I am about to convince u to keep Tony Sparano

Ironic that Padre is citing the growth of the quarterback that you are making my argument "invalid" with. Ain't it though?

 

And? I care not a whit about methods, I care about results.

 

What you mean you can't see those empty seats all the way up in the upper bowl? Or the ones down at club level, in that pic?

It's those friggin' Hispanics man. I tell ya if only they were the Orlando Seawolves...

 

Padre..... I'm actually laughing as I type this. You trying to make an argument for two more years of Henne?

 

Not so, MMoore and the O went 8 of 11 in the RZ prior to the Dallas gm, then went 3 of 4 vs the Raiders, Henne never led the offense to that sort of performance when he was the guy, the closest would have been 09 when the Wildcat was money in the RZ.

When he was expected to toss the ball into the EZ, he just could not deliver.

 

Lord no, just pointing out why Sparano was not offbase in giving Henne the reigns this season, we've seen 3 yrs of Henne, we know pretty much what he has been for us, a decent Qb who can't finish drives with TD's.

I've seen enough of his game to move on from him, Smith was a #1 overall whom Harbaugh decided he wanted to have back.

 

The more I watch this team and the way they have performed over the last 5 weeks, the more I am convinced that the problem with this team was the players themselves and the lack of conditioning in the offseason. The lockout appears to have hurt this team more than any other. When you watch Vontae coming in clearly out of shape and being unable to get back in the lineup for nearly 2 months, then you hear that Dansby was 28 POUNDS overweight you have to wonder how many of these other guys sat around on their butts in the offseason instead of even trying to be in some kind of shape.

Sparano changing his methods has obviously helped as well as the emergence of Matt Moore's solid play at QB, but I really believe that right now that the players themselves are in far better shape now than they were going in and that has been the largest part of the recent success. If this team goes 3-1 or even 4-0 the rest of the way while continuing to play at the level they have been I won't be able to support firing Sparano at the end of the year.

 

look I get Henne did not show himself well within his time frame and while some may not been all his fault, he didnt overcome those obstacles and that is what great qbs do, they perform in the face of adversity. But I also like how he could have folded and he didnt, he worked hard, regained his status as leader but in the end he didnt get it done

Moore is playing better right now, but he hasnt shown that he is the long term answer either. he has shown that he could be a good short term starter mentor to a drafted qb.

I just get sick of the posts professing how smart someone thinks they are, the "see I was right" well you want a cookie? Sit by the phone and wait for that call, I dont suggest holding your breath while you wait

Or ignore that not only does a young qb have to gel, a new offense has to gel with a new configured oline in a new system and part of that success is a result of that gelling. Level of competition is huge as well. Henne played 1 weak tea in 3 and that weak team has a good pass defense. He lit up Pats defense, made mistakes vs houston but made throws and had 2 tds dropped that could have changed that game and has us ahead with less than a min vs clev so we didnt get blown out vs anyone. BUT he didnt get us over that hump vs a couple good teams.

Moore stared out 0-3 1/2 same as henne, then we started gelling and teh comp got weaker and while Moore played well no doubt, but he is now the second coming and all teh ills were at the feet of henne. its laughable to me. No objectivity.

but I guess gramar and spelling are the mark of whether points are right and wrong. Who knew? but when that is all you got, go with it I guess.

See here is one fact, Henne is gone and done, but seems to still have to be debated, why? Why is it Moore plays well and all of a sudden we have to debate henne? redundant and serves no pupose other than to try to pat oneself on the back

 

Why is no one mentioning the offensive line? Did you see Pouncey pull left and seal the end for Thomas? Did you see that misdirection play where everyone drove left and Reggie took it right? Did you see the student body right where we old-timers remembered that the "Jet sweep" used to be called the " Dolphin sweep?" Did you see the size of the hole at the one where Reggie just walked into the end zone? Did you see all those plays where Moore was standing in the pocket and it got to six or seven Mississippi before he threw the ball?

Good offensive line play enables good quarterback play. There is now push, complexity and quickness. What has happened here is the offensive line jelled and everybody is executing. Moore is a good QB. Taking nothing away from him. But if you watched Sparano's post-game speech, he is not an orator or amateur psychologist. He had the team repeating simple points that he had obviously hammered into them before, the operative word being "attack," and they seemed to have bought it completely. If he did this to the line and to the defense, simply, nothing fancy, he's a good coach because he can motivate the team to execute, no matter how long it took. If he beats the Eagles, the Jets and Bills and keeps it close with the Pats, he stays.

 

Just imagine if the players learn from their mistake. Maybe next year they come to camp in shape, and maybe they make the playoffs.

 

My eyes are bleeding.

 

I think that's what I just said.

 

Just when I was starting to miss the Henne/Sanchez debates! Now we have Sanchez/Moore

 

Nobody is actually debating the Henne topic except you. This topic is about Sparano's future with the Dolphins. I am ONE fan that gave ONE opinion as to why he should be fired. YOU are the person debating Henne. THAT is what is so disgusting in your response. YOU plead not to debate Henne, yet you want to debate all things Henne. So I will spell it out for you AGAIN.

