We all think we know that Saban picked Culpepper over Brees based on Dr's recommendations. But Ole Hank Goldberg has a new Saturday show on radio 640, and he brought up this issue today. He said something that I had never heard before: Hank said that Wayne overruled Saban and insisted he listen to the Drs. and not go for Brees. Hank says this decision by Wayne was a major factor in the downfall of the Fins (not news), and was also one of the main reasons Saban left (news). Interesting.
Lets be real here. Brees would be out of the league right now if he came here. It's just the way it is.
Nope, we've heard this one before. Saban wanted Brees badly. Very very badly. It was obvious he did not want Culpepper and even asked later he waffles on telling the whole story.
We knew it was Wayne overruling Saban? I never heard that before. I had heard Saban wanted Brees but deferred to the Drs.....
If Wayne did step in, I have to say that Saban leaving is more understandable. I always thought he felt he was in over his head in the NFL, but having an owner step in and prevent you from getting the QB you wanted? Ugh. Yeah, he lied, but it's not so black-and-white now. Looks like Wayne taught Ross how to act as an owner too (based on the Sparano/Harbaugh thing). Maybe Wayne can step in early next year and insist that Henne be kept and that #1 pick be spent on a RT?
Nick Saban was never in over his head in the NFL. That man is one of the two best football coaches that is coaching today. The other is Bill Belichick, and I personaly feel that Nick can coach at any level. The only two issues Nick had with the NFL were control and personnel. Wayne over ruling him probably played a role in it, but I think Nick ultimately found out that he cannot control players at the NFL the way he does in college. Second, Nick was never able to find a personnel guy he trusted enough to give him the reigns to scout without him looking over his shoulder.
If that wasn't coming from Hank, I'd find it hard to believe. But since it is, its probably true. Wayne would be the one writing a big check in that situation, so if a doctor told him the shoulder was no good, he just might have pulled the plug.
being able to control players and adapt is part of what makes a great coach at the NFL level..If its true what you say, that he couldn't do it, it only reflects his flaws at this level.
That's my view. He likes to be the big fish in the little pond. Controlling players hasn't bothered his friend in New England. Saban needed to adjust, and didn't want to. He knew coaching the college game was easier. Call it not able to control players all you want, you don't think he knew that going in? lol
I think it's more complex than that. It's not that Saban couldn't control players or people in the NFL, it's that his control didn't lead to winning. What good did his control of the draft do him? How'd terrorizing the office staff work out? His entire schtick failed him. (Jaj, if you're reading this, clear some space in your PM inbox. )
Oh I would disagree. Bill had a group of veterans back in the early 2000s that are severely underrated. Ever since then he's had trouble with younger guys on the defensive side of the ball. He had to acquire Wes Welker to help Brady lead that offense. Bill hasn't been able to create even a decent defense with ALL THOSE picks he spent on that D? That's miserable.
I think being able to connect and motivate the nfl player and unite a football team to play as one is what NFL coaching is all about, if you can't do it then it doesn't matter how genius you are schematically, you are a failure at this level...From what we know, Saban didn't seem to have that, didn't seem to have the personality to win them over.
Had we signed Brees he would have stepped off a curb and been run over by a garbage truck....that's just the way things happen to the Phins.
Completely absurd comment. There is a reason teams sold out and decided to tee of on Culpepper. That never would have been the case with Brees. Some of you can try to make yourselves feel better about what is one of the worst decisions in Phins history by thinking Brees would have failed here but there is nothing to support that. This team would be on an entirely different level right now had we brought in Brees. As for the decision... whether it was Saban or Wayne that got scared by our med staff, point is that our med staff went against the opinion of the most accomplished surgeon working with the NFL. It was their fault overall.
Peter King is a moron and his writing generally sucks..but he had this to say: "if Saban got his way, and got Brees, he would still be in Miami today, had won a super bowl, and would be coaching a AFC powerhouse."
As much as I hate Saban, I can't blame him for missing out on Brees. I can't even blame the doctors. They went out and got second and I believe even a third opinion. All the doctors said the exact same thing. I can't even blame Wayne since it makes complete sense to listen to the best doctors out there. Really the only one I can blame for missing out on Brees is Wanny. And of course while I agree that Saban is one of the best xs and Os coaches on the planet, I still hate him for how he left and how he treated people while he was here.
Its not being able to control them on the field. Its off the field. He had a lot of rules and regulations that work in college, but struggled to in the NFL. In college, he keeps tabs on every single player and where they were, what they did, how long they were out, etc. On the field, there are very little problems. There's a coaching clinic he did and he mentions Miami in passing. Briefly talked about how Marino was a pain to deal with when he was in Cleveland and then says the doctors really screwed him over on Brees.
Thats what I meant bro, controlling them to keep their minds totally focused on the craft..Controlling them to get them on the same page as a team.
I beg to differ. Saban was way over his head in the NFL. While I will admit that Brees would have been a much better selection than Culpepper at QB. The fact is that Saban was responsible for two of the worst drafts in Dolphins history. From the 2005 draft, the only players he drafted who contributed to the Dolphins for more then a year were Ronnie Brown and Channing Crowder. While both these players were starters for the Dolphins for six years. Neither was ever an impact player on offence or defense. As the second overall pick in the draft, Brown was never anything more than an average back in the NFL. Saban's 2006 draft may be the worst in the history of Miami Dolphin drafts. Not a single player from this draft ever became a starter for the Dolphins. In fact Jason Allen was perhaps the worst first round pick the Dolphins have ever made. When Saban left the Dolphins to return to college, he had so diminished the roster with his drafts and free agent signings that the Dolphins were the worst team in the NFL in 2007. While I think Cam Cameron was a terrible head coach. The fact is that Saban had left the Dolphins in far worse shape, talent wise, then they were when he was hired to take over the head coaching job with the Dolphins. Saban is an outstanding college coach, but as an NFL head coach, he was a complete failure.
