Funny you claim to say you never said Henne was as good as Matt Ryan and then proceed to explain how Matt Ryan is really not better and just depends on elite players all around him. If thinking that makes you feel better about this inept FO more power to you. If you think Atlanta has a better set of WRs than Miami there's really nothing else to say here. I'm not sure whether to take this suggestion that Atlanta just far and away has better skill position players than the likes of New England, Indianapolis, and Green Bay seriously.
here is my issue with this whole debate. in a nutshell, it comes down to many feel like we passed on qbs that are felt tpo better than Henne and thus judge everything henne does with the eye of if we had this other qb we wouldnt have lost we wouldnt have missed that play we wouldnt have left plays on teh field amd we would be crdible. I say to that with the exception of 3 to 6 qbs we wouldnt be sign better. There atre bigger issues than Henne. Kid yourself all you want, Ryan doesnt solve this puzzle. Brady wins games despite the defense, peyton does, brees does, rivers does, ben does. Ryan may or may not. But I am not sold completely. I hate pointing o one play/one drive and saying see I told you so he cant do it. Yet Marshall your star drops 2 easy td passes amd yet he made other plays so its ok. I guess people see things differently. Whatever, the only thing I care about is we start winning
hmmmm, we may have different definitions of criticism, but yours about this QB were harsh, over and over...at this point hes taken all that harsh criticism he got from most and stuck it to those..I use that phrase harshly, just like the criticism he received...now there is time for your projection to come tru, its only the 4th game.
Are we talking about the Matt Ryan who has a lower QB Rating than Henne (81.5 vs 82.4), a lower TD/INT ratio (1.25 vs 1.33), lower average (6.9 vs 7.8), less 20+ yarders (8 vs 16), virtually equal redzone TD %age despite no dropped TDs (20% vs 19%)? The same Matt Ryan who is 1-2 whose win was thanks to a Michael Turner 61 yard run followed by a Turner TD as an encore?
They should have moved up and gotten freeman or flaco. They had the ammo at the time for either. Instead they stood pat with pennington and henne, and used they picks they saved on players like white and merling. It's easey to look back in hindsight I guess. The freeman miss really bothers me after this off season's talk of how much they value a mobile qb. I think henne could be the guy, but if he doesn't show it soon, one way or another, he won't be the guy for ireland. Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk
The way I see it Ireland and Sporano have had too many misses overall to worry about if Henne was a good choice or not. As of right now Henne is playing about as well as Fiedler played for us which is an improvement to his first couple of seasons. I hope he continues to improve but it really dosnt seem to matter much because Ireland and Sporano do not seem to be improving this team. We are a below average team and for all the moves they have made we really have not shown any improvement overall. I feel like I am in the movie groundhog day for a decade now. I have not even decided if I am going to even bother watching the game Sunday. It just ruins my week watching the pathetic onfield performances.
and what amazes me is that even though The website Pro Football Focus, which analyzes every snap of every game, ranks the Dolphins' pass blocking as the worst in the NFL, Henne has played as well as he is..
Ah I see. So in the face of specific citations of what I said, you choose to rely on generalities and vagaries in order to insist you're right. That's cool.