This fan (the one with the South Carolina flag flying) thinks that Sparano married himself to Chad Henne when he made no other move. Chad Henne failed. Tony Sparano failed.

Now you can get over yourself because your argument to shut people up is weak. Nobody in this thread has said, "See, I told you so." I personally reserved hope for Chad Henne's success every year because I knew what failure meant for this team. I said so in numerous posts. But I never closed my eyes during his failure as many have done around here. THAT is the difference and that's probably why you feel you have to debate all things Henne whenever the name is mentioned. Guess what? He was here. The history is there. His name will be mentioned again and again. Just like Gus Frerotte or Jay Fiedler or Brian Mitchell. So if you are touchy about the topic, I suggest YOU not post about the topic but since you are so desirous to discuss the topic I will tell YOU this:

Chad Henne has done nothing in terms of success within this organization. That's the fact. It was the fact two years ago. It was the fact last year. It's the fact this year.

 

How exactly did Sparano marry himself to Henne? Did he not try to bench him at the first opportunity? I would say he married himself to Pennington more than he married himself to Henne.

 

the coach did not draft the QB..

 

I am still not convinced......

 

I'll take yours first DJ since the answer is a question. Did the coach get himself more cash? Did he get his son a job? Did he get a new OC? Have you ever heard of Tony Sparano NOT getting something he wanted? Complacency is a problem and I take issue with it.

 

imo, Henne failed in the intangible dept..his game and responsibilities were executed effectively enough to do his part, and he was improving as a QB..but having the other things like what a Pennington brings to the table, he fell short I think.

Its why I'am taking the intangible part of the game very serious this offseason in the college prospects.

 

Stringer...... I'll take this opportunity to ask if you remember the fan conversations about Wannstedt and Fiedler? and Spielman?

 

I'm not sure how relevant that is to what we're debating.

There are two valid criticisms that can be applied to Sparano's handling of the QB position.

The first would be relying on Pennington to stay healthy. It was obvious that they gave Henne every shot to make it in 09, and then decided that Henne wasn't good enough. They were banking on the fact that they could hang around with Henne, and if he didn't give them what they wanted, they had Pennington waiting in the wings for a team that was still very much in the playoff hunt.

The second criticism would be not having an open competition in training camp this season. Now its certainly fair, because obviously the better QB was on the bench to start the year. But practically speaking, having an open QB competition in such a condensed time, with a newly acquired QB was not feasible. What were Sparano and Daboll supposed to go off of, Moore's play in Carolina???

 

You skipped 2010. Why?

 

if this team wins out, you will not renew your season tickets?, when the whole team may well be imploring upstairs and their fans to reconsider their opinion?

wow..That sucks man... some in this fanbase will never learn..

 

Meant to say 2010, when Sparano benched Henne, instead of 09:

 

thats not bad at all man, i think whats cool about thinking is that if we do win out, the fans that did go to those games will have a different appreciation of the team, and maybe help longterm to establish new ones with what they saw..Thats if they win out.

 

And by this argument are you ready to move on from Marshall as well?

From what I saw this year Henne was the best player on the field when he was out there. Had BM made the end zone catches his QB rating would have been in the mid-90s and Miami would have likely won a couple of games. And by no means am I saying Henne is an elite QB. I have no problem with an upgrade at the QB position if one is out there. Considering Henne had to learn and implement a new offense himself in the off season due to the lockout and Miami had 5 new starters out of the 11 position on offense I thought he did terrific. Where I saw the failure for Miami to score was Marshall kept getting targeted in the end zone and failed to deliver time and time again...not just drops but inability to establish position, one resulting in a 100 yard pick-6 for Revis that completely changed the complexion of that game.

Miami's red zone success changed not with necessarily Moore at QB (saw him miss a wide-open Bess on one play), but by stop calling BM's number on the majority of the plays...and start calling play-action to TE, roll out and throw against the grain, and the running game finally established itself. Early in the year when Miami attempted to run there was a defensive party in the backfield.

I have appreciated reading some of your posts taking a sensible approach to the draft next season by adding play-makers if they offer the most value. I think most football are a little naive thinking the solution is to simply spend the 1st round pick on a QB.

 

Learn what? That they have to shell out a boatload of money for something they really don't want to see? He's a fan, not an indentured servant; if he doesn't want to pay for a particular product, that's not only perfectly within his rights, it's also something that should be respected instead of being frowned upon from a supposedly high horse.

 

No one is going to convince me that keeping Sparano is the right move.
No one.

Certainly not because of the teams hot streak either.
Alot of teams have hot streaks and ride waves to some short term success.
Being a talented coach or player is all about consistency.
Finding how to win with the players you have by game planning to those strenghts and weaknesses.
He has not been able to do this.

