Tebow leads Broncos over Raiders

I don't know if his issues are fixable, I think he will always be a Qb that needs to set up his passing game with his running ability, can you really see this being a Superbowl winning formula? I mean its fun to watch but honestly are John Fox and Elway going to go all in this offseason? I think it means switching everything in the organization, drafting a Qb that has a similar style to back him up, building a power Oline, etc gearing everything towards a power running game and a Qb that runs first, do you see this happening? I think they will let him play out the season then use the losing record as an excuse to draft his replacement early and get rid of him, I think they see this as a lost season and see nothing to lose in going with Tebow but as a long term plan? I don't see Elway and Fox hitching their careers to Tebow.

 

How feasible would it be for a quarterback like a Jacory Harris, Tyrod Taylor, or a Jordan Jefferson to get his own offense at the NFL level. A change-up zone read offense that would use these guys as change of pace quarterbacks? Would the amount of time implementing it be less than the amount of time teams would have to spend to stop it? If Tebow can rip apart Oakland's D for that kind of yardage, it's worth spending a minimal investment on these types of players.

 

Oh it's possible

 

Fitting the QB to the system is incredibly important. People tend to just want to say a player sucks, but it's rarely that simple. Kurt Warner in NY is a back-up level QB. Kurt Warner in St. Louis or Arizona is a HOF caliber player. That's the difference between a good fit and a bad fit. Tebow enters the SEC and people are saying he can't pass well enough to even be a starter. But he ends up in a good system fit and the discussion is about whether or not he's the greatest college player ever.

 

The most interesting thing to me about the Broncos isn't Tebow, but that Willis McGahee looks really impressive. I wish the Dolphins signed him. I'd like to see winner-guy do anything without McGahee breaking long runs.

 

I don't know the hunt for the playoffs is a bit of a stretch until you're at .500. KC stinks, Denver should beat them IMO. I don't think anyone really considers Denver a real threat to the AFC crown, they aren't beating anyone with a good defense.

 

I didn't realize that going into this weekend they were one game out of being tied for the division. I would say they odds on favorite would be the Raiders and as you said that's the team they just beat. I don't see how anybody can pretend that being one game out midway through the season is anything but "in the playoff hunt". I'm really interested to see how Denver plays the rest of this season. I have thought for years that the NFL offense would move closer to what you currently see in college. I would love to see Denver make a run with a version of the Gator's offense. It would be all the more impressive b/c that Denver team is not particularly talented. It would also be fun to see all the Tebow critics continue to ignore the wins and try and pretend that Tebow isn't part of that.

 

But really do you see them even giving the Ravens, Jest, Pats or Steelers a run for their money? They are in a division with loser teams so they have a shot but they are not going to go to Baltimore or Pittsburgh and win a playoff game, I mean come on. Something about that Detroit game just makes me think this Denver team is a joke.

 

That's irrelevant. Being in the playoff hunt is being in the hunt to make the playoffs, which they clearly are. Nobody is arguing that they're a SB contender or a team that is going to make a deep playoff run. They're simply not a very talented team. That's what makes it all the more amazing that Tebow can take over the same team Orton was leading, minus their best WR and lead them to two wins in three games.

 

Well technically anyone mathematically alive is in the hunt but its a stretch to put Denver in the playoff hunt, especially considering how poorly they've played all year, including the games Tebow started. It really isn't amazing how he's played, he's been incredibly bad for a large portion of his 3 games and he had a ton of help from his untalented team against Oakland.

 

It's much closer than being mathematically alive. For all I know, Miami might be mathematically alive. Denver is one game away from a tie for the division lead. If any other team was one game away from the division lead, you'd have no trouble admitting they were in the playoff hunt. And it is amazing that a team as bad as Denver has won 2 out of 3 since Tebow started. He's put up poor stats for large portions of three games, but it's about more than stats. There's a lot of things he does that helps the team win that doesn't show up on the stat sheet.

 

Yeah but a team one game out at this point is generally above .500 and playing good football, Denver is not. Its not really amazing that they won 2 of 3, they played us in one and got a Raiders team with rusty Palmer (he looked much better against San Diego) and no McFadden, hey they won but it was ugly and kind of lucky to be honest. I don't give Denver much of a shot because they aren't playing well, their team looks awful. Having a stretch against the 2nd worst team in football and a battered Raiders team isn't really amazing, its just a nice easy stretch that they should have won with Orton or Tebow. Lets not overlook the Detroit game either, this game gets conveinently overlooked, they were beaten like a college team trying to play a pro team it made me cringe to watch the highlights. And Detroit is not an NFL powerhouse, they are a middle of the road playoff caliber team and they were literally toying with Tebow. We'll see in the next few weeks which Tebow is the real Tebow, I think its the one that played against Detroit, I think any good defense will make him look awful and win easily.

 

It is a fact that they are in the playoff hunt, you just don't think they are a good enough team to remain in the hunt. All you're saying is that you don't believe in them. That's fine and I and most would agree that they are a bad team and unlikely to make the playoffs, but they are currently in the playoff hunt. No matter how little you or anybody else believes in them is irrelevant. I am shocked that they are even in the hunt. I certainly had them as nowhere close to that at the halfway point of the season. But my lack of belief in them making the playoffs will not make me pretend that they are not currently one game away from a tie for the division lead.

 

2 completions and 69 yards passing. This guy's just a winner man. This will clearly get it done against teams not named the Chiefs or Dolphins. Watch out Steelers, watch out Ravens. Your defense is no match for this awesomeness.