I think there are quite a few qbs that hhave performed better than henne, however when factoring in whether they should have drafted a guy you cant use hindsight. In hindsight SD passes on Leaf. many other examples. Who did they pass on they had a shot at getting that was clearly bettr than the options they chose at the time they chose them. Freeman and Flacco are and were considered very good but had as many questions as henne. I know many disagree with me, but with the adversity this team has had, the dysfunction, very few qbs would have had success. You look at players success with the teams that took them and project the same success here, well that is hard to do as the system, the coaches, the support are not the same. That is what is wrong with taking player evaluation and projecting success. Not that it is meaningless but 40 times, shuttle times, etc cant measure team success. You cant say well I see his feet and he wont succeed, he has a wierd delivery so he cant succeed. All they do is are indicators of potential success and failures, gauges to assess risk and reward. They are veryt good indicators and are usefull and needed. But they dont tell everything. Ryan has had his moments both good an bad. I am not sure what to make of Ryan but I really think he will be very good and has been good. Isnt elite yet and may never be, but he has proven IMO that you can win with him, ....in Atlanta. the question have is could you put him on a team like ours and perfrom the same level of play? That is where I am not sold. You know brees, brady, rivers, manning can. I think Vick is getting there now that he takes the game seriously. I think Cam Newton will be there, I am really impressed with him, CK deserves mad props for that call. Henne IMO teh book is out for me, I know some think its written and printed and shipped. I do think no matter what we HAVE TO not an option not to, invest heavily this draft in a qb. having said that, I am impressed with Henne working hard, not quitting, not folding under adversity. Stas dont tell everything no matter how they are spun. they are important but are not like baseball stats, the immeasurables he has shown over last year is sign IMO. He is making throws that he couldnt before, is more aggressive. more of teh potential is being achieved, but he has to make leaps not steps, and that is what I am waiting to see. He is unquestioningly running out of time, but it isnt a certainty one way o teh other IMO
Chad Henne has been very impressive on a number of plays this year. There have been a handful of times when he's come out of the pocket and made throws on the run, and I'd say generally about 2 out 3 of those throws have been right on the money. Those were excellent, pro, franchise QB type plays. I won't get into the problems that he STILL has which prevent him being a franchise quarterback, but he's made progress on several fronts. If only his progress weren't always paired with regress, he'd have a chance. But, c'est la vie.
from the way you started out and ended your post, I didn't think you wanted to talk specific's..sounded to me like a continuation of sort, from offseason analysis..I guess I responded to that post because nowhere in it do I see someone admitting that they may of misjudged the player up til this point, relative to their own level of criticism... Would love to talk about the players ascension, regardless if he has the potential to be a QB that you can win the whole thing with, or not, or, how it seems like the dude knows how to work on his game and get better at specific things, sometimes exponentially.
Well, what it seems to me, is that in the face of me being right about so many things regarding the Dolphins and how bad they'll be, you'd like to find some things I was wrong about. That's fine, but I think you're being a bit lazy in your choice of things. You could just ask. 1. They drafted Daniel Thomas and Charles Clay. They signed Reggie Bush. There was a report that before they even gave Mike Pouncey a playbook, they gave him pages on things he needs to know for operating the Wildcat. All of this to me was a sure sign that not only are they going to use the Wildcat but that Wildcat concerns bleed too much into their thinking on personnel. I have one word for that theory: "Oops" 2. Though I think Daniel Thomas is showing through a combination of fumbling, pass protection miscues, and being unhealthy and missing games, that I was right in being wary about being forced to rely too heavily on a rookie tailback, I was also concerned that Thomas would continue running too high, and just not be an effective runner his rookie year. Through two games he's been a highly effective runner, even as a rookie. 3. I didn't think this offensive line would be effective at blocking for the run. Especially over the last two games, they have been much better at it than I envisioned this early in the year. 4. I thought our cornerbacks would be better this year than we've seen in a long time. I have the same word in response to that theory: "Oops" I mean, I've always been very candid about instances where my predictions have been wrong. Hell I predicted the Dolphins would be 1-2 to this point, not 0-3. But I think people that spend so much time arguing with me, I end up right, and they want to pick out instances of me being wrong in order to wave it in my face out of frustration, and they just go about it pretty lazily.
At the end of the day CK, what's you gut feeling now? You thought we'd be 1-3 heading into the Jet game and you might still be right. Still think the Jet game is the turning point or does 0-4 seal it this Sunday?
I would like for you to get into what you think those problems are that will keep him from being a franchise QB?..I have concerns as well, and often think about whether you can win big games with some of the inherent weaknesses he does have... Ive always stated that if Henne fails, imo, it would most likely come from his inability to make plays athletically, and an abundance of straitline trajectory {deft touch}, that will always keep him inconsistent..I'am not sure if you can work around it schematically, however, He's actually showing signs of improvement, some playmaking ability, {like on the run outside the pocket with his head up throwin darts}, some good character and intangibles, {dealing with a very critical offseason fanbase",or the unimaginable, defensive coordinators actually have to tell their defensive players that this dude will tuck it and run.. So I'am trying to figure out if the skillset is good enough not just to win games but to win it all. I've heard many times that Chad has all the tools, and I know he has improved, but, are those tools all there?, or will some of these inherent weaknesses prohibit him from executing in big games under pressure.?
