I like Tannehill and Weedon as well and would not complain about either of those guys. In fact I might prefer them over RGIII at the moment after hearing he had to be convinced to return to football rather than going to law school. I also could see one of the teams in need of a QB trading for Flynn which would take them out of the 'draft a QB' sweepstakes. I am also pretty sure that Miami will be willing to trade up for either Luck or Barkley. If Manning comes back I can even see the Colts being convinced to trade down. I have heard that Miami really likes Tannehill. The point is that there many potential scenarios and I see the chances of Miami missing out on all of the QBs as very small.
And here is what is simply glossed over, Manning has been a Elite Qb for a decade, gosh, and he elevates avg players. Now how in the hell does that translate to some wet behind the ears rookie Qb..at all?
Browns want a Qb, they can get one, that extra #1 pick assures they have the firepower to move up, with the Rams offering their pick already, one does not need to be a weatherman to see which way the wind is blowing on this one.
I like Tannehill and Weedon as well and would not complain about either of those guys. In fact I might prefer them over RGIII at the moment after hearing he had to be convinced to return to football rather than going to law school. I also could see one of the teams in need of a QB trading for Flynn which would take them out of the 'draft a QB' sweepstakes. I am also pretty sure that Miami will be willing to trade up for either Luck or Barkley. If Manning comes back I can even see the Colts being convinced to trade down. I have heard that Miami really likes Tannehill. The point is that there many potential scenarios and I see the chances of Miami missing out on all of the QBs as very small.
Merely pointing out that a QB can raise the level of other's play, not simply just the other way around.
Not at first, and consider Manning had Edge, they added Wayne and Clark, and Harrison, as a rook he had Faulk. And even then, it took him time to be Elite, even with that much talent around him.
It's only an illusion if you can't tell the difference between a QB who is displaying elite individual skills and one who just fits in a system. The Bradys, Mannings and Marino absolutely lift their team mates. They are franchise QBs. Generally, the guys with that level of potential go in the first round. You don't pass up the opportunity to get one of those guys. This draft in particular has a plethora of guys with elite potential. It would be foolish to pass on the opportunity. Not that it hasn't happened before. In the 1983 draft (the last one I believe had this level of QB talent), the Bengals needed a QB, but took the very highly thought of Dave Remington in the 1st instead of Marino. They then continued to use your logic and took Jeff Christensen in about the 5th round.
Who cares if it takes time? I'd prefer to have the guy who can eventually lift his team's play over the guy who never will.
Hmm, tossing the ball to all decade type players certainly does make that Qb exhibit "elite skills". If one wishes to see how a Qb should be developed, look at Matt Ryan and the Atlanta approach, run heavy, add Gonzo, add Jones, keep the OL intact and the same OC, Ryan has not taken that leap yet, but he certainly has won games and gotten lots of OJT, if anyone of the young Qb's is likely to make that jump, it is him.
He did not have to be convinced to return to football rather than going to law school, he had to be convinced to not do both at the same time.
Odd, the "never will" guy looks like the "it will take time" guy. This is a results biz Rafi, the worst mistake a Franchise can make is to marry a young Qb who does not pan out.
I'm going by Ozzy's post in the Club. If you have some facts that indicate his information is wrong, feel free to share. I actually don't think it will be an issue. I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up staying in school. I put it at 50/50. That would allow him to pursue his olympic dreams and start law school. He'll reason that the pros will still be there if he wants plan B.
Not as much as it used to be with the rookie salaries much more manageable. Now that's a two or three year mistake at most. It's a far worse mistake to pay the far more exorbitant salary to a never will be vet. That salary isn't limited by the rookie cap and cripples you for longer. It's also a far worse mistake to never try and get the franchise guy at all and be mired in mediocrity for the last 20 years. That's a mistake you pay for even longer.
Problem is, I see Henne as a good example of what happens when that fails, 3 yrs of not being competitive, now the Staff will have to be turned over and reset, I'd much prefer looking at Qb's like buying a used car, let some other franchise take the depreciation.