This whole thing about Henne holding Sparano back and if it wasn't for Henne Sparano would have been a winner is absurd to me.
In fact I'd offer that the biggest change in this offense is the addition of Daboll and it has nothing at all to do with Sparano or Henne. Daboll is working magic with an OL that has played like crap and a backfield that has had to rely on a speed back exclusively.

You guys want to sing the praises of Daboll I"m all for it.
Dismissing Sparano at the end of the year however needs to be done.

PS.

For those of you who love Moore..... congrats.
He'll be around for a long time probably.
If we keep torching teams we'll be right out of the mix for any top QB.
It's just like our organization to lose enough games in a row for a season not to matter and then turn it on just in time to not be in position to improve the team. Classic.

 

Here is the relevancy to the debate. It's four years later. Make it 5 going into the topic discussion (next year).

Year 4 in the Wannstedt era we are 10-6 and miss the playoffs. Everyone wants Wannstedt fired. By this time there is a freaking two year old website firedavewannstedt.com. Of course, that was something new back then. The issue? Quarterback.

There was never a more polarizing figure in Dolphins sport than Jay Fiedler. Many never wanted him. Most gave him a chance. But by the end of 2003 (Wannstedt/Fiedler 4th year) nobody wanted him. I couldn't tell you who was despised more - Fiedler or Wannstedt. But I can tell you this - nobody wanted Fiedler as the starting QB in 2004. So what happens? Wannstedt is stripped of personell duties. Spielman gives up a 2nd round draft pick for AJ Feely. And on opening day 2004, the opening day starter was none other than Jay Fiedler.

The goal in 2004? Get a new quarterback. What did the same people do? Started the same quarterback.

 

I apologize if it was interpreted wrong, but its not about me on my horse, its about what hurts the team {on many levels} that you love and gives you pleasure watching and rooting..I think if you wouldn't be able to find a different perspective if this team wins out, and lobbies for their coach to stay, then I don't understand that type of fan..

 

Except Sparano doesn't have personnel power. And he's actively tried to replace Henne when he had a legitimate option. For all practical purposes, he had no other reasonable options other than playing Chad Henne.

 

Sparano was chompin at the bit to get Pennington on the field..Thats why some feel that the benching was unjust, it was, but it was for a very good reaSon..chad pennington..This team loves to be lead by a QB.

 

The fundamental difference being that Jay Fiedler was a personal favorite of Dave Wannstedt's. Wannstedt acquired him. Wannstedt was reluctant to bench him, and when he did, he couldn't wait for an excuse to start him again. Wannstedt refused to address the position in the draft because he was so comfortable with Jay Fiedler. So when Spielman acquired Jay Feeley, Wannstedt stuck to what he was comfortable with.

Tony Sparano never acquired Chad Henne. He wasn't reluctant to bench him, either. In fact, when he did bench him in 2010, the majority of the fan base was pretty outraged because they felt it was much, much too soon. Tony Sparano has also never been in a position to get whatever QB the heck he pleases. The truth of the matter is that we have absolutely no clue whatsoever what Tony Sparano would do at the QB position in 2012, even if he had the authority to do something in the first place.

 

Wait a minute......

2008 we have the wildcat because we can't move the ball through the air or ground.

Pennington starts 0-3 in 2009, Henne comes in.

Henne starts in 2010, Pennington goes down to injury in like week 10 or so when Henne has failed.

Sparano is practically fired and re-hired.

Henne starts in 2011 with Matt Moore as backup.

Sparano gets a pass for that? I mean damn! We couldn't move the ball with the QBs we had in 2008.

 

And when they did start AJ Feeley he basically did nothing but show why they started Fiedler in the first place. I'm no fan of Wannstadt, but perhaps he actually knew something.

 

No, I don't think you are going to convince me.

 

Wow, just ****ing wow. I just don't think some people will ever get it.

 

BB

I can tell you who should be despised more.
Wanny.
He should go down as one of the most despised villians in this franchises history.
He is the one that thought Jay Fiedler was a top QB.
Probably the only personnel guy in the entire NFL that did.
Which was proven by the chorus of crickets that awaited Jay and his agent during his FA after leaving the Phins.
No one wanted anything to do with him. Nothing can be more telling than that.
It's not Jay's fault he was miscast.

Wanny's term with the Dolphins was a plague.
It completely destroyed the franchise and left the team in a shortage of young talent we've yet to really over come.

 

Good argument but you will have to forgive me for I smell a disaster in 2012 with Jim Bates....uh....I mean.......Mike Nolan waiting to come down to the sideline if Sparano remains.

 

Pretty much, other than the missing part where Sparano divorces himself from Chad Henne in 2010. Its clear the Sparano was in no way married to Chad Henne, and really kept playing him because of the lack of a viable alternative.

But if you want to fire Sparano because he decided not to start Matt Moore (who had a 55 QBR in 2010) over Chad Henne, when Moore arrived in the middle of TC, then by all means you're entitled to do that.