Anyone Still Think Matt Ryan Is the Franchise QB That Got Away?

If a team had even the slightest reservation about the QB being worthy of the #1 pick and accompanying $75 million contract, then you take the guy you have little to no reservations about (remember, Ryan signed for $72 mil compared to Long's $57 mil.)

If we liked Ryan as much as Long but were too scared or cheap to take him, then that's one thing...... but it's another if we didn't feel he was worthy of such a valuable pick & lofty contract.

Because teams with the #1 pick are afforded prior time to negotiate a contract, Ryan would've represented a purchase, and just like most purchases when a monopoly isn't involved, the cost has to at least equal the perceived value of the product for a transaction to occur.
-If your perceived value of Ryan is > than $75 mil, you draft him #1.
-If perceived value = $75 mil, you consider drafting him.
-If perceived value < than $75 mil, you don't draft him.

If the reduced rookie contracts were in effect in 08, we might've been more inclined to take Ryan if we were on the fence about his potential b/c the risk would've been lessened and his perceived value based on his cost would've been much higher, and eating $40 million in guaranteed money doesn't set you back as badly as $20 million does if the QB happens to bust.


Let's also not forget the typically lengthy investment of time it takes for drafted QBs to develop into players capable of carrying a team, something Ryan has yet to prove. Not only were we faced with having to dish out $70+ million for Ryan, but at that kind of investment, we would've been committed to him for 4 to 5 years.

 

I like Matt Moore. I hope he can be.AS of now he can't.

I like Jake Long. As of now, our line isn't elite. It's not even good. I wish we could label it mediocre.

AT least with Matt Ryan they can get to the playoffs. Us with Jake long and ...

Toddphins: So we invest $75 million in a guy if he plays his life out can't guarantee us even a mediocre line because he's just one link in a 5 link chain. That makes ZERO logical sense.

Left tackle continues to be the most overrated position on the field.

 

You dont NEED an elite LT to win a SB. You dont NEED an ELITE DE either. Theres a lot of things you dont need.

With the rule changes you do need an elite QB. Think about it. The last 4 years:
Eli vs Brady
Warner vs Roethlisberger
Brees vs Manning
Rodgers vs Roethlisberger

Wanna bet this year Baltimore with substandard QB play, Denver with substandard QB play, SF with substandard QB arent in the big game? Matt Ryan is in the same class with those guys. Hes simply not good enough. So in the meantime at least whatever QB we have will remain upright.

 

Not by himself. An noe, there isn't an Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, or an Andrew Luck in every draft. There's a reason there haven't been any elite quarterbacks drafted since Aaron Rodgers was drafted in 2005. It's because they do not grow on trees. For every Jay Cutler you mention, I can bring up a Vince Young and Matt Leinart. For every Matthew Stafford, I can bring up Mark Sanchez.

Again, this isn't about taking the best tackle vs the best quarterback. This is about taking the best player period, and Miami did that. You do not pass on the guy who is head and shoulders above every player in that particular draft just because he plays a position that isn't sexy.

 

How do you know Matt Ryan gets to the playoffs? He cant win when his backs dont gain 100 yards. He cant win when he has to shoulder a heavy load offensively. How do you know he could take a team without Atlanta's talent and weapons to the playoffs? Thats purely speculative bro.

 

This is laughable. Matt Moore, as of this time can't be what? A starter? His numbers are identical to Matt Ryan's numbers as a starter through his career, but again, somehow Matt Ryan is good enough even though he continues to show that he isn't good enough. Only in lala land is it smart to draft an average quarterback over an elite left tackle.

 

You just totally agreed with me. Matt Ryan is closer to a franchise QB than Jake Long is ...

 

Lala Land has a rapidly growing population.

 

While ATL keeps going to the playoffs and we had half our fanbase wishing that we lost all of our games this year

Who's in la la land again?

You're arguing with the wrong person btw. I'm a Matt Moore fan. But he isn't elite yet. So you attempted to disagree with me, while agreeing with me.

 

Matt Ryan is also closer to living in Atlanta than Jake Long is...

 

You think it is because of Matt Ryan?