 

Hear, hear. I'm totally in agreement here. The good teams in the league need to fear Tim Tebow and all of the 2 completions he brings during the course of a 60 minute football game. This guy is pure awesome. I'm a believer.

 

2 completions? Yeah that's gonna win you loads of games in the NFL.

 

...at least 1

 

Hey I'll give credit where credit is due, they have somehow won 3 of 4. The teams they beat weren't great and they are winning about as ugly as ugly gets but hey they are winning. I don't see this type of gameplan being a long term success but its been good for a few weeks. As a fan I like seeing different types of offenses, I loved the wildcat but these things don't seem to have any long term success so we'll have to see if Tebow can buck that trend. I still see Denver drafting a Qb very early and moving in a different long term direction if they can't let Tebow throw more than 10 times a game.

 

I wonder what odds you would have gotten if you had bet that after Denver benched Orton, traded Lloyd and started Tebow they would win 3 of the next 4 games?

 

Tim Tebow is showing us how real QBs play.... in 1920.

 

People make the mistake of thinking that "passing league" means passing often. It doesn't, the key to winning is passing more efficiently than your opponents. Denver did that today. Miami did that back in '72 when they were being perfect.

And I agree that the "experts" get too caught up in mechanics and how he looks on timing plays. There is value in the other things Tebow does and those other things are a big part of the reason Denver started winning.

 

I think you have to give most of the credit to John Fox, he has gotten Denver's defense turned around and he and his staff have put together an offense that hides Tebow's inability to pass consistently. I don't see this working long term because eventually teams will get the lead and force Denver to pass but if they can keep playing defense this way and not turn the ball over they will win some games. I don't see Denver making the playoffs, I think a combination of horrible teams on the schedule and an offense that no one has prepared for have given them the element of surprise but its a lot to ask that the offense have no turnovers, ever, and for the other team to never get the lead. I really think oddly enough that there is some truth to the haters and the guys with a man crush on Tebow, he is awful as a passer unless its a bomb to a wide open receiver, his mechanics and footwork are terrible, but on the other hand he does find a way to make plays somehow and he could always run. I think in the long term he's better off moving to another position, I just can't see a team developing its entire draft strategy and offense around him which would require drafting a similar player to back him up, etc.

 

Well before the draft, the "experts", at least most that I read, had him going around round 3 or 4, maybe round 2 so its not like the "experts" hated him as a prospect. Most of them said he was a project as a Qb and he clearly is. Everyone believed he could run in the NFL and that he had the required intangibles so I don't really see that the "experts" were wrong. Most had him pegged as a horrible passer with terrible mechanics, this is still true, but they thought he had potential long term so honestly I think most of them had him rated pretty much right where he is. Tebow has to improve as a passer to stay in the NFL as a Qb, Denver is not winning a title with an option offense, its a quick fix to help hide Tebow's inability to throw but longterm Tebow has to improve his accuracy, timing, footwork, mechanics, etc to stay a starter in the NFL. I think the "experts" pretty much hit the nail on the head with him.

 

I believe the next game is against the Jest for Denver, should be interesting. Tebow could go a long way towards silencing his critics with a win against the Jest defense.

 

The experts generally didn't believe he could win. If you polled the experts before the season or when Tebow was named the starter you wouldn't have found anyone who would have said they'd win 3 of the next 4. The soft schedule argument wouldn't have been made mostly b/c other than Miami, those teams are now considered poor b/c they lost to Denver. So the experts clearly were wrong.

And nobody is saying that Tebow doesn't have to improve as a passer. The debate has always been whether he can improve and whether you can win in the interim with his skills as they are now. The second part of that has been proven as Denver is winning. The experts generally didn't think he would ever be a good enough passer. That part is still debatable.

 

Miami did it in 1972 because it the game was more focused on running in 1972.

2 of 8 passing isnt efficient. If Tebow was an efficient passer his coaches would put alot more trust in him and allow him to pass more.

 

Efficiency is defined by how successful you are on a per pass basis. On a per pass basis, Denver was more efficient than KC. In '72, Miami was also incredibly efficient passing. If you look at the last 60 years or so every single champion was more efficient passing than their opponents during the regular season except for two and those two squeaked into the post-season and then went on runs where they were more efficient passers than their opponents. Along with having fewer turnovers (which is in part a subset of efficiency), it is the only consistent stat that all champions share for the last six decades that I have ever found. It is irrelevant whether you run more or pass more, whether you pass a lot or a little. But when you do you better be more efficient than your opponents. People are all confused about how Denver could win. I'm saying they simply did what all champions have done for the last 60 years or so.

 

Well I don't think there was any reason to think Denver would win 3 of 4 because their entire team was playing like crap. Now all of the sudden their defense is holding teams, their running backs are getting it done and the offense is covering up Tebow's horrible passing. Honestly most people didn't think it would happen because its not a winning formula in the NFL, I think the strength of schedule is the biggest reason, I don't get how you throw that out, the teams they've played have been amongst the league's worst teams easily except Oakland and they wouldn't beat Oakland with Palmer playing well or McFadden in there.

 

The winning formula has always been passing more efficiently than your opponents. It's just that most people don't realize it and think you have to pass a ton. As for the schedule, Oakland, KC and Detroit were all considered average to good teams back then. Now that they lost to Denver people are saying they're worse. And while those things are happening (defense and running) Tebow is part of that. The zone read with a running QB is making easier to run. And the heavy run emphasis is running clock and letting the D rest. Then Tebow has done enough passing to get them some points. Tebow is without a doubt the biggest factor in their wins. You leave Orton in there and the SOS wouldn't have meant jack.