Part of me wants to say that 0-4 "seals" it...but realistically, I thought that last week. I thought they'd beat the Browns, but if they did lose, then 0-3 would "seal" it. I think this locker room is pretty fragile right now. Their motivation game was last week. That was the game where the veterans spoke up, chastised everyone about practice habits, talked to the press, really seemed like they were knuckling down and going to battle to get this thing turned around. What I felt was, if they do all that, and they still fall short of a win somehow? That'll just suck the wind right out of their sails. And that's what I think has happened. I don't think the locker room is smashed and defeated, but I think they're in a daze. What would have to happen for them to win this game would be San Diego really botching it. I don't know where the Chargers' psyche is right now, but I do know that Phil Rivers is being criticized for an uncharacteristic slow start for him and the passing game. So when Vegas oddsmakers threw out that -9 line to start things out...that's a BIG line, but I understood it. They're figuring that this could be the game where the Dolphins finally implode under the strain of their situation, or the Chargers' passing game explodes after performing kind of minimally in a few games...or both. Now, the money has bet the Dolphins down to -7, I think it's fair to say the money is going against the book on this one. But that happened last week, and to a MUCH more drastic extent. The Browns started out -3 and by the time the game went off I believe they were at something ridiculous like +2.5. So anyway, back to the original question...I go off inflection points. Yes, if the Dolphins go 0-4 here, then there's a good chance that will be a nail-in-the-coffin result...and something drastic could happen during the bye, maybe even firing Tony. But that result may already be fated, and what fated it was an inflection point in Week 3 when they gave everything they had against the Browns, and they still came up short, showing that there's no more road magic...they just keep losing.
In other words, I saw a true inflection point happening in Week 6 against the Jets...but the Dolphins sped that up to Week 3 by being even worse than I thought.
Can't speak for CK, but I would list his issues as: -Doesn't understand what defenses are doing (i.e. doesn't recognize when the defense is giving him an opportunity they don't want to give up) -Doesn't make quick enough decisions -Doesn't use his eyes to move defenders -Doesn't place the ball well enough -Doesn't move well in the pocket -Doesn't maintain his eye level when there is pressure
your taking things out of context..It was a simple response to a sarcasm laded post at the QB, once again, not something that he deserves, compared to his performance, jmo.
not that it matters, but I have given you much credit on your offseason analysis, you didn't have to go there.
I think Henne has bad vision on the field, and it affects him in so many varied ways. And when I say bad vision I don't mean something that is correctable with eye contacts or something like that. Or at least, for this coaching staff's sakes, I would certainly hope it wouldn't be such a simple oversight as that! I think it's more of a concentration issue. Bad low peripheral vision means that handling the rush for him is always going to have some level of awkwardness. If he handles the rush one way, he gets obscene results this way. If he handles the rush this other way, he gets obscene results in some other way. You can focus a lot of extre protectors on helping him stay upright, but then defenses stop sending extra blitzers and that detracts from the offense's potency through wasted blockers. You can have him focus on scrambling out and being more active with his feet, but then he's going get hit an obscene amount, also get sacked more often, and since he doesn't have a natural feel for the improv game he's going to take his eyes off the field too quickly and easily, taking the easiest option to just gain what he can with his feet. The bad low peripheral vision also detracts from his ability to see defenders undercutting his routes. And finally, it gets his passes batted at the line way more than normal, because he doesn't have a natural feel for passing lanes. But the batted passes has a second contributor, which is also tied to the vision, and that is dead feet within the pocket. But why does he have dead feet within the pocket, when clearly he has some speed and athletic ability to him? I mean, after all, the man is outrushing Chris Johnson at the moment. Bad vision gets even worse if you're moving around a lot. In my opinion, he doesn't work the pocket or climb the ladder out of habit, because he's trying to see the field. Bad