Do you also see that we haven't drafted a QB in the first round in something like 30 years. We haven't been a perennial SB contender since Marino retired. We had a few odd years were we were a playoff contender, but that's it. I would rather risk 3 years of not being competitive rather than continue the current stretch of 15 years or so since we've been a SB contender.
http://www.thephins.com/forums/show...read&p=1651337&viewfull=1#post1651337 edit: It is post 38. Sorry, did not link how I intended. Not as easy on this tablet. edit2: I cannot find any recent (within the past week) posts by Ozzy in the club that discuss RG3.
06 we were thought of a SB contender with C-Pepe at Qb. Shall we list the franchises who have used a #1 pick on a Qb in that time span who never made a Conference Championship? It's a long list.
Unlike you, I don't see Tannehill or Weeden being a franchise type QB at the next level. I have stated on this forum several times that I think both these players will eventually end up being career backups in the NFL. As far as one of the teams ahead of the Dolphins in the draft trading their pick for Flynn, they would be crazy to do that. I think Flynn is going to end up being a complete bust as a starting QB in the NFL. He is a decent backup for the Packers, who are loaded with offensive talent. I just don't see him being the type of talent at the QB position who is worth a first round pick, especially a high first round pick. I think a fifth or sixth round pick is about all Flynn is worth. I would pick Griffen over any other the QB's in the draft, except for Luck. If Griffen comes out instead of remaining for his senior season at Baylor, that should alleviate any fear by the NFL teams that he is more interested in attending law school, than playing in the NFL. Hopefully the teams drafting before the Dolphins will have the same concern you have and they don't draft him. At this point that is probably the only chance the Dolphins have of getting Griffen in the draft.
Trust me, I completely believe you when you say you can't see the between never will guy and the it will take time guy. I also completely believe you when you say you don't know what a franchise QB is.
How about the list of teams that did draft a first QB and did become a perennial contender? It is simply a fact that the QBs taken in the first round are the ones that are considered the best chance to become franchise QBs. It makes no sense to use a strategy the gives you far lower odds of succeeding, unless you just don't believe that a team that wants to succeed should prioritize finding a franchise QB.
I wouldn't trade a first for Flynn either, but that has nothing to do with whether it will happen. KC traded for Kolb last year. I wouldn't call that smart either. I don't have much confidence that RG will even come out this year 50/50 IMO. Once he does, this year or maybe after an Olympic run, I don't have much faith that he'll keep playing past that first contract or injury.
Those 2 teams stepped it up which would have/should have helped our cause....but then again, our cause seems to be a different issue LOL! And CLE is facing AZ, with PHI facing NYJ in the late games....all in all not bad if those pull off Wins too...
So far based on 1pm games gone final... 1. IND 2. MIN 3. STL 4. JAC 5. TB 6 will be dependent on if CLE wins in the 4pm games. then 7+ will depend on all the 5 win teams.
too hard to say since not all underclass have officially declared and its just too hard to speculate till we know exactly our draft position including TRADE UP assets (and the more teams tied with us, the worse our 2nd round pick could be to use in a package). All in all its the same usual suspects following Luck....with alphabetical listing of Barkley, Griffin, Tannehill, Weeden, all potentially there if B & G declare.
Is there a valid chance that Minnesota finally ends up with the #1 pick? And what would they do with it? I mean, they are so bad and Indy can win!
that my friend would be karma for indy. Min or STL would probably trade the pick, but wouldn't demand as much as the colts plan to.
Sure, technically INDY is 1 win, and both MIN and STL are 2 wins all with 2 games remaining and thus could allow for a change in draft position...
Probably. But would they give up on Ponder so soon? I'd understand if the Jags would do it with Gabbert, but MIN with Ponder? Not so sure. On the other hand, it's Andrew Luck, so...maybe they would.
That's the thing that people keep ignoring. Any of these teams, even teams that need QBs, could trade down. It could be b/c they believe in the guy they have or in a guy they could get later. It could be that they like a FA or trade QB. Or they might just feel there's value in getting a ton of picks. It doesn't matter what the reason is. It doesn't even matter if others might consider it a stupid move. The point is that anybody who has paid attention to the NFL for at least a few years knows that teams will make all sorts of moves.