 

Anyone who after todays performance, coupled with Matt Ryans other career performances with other big time games argues that RYAN over LONG was even close to acceptable is not worth discussing with. Show me how Ryan means any more than Long means to our teams success. Just show it. And regular season record doesnt, due to many factors involved. First being stats and road wins, second being Ryan having as many wins as Long int he playoffs. With many more assets on O.

 

KB, TP sums it up above nicely..

So this is the thought process you agree with..

We love Jake Long, think he could be the premiere lineman in the game..

This years best prospect is someone who our scouting dept thinks will NOT be better than the Chad Henne we could get in the late 2nd..

Lets take Matt Ryan..

 

But Matt Ryan is elite and is the reason his team has been succesful?

That's La la Land.

 

Who has a hand in that? You really think Ryan is the one making the team win? Interesting the team started winning when Micheal Turner arrived. Show me a game where the running game FAILED and Matt Ryan won.

 

I know he has a better chance than Jake Long can.

How many games has Jake Long won for us.

I've seen Matt win at least a few games when his backs don't run for 100. As said earlier, he's what, .500? That means he can win. About half the time.

 

Just one? Too easy.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010100305/2010/REG4/49ers@falcons#menu=highlights&tab=recap
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010111100/2010/REG10/ravens@falcons#menu=highlights&tab=recap <--- This one was a beauty. I suggest you watch it again
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010120507/2010/REG13/falcons@buccaneers#menu=highlights&tab=recap
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010121910/2010/REG15/falcons@seahawks#menu=highlights&tab=recap
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011010211/2010/REG17/panthers@falcons#menu=highlights&tab=recap
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011100210/2011/REG4/falcons@seahawks#menu=highlights&tab=recap
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011112703/2011/REG12/vikings@falcons#menu=highlights&tab=recap
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011121106/2011/REG14/falcons@panthers#menu=highlights&tab=recap

There's a few.

Can he carry a team purely on his back? NOt always. Sometimes perhaps.

Can Jake Long carry our team on his back? He can't even carry the left guard position on his back

LT = OVERRATED.

IS Matt Ryan an elite QB? No. But going for the safe pick has gotten us what exactly? Tens of millions on one position of five on a CRAPPY line. A lot of good that did us.

 

I've never said that. Back up your allegation with a quote of mine before accusing me of being in La La Land.

 

If:
Elite QB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elite LT, MLB, SS, DT > elite DB, TE, C, DE, OLB > Good QB > elite RB, K, P

Then:
Elite QB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elite JAKE LONG, MLB, SS, DT > elite DB, TE, C, DE, OLB > MATT RYAN > elite RB, K, P

 

Elite and Franchise QB are pretty much the same terms to me. Obv elite being the best of the franchise qbs.

Matt Ryan isn't close to either of the two.

 

A lot of good Jake Long will do us if his left knee keeps bothering him...

Two knees, lower back, shoulder surgery, biceps (I don't count the biceps against him, that's usually a freak injury).

So will we have this discussion next year if Jake Long has another year like this?

 

A lot of good Matt Ryan would do us scoring 0 pts in the playoffs.

 

I have them on two different levels. And I've never said Ryan was franchise either. Again, where's the quote

Elite is Top of the top. Brady, Peyton Manning, Rodgers and Brees. That's it. For years it was just Brady and Manning.

 

Michael Turner ran for 2.7 ypc. Might as well cut him too.

Again, this is Matt Ryan vs. Jake long.

What exactly has Jake long got us? HOF play for 3 years, and musical chairs for the other 4 positions.

3 more years and 3 more #1 picks on OL then perhaps we'll be good with the OL ...

 

Yes, and you're saying we should of passed on an elite LT for a QB who isn't elite or franchise and just put up his latest face-plant in the play-offs while having one of the most talented and QB-friendly offenses in the league.

La la Land

 

Having a good or average QB is one of the bigger obstacles in getting an elite or franchise qb.

Oh and while Brady & Manning were elite before Brees, Favre was elite.

 

If you don't absolutely LOVE the QB or think he's a great fit, you don't take him just b/c the majority perceives him to either be the draft's #1 QB or represents the best QB on the board at your selection.