vision is always going to work against him that way. It's also going to contribute to consistently bad ball placement. The man could pit the ace from 30 yards if it came to just pure throwing ability. But it's all about targeting, seeing things on the field quickly and accurately so you can place the ball well with moving targets. I talked about this play before but you look at the play I think maybe against the Patriots, or maybe Texans, but it was one where Brandon Marshall was facing single coverage from a CB that was lined up in the press pre-snap. This was on the door step of the end zone. The call was for a fade. Both the WR and QB could read the CB's leverage pre-snap and see that he was in press man, so you run the fade to the outside and hope Marshall can get open against the single coverage. At the snap of the ball, the CB turns his back and bails aggressively, so basically this had the look of a disguised coverage. Marshall read this on the run, and tried to stop short and get Henne to throw him the back shoulder. But Henne wasn't on the same page with him, because he'd stopped reading the corner's leverage at the snap of the ball. Henne throws the fade, Marshall had hesitated on his route, and that play was damn near a pick. Now, the coaches might turn around and tell Marshall he has to run that fade no matter what. Be where you're supposed to be, and that will cut down on some issues. But it also limits the potency of the passing attack, and implies that Chad Henne isn't good enough to read defensive back leverage after the snap, which is something an Aaron Rodgers does all the time. Brandon Marshall in essence is trying to get his QB to play Chess with him, and the coaches are telling him no, you must play Checkers. Anyway, bad vision is one of the big issues I have with Henne.
So the initial poster asks who this regime should of gotten to cure the QB woes and after 6 pages all we have gotten was post after post critiquing Henne but noone has answered his question besides a couple of people mentioning Matt Ryan. I think the OP has pretty much made his point. We drafted an all world LT first which up until a couple of weeks ago, no one had an issue with. Henne started playing after Chad got hurt in his second year and looked promising enough where practically everyone thought he could be our future QB. His first full season he had his ups and downs but had his shining moments ala the monday night game against the jets and people were still on the Henne bandwagon. Last year, as should be expected, Henne had huge expectations. The team floundered. Henne played terrible the latter half of the season and we had unforgivable home losses to the Lions, Bills and Browns which sealed our teams fate. At this point many fans, and not surprisingly, wanted to see an upgrade at QB. Well looking at the draft, Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder were all picked ahead of our selection. In fact stories came out later on that we were looking to take Ponder if the Vikings didnt draft him. Available QBs in either FA or via trade were Orton and Kolb. I think only a few people know what really happened with Orton but it seems the fact that he wanted a big long term deal pushed us away from him and thank god for that and Arizona gave up a kings ransom for Kolb. So once again, the OP asked who we should of gotten to replace Henne when you realized he wasnt the answer and noone seems to be able to answer it. All i see is page after page after page of criticizing Henne but thats not what the OP asked. Should we of drafted Ryan Mallett? A QB that no one wanted until the middle of the 3rd round. I thought the complaint was that we didnt invest our first rounders with QBs. People complain that we used a 2nd on a QB but somehow thought that a 3rd round qb was the answer. Mallett has one pretty good quarter against 3rd team scrubs in the first preseason game and people were screaming how we blew it then. Henne may very well not be the answer, and trust me i'm all over the suck for luck bandwagon but the question remains. Who was the better option out there going into this season? I dont see any but people like to make noise anyway
I don't think there were many options going into this season. I think they know that they need a better quarterback and fortunately for them there are likely four of them this year to choose in the draft. I'm honestly excited because of guys like Luck, Barkley, Jones, and Robert Griffin III. All are mobile, strong armed QBs that are far ahead of where Chad Henne was as a prospect a few years back. Chad Henne it is until those guys are ready. Find a RT, RG, and second RB elsewhere...
no longer about Henne, he managed the team w/o the benefit of an OL. not a seaworthy ship (franchise) to set to sea