I never got the whole "he lied thing." Media: "Are you going to Alabama." Saban: "I'm the Dolphins coach, all I'm worried about is getting us ready." Media: "Did you get offered a job at Alabama? Are you going?" Saban: "I'm here to talk about the Dolphins, I'm not the coach of Alabama." Season ends, he resigns from the Dolphins and goes signs with Alabama. Media: Liar!!! He lied to us!!!!! How could HE do this to US ?!?!! NO!!!!!!!!!!! F the media, I wish he had pee'd in their gatorade too. They lie every 2 effin seconds, bunch of hypocrites. Bobby Petrino made Saban look like Mother Theresa.
Everything you just said was failures of the personnel moves and nothing to do with coaching. If he had a good GM that was in control of the roster Saban would of been one of the best coaches in the NFL right now
Please, I'm over the whole saban thing and admit he would of been a great nfl coach but to say he didn't lie and didn't go about it in a ***** way is false. He specifically said he wasn't taking the Alabama job, then next day he's gone and didn't even have the balls to face his team.
He specifically said, "I'm not going to Alabama" and then went on to berate and belittle the reporter for asking the question. Anybody who doesn't get that he lied needs to look up the definition.
He was the one who demanded control over all the personnel moves when he agreed to become the coach of the Dolphins. So he has to take responsibility for all the lousy decisions he made in selecting talent while he was here. Whether he would have been a good coach in the NFL if he had a good GM is an irrelevant argument because he would have never taken the job in the first place, without final say on personnel decisions. His record in two seasons with the Dolphins was 15-17. So there is absolutely no way anyone could infer from this record that Saban would have been one of the best coaches in the NFL if he had remained with the Dolphins. The fact that his record was 9-7 in his first season and 6-10 in his second season would conclude that he probably got out of town as fast as he could, because he knew that he was a lousy judge of NFL talent and it was only a matter of time before he would be fired if he stayed any longer as coach of the Dolphins.
It goes against history, experience and common sense. Never—not once—has there ever been a report of Huizenga interceding in a player personnel matter. NEVER. Hank Goldberg was someone in another time; now he's a bitter little man with a gambling problem and he needs to make a splash to regain some attention and make some dough to keep his kneecaps. I put ZERO credence in this bull****.
Actually, didn't Wayne tell JJ that Marino was off limits when JJ was thinking trade to build the team?? Not that I would have liked that move...
Shula was trying to move Marino in '88 for Mike Singletary and Neal Anderson. Believe it or not. Bears shot it down.
geeesh, we've talked about this ad nauseum, however, Alabama made an offer it would be hard to refuse -- even IF we did get Brees. Saban knew that he was stuck with Culpepper and had no solution at QB - period ... it would have taken a couple more years BEST CASE to get over that incredible blunder. Given those same circumstances -- i would have chosen to go to AL as well. Live like a king with an easier job, no salary cap, no attitude that you can't fix, everyone tries hard every game, everyone wants to come and play in that program .... and still make gobs of $$$$; folks need to get off the man's jock. Why do you think Parcells leaves after 3-4 years ... easy -- it's easy to 'lay the foundation' in a rebuilding franchise; we've talked about this --- what is hard, is completing the mission and transforming a solid foundation into a championship calibler team. There are several folks on this site that could do everything Parcells did, with his Wolf based philosophy. Unfortunately, we like several teams are just 3-5 impact players away from being where we want to be ..... many believe we are in a worse state than that -- but we are not. Our problem is coaching - plain and simple .... this is a replay of the CAM year -- a lost year for the franchise, and the players are playing like it.
I despise Benedict Saban as much as anyone, but even I can't fault him for deferring to our crack(pot) medical staff who predicted Brees had a 1 in 4 probability of fully recovering. What I can fault him for is taking an "either-or" position and signing another damaged and obviously flawed Culpepper. His attitude of refusing to rehab in Mpls, The Love Boat and rehabbing himself in some health club in an Orlando strip shopping center notwithstanding, all Saban really needed to do was review tape of the season prior to him going down and how he stunk without Randy Moss. When an intuitive, elusive mobile QB with a sub 15 Wonderlic loses his mobility and must rely on his smarts, the resulting stench should be no surprise. The irony is that Saban's biggest brainfart was passing on Aaron Rodgers and signing journeyman Frerrotte, who in concert with Scott Linehan actually eked out a winning record.. and then dumping Frerrotte and squandering a valuable 2nd rounder for worthless Daunte. Aside from the lying, quitting, FO autocratic bullying and poor SEC-driven drafting decisions, what I hold him most culpable for is us not presently having Rodgers, the best NFL QB. All these seemingly endless and ad nauseum Ryan/Long debates would and should have been moot otherwise!
How could have Saban answered the question to where it would have been suitable? Yes, I'm in the middle of my season with Dolphins, but at the end of it, I'm going to Alabama? He would have been crucified AND lost the locker room. The media put Saban in a no win position and he actually chose the answer that hurt the Dolphins the least. The Saban hate is stupid.