That kind of thinking has a team drafting:
JaMarcus Russell over Calvin Johnson, Joe Thomas
Carr ^ Julius Peppers
Leaf ^ Charles Woodson
Harrington ^ Dwight Freeney
Couch ^ Champ Bailey
Akili Smith ^ Torry Holt
Losman ^ Steven Jackson


.... or would've caused teams to instead take:
Vince Young ^ Mario Williams
Leinart ^ Haloti Ngata
Leftwich ^ Andre Johnson
Grossman ^ Polamalu
Cambell ^ DeMarcus Ware
Quinn ^ Revis, Pat Willis, A Peterson, Lawrence Timmons.
Boller ^ Terrell Suggs, Kevin Williams, Jordan Gross, Marcus Truffant.
Cade McNown ^ Chris McAlister.
Gabbert ^ Aldon Smith.

Some of those guys have been integral pieces to their team's success, especially when they fit into the strength of their team like Willis & Smith do with San Fran's #2 ranked scoring defense, Ngata & Suggs with Balt's dominant D, Polamalu & Timmons with Pitt's yearly outstanding D, Revis leading NY's D to 2 straight AFC Champ games.

The Ravens, Steelers, and Niners wouldn't be the teams they are today without those players b/c their defenses wouldn't be the same without them, and those teams wouldn't be the same without their defenses. Parcells was trying to build us up from the inside out to dominate the LOS rather than taking a QB #1 and knowingly subjecting him to a beating and subsequent Post Traumatic Sack Disorder ala Tim Couch or what Sam Bradford is on collision course with since a QB can't pass protect for himself. A $75 mil investment in a QB behind crappy protection is a big risk.

 

Not using top draft picks is a bigger obstacle I might argue.

Bledsoe to Brady (yes I know 6th rounder).
Brees - Rivers.
Favre to Rodgers.
David Woodley to Dan Marino

 

You're not thinking it through. If a "good" QB like Ryan is getting you to only the playoffs, your picks aren't going to be that high and the FO is less likely to think they need to draft a QB in the first place. Like I said, good QB's are one of the bigger obstacles to getting an elite QB.

 

This is Parcells own words.

Doesn't sound like he was unsure of Matt Ryan. Sounds like he is unsure PERIOD of the qb position. You can't defend that. That's drafting scared. How many QBs have Parcells picked high overall?

NOBODY was sure of Rodgers. Hence his tremendous drop. Nobody was sure of Brees, top of the 2nd. Nobody is ever sure about any pick. You can't be sure of andrew luck. There is the very real possibility he comes in and sucks.

But you can be sure if you never invest in a QB you'll never get one.

Parcells - “maybe, we should have,”

Wonder why he said that? Because we still suck. And will continue to suck. Can matt ryan carry our team on his backs? Who knows. FACT: Peyton Manning NEVER carried his team to the superbowl. 5 field goals against baltimore ring a bell? He didn't even play that well in the SB. He chokes in the playoffs. Yet I'd still take him.

It's still a team game. I'll take 4200 yards 29 TDs and low INT's every day over an LT. Why? Because maybe he gets it. People have been known to, you know, get better. Those stats and choke artist is a good place to start from.

Lord save us if Jake Long has the same year he did this year.

 

Here's a sobering fact Fin D. THere are 32 teams going for an elite QB and only 2-4 are going to get it, and there's a good chance they're already in the league hence the other 28, ain't going to get it.

I see Eli Manning. I see a Mark Sanchez almost make the big one twice. Elite QBs are absolutely positively important. I want one. I want one bad. I'm smart enough to know the chances of us getting one are SLIM. Very SLIM. We can pick Left Tackles 10 years in a row because we aren't in position to get an elite QB. Or we can grab that 25% or 33% QB and start building a team.

Ben Roethlisberger ain't elite (2009 and 2007 were real good though) but I'd take him. Eli Manning isn't elite I'd take him too.

I'm tired of the "you have to have an elite QB." Yes it helps tremendously. But when will we come to grips with the fact that we may never get it. And be happy with a damn fine QB.

Remember when we beat TOm Brady 21-0 ...
Come on. Jake Long over Matt Ryan, still a mistake. I'll be the lone wolf on that. I don't care.
I'm saying that even though I agree Matt Ryan isn't elite. I just dont' value the LT position all that highly after seeing countless teams win without even a good LT.

