lol. If Henne's inaccurate, then what's that make Tyler? There's a reason very few QBs have either succeeded or showed continued success in a Henning offense, and it surely can't be because every single one of them for the past 20 years have sucked.

 

If you've never seen it, either you haven't watched him much or don't know what you're seeing.

 

Unbelievable. Whats Henne a handicapped 5 year old who needs constant nurturing?? We all know Henning had us scratching our head at times but c`mon ...Henne had plenty of chances to become an efficient "on-field" leader and he failed miserably. If Henne still had great potential and other teams scouts felt he was just mistreated here he`d be a hot commodity and GM`s would be falling over themselves to acquire him one way or another. Hmmm,maybe they know better.

 

By simply saying he had 4 INTs and not even looking at the plays or circumstances surrounding those INT's would indicate to me that since your mind is all made up, you do not want to be confused by any facts. Much easier to just read a stat line than to go back and watch each of those 4 plays.

 

On the INT in the Houston game, his right elbow got hit by Mario Williams just as he was throwing the pass.
The INT in the Browns game came on 4th and 10, and with his receivers covered, including Marshall, whom he was throwing to, he forced the pass anyway and it went high. That one was on him because he could have thrown it lower so Marshall at least had a chance. Even so, Marshall was held on the play coming out of his break and it wasn't called.
The INT in the SD game, he had an unblocked blitzing LB on top of him the instant he reached his set point, and probably should have just ate the ball rather than attempting the pass.
He could have just as easily been 4:2 on TD:Int ratio

 

There comes a time when the coaches and organization have to become accountable for their players lack of positive progress.

(This extends beyond Henne. Pat White? Ted Ginn? Davonne Bess? Brian Hartline? The entire Oline outside of Long? Ronnie Brown? Any #2 TE? How much positive progress did those guys see under Henning & Sparano? )

THATS what I'm saying.


It doesn't look good when 3 of a QB's most influential people (HC, OC, QB coach) are either canned or forced-retired, but hey, that's no excuse, right.
Guys like Archie Manning were really as bad and unsuccessful as their stats and W-L record suggest.