 

It is silly to me that you claim the odds of getting an elite QB are too slim to even consider, but you act as if winning without an elite QB is all common and easy to do.

And both Eli & Ben have played closer to elite than Ryan.

 

Better question....
Anyone still think Mike Mularkey is a great OC that got a bum rap while he was here? LMAO

 

If Eli manning and Rothlesberger were available in that draft I would of taken both over Long..Its about the talent, not playing the percentages or odds.

Berger is elite, and Eli is almost there..hes very good...which is damn good enough..Ryan is not in the same coversation as those two.

 

I agree, Yes they have. And I'd be happy with that. Because I'm realistic. It's easier to find (not easy, but easier) to find Eli or a Jay Cutler than Rodgers (picked lower than both of them). Elite QBs I'd wager have more to do with LUck (no pun intended)

Check Eli when they won superbowl. As he's gotten better his team has done worse.
Check Ben's.
Seattle probably should have won that 2005 SB with Matt Hasselbeck.

The last two years have featured elite QBs winning the bowl but before that you had Tom Brady before he was considered elite or prolific. He was clutch, nobody was arguing he was best of the best 2001-2005 with his 85-92 QBR (he was damn clutch though).

Peyton Manning winning while his defense carried them through the playoffs, against Rex Effing Grossman.

The last two years have seen passing explode though.

I dont' buy that you need an elite QB to win it or else the same 4 teams would win every year.

 

IMO, Long, Pouncey, and a drafted David DeCastro would be the cornerstone of an Oline that could create as much or more offensive damage than the Falcons.

From what I saw, Atlanta's offense saw a drop in production against good defenses after the loss of stud guard, Harvey Dahl, because that group is just not as effective or dominant as a group in his absence.

Do you think Houston's offense and Foster & Tate would do what they do without that tremendous line? The Texans' offense starts with their Oline, just as the 90's Cowboys offensive success was predicated on theirs. Smith was a great back, but he owes an NFL rushing title to those guys up front. One outstanding LT doesn't make you great, but an Oline that serves as one of your team's strengths can do a lot of damage; it can give an average QB a chance to be good, a great QB a chance to be great or elite, and a chance to plug and play average running backs with great success. Long & Carey (at the time) seemed like a good start to that.

Atlanta gets to the playoffs b/c they play well as a team and are coached well. Crediting Ryan for their playoff appearances is inaccurate; I watched every 2010 snap that Ryan took, so I'm fairly confident in my assessment. If Miami played as well and were coached as well as Atlanta, we would've been in the playoffs the past 2 years as well, regardless of Henne or Moore.

How does it make ZERO sense? What makes zero sense is the logic to completely ignore QB protection just b/c most of the "5 link chain" is already broken. That's so backwards it's almost convincing. It's like saying, "Our Oline is so bad at protecting a QB that it's hopeless to even attempt to improve it." lol. If you're saying the links of the chain were that bad, then that's all the more reason to have taken Long, not Ryan.

I'm sure Theismann will have no qualms agreeing with you.

Teams don't prioritize the LT position the way they do b/c of some figment of their imagination. Without blind-side protection, QBs get destroyed or lose their effectiveness. How many examples of this do you need?

 

I would too.

Remember when Eli was benched and booed out of NY? 55, 76, 77 and 74. His QBRs by the time he won a superbowl.

 

I didnt agree with you. I brought up those QB's because an elite QB or even a 2nd tier guys like Eli or Ben is whats going to take. Matt Ryan isnt in the same zip code right now. Matt is closer to a franchise QB but hes not good enough to win with. All he would do is give someone like you years of false hope

Jake has kept QB's vertical so they can win games. Ask Pennington's MVP season. I mean Ware, Mario Williams, Clay Matthews etc have all been not only shut out in the sack column by Jake but unable to affect the game because of Jake. How is that not winning a game for your team? Those are normally players who play a massive role in determining outcomes because of plays they make during the course of a game. Yet Jake Long rendered them useless at various points.

Hmm the same Bill Parcells who WANTED Drew Bledsoe taken first because he was sure of him?