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Ted Ginn just took one to the house

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by cdz12250, Sep 11, 2011.

  1. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Good for Ginn, I don't really see him being a big part of the rebuilding that we were doing here but he would have been nice to have around for kick returns. I do think he will have one or two big games a year and help with field position, which is worth a roster spot IMO. Not a huge deal to get rid of him, I understand why we did it but I would have liked to keep him around to help special teams.
     
  2. AbideN703

    AbideN703 Yes, I'd hit it

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    Maybe you missed him not having a catch as well as only rushing for 0 yards on 1 carry too. S.F. has weapons on O too so what's his excuse now?
     
  3. CANEPHINS

    CANEPHINS No Tats & Dreads Allowed

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    Seriously. He avg's 1 return for a TD a season. Why? Because every other year he has brought back 0-2-0-2. This year he got his 2 in on game 1. He has 6 receiving TD's in 4 seasons + 1 game. 1 TD every 10 games.

    Yeah...the dude is a stud! He doesn't suck at all. 1 TD every 10 games and avg 1 return for TD per season. Must have on any roster, iyam. :up:

    He isn't even on our team anymore and the Ginn apologists still can't let it go. :no:
     
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  4. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    Every two years he does something and people want to keep him. Didn't Fletcher make more plays then that every two years?

    ^^This. Do we really need to bring him up every two years when he does something? The same as Brees. :headwall:
     
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  5. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    The man is a dynamic returner....he had to lobby to return kicks because our regime was incompetent.

    He could've served a purpose but he's gone now, but funny how much hate he still gets.
     
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  6. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Dynamic returner has 3 TDs on kick returns in 5 years? Hester is Dynamic. Ginn is fast, and gets lucky a few times.

    Also, the adjective "man" should be used loosely :shifty:
     
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  7. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Why is it funny? High draft choice + below average results + 3 years = crappy product.
     
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  8. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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    Ginn could only do one thing.... why would this regime want him?
     
  9. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I thought "man" was a noun rather than adjective.
     
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  10. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Probably. but in the context I was refering (for the jokes purpose) It was used to describe him, incorrectly :lol:
     
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  11. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Without diving into a stat book i would guess he returned kicks maybe 70% of that time. But sure lets call it luck.
     
  12. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    That equation adds up to more players than Ginn, some ppl wanted to compare Jason Allen to Troy Palamalu
     
  13. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    No, Fletcher didn't. In 41 games for Miami he had 2 ints and 12 passes defensed. Also, if someone does not like Ginn threads when they pop up, they are not obligated to participate. Also by doing so, they contribute to keeping the threads toward the top of page 1.
     
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  14. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Whats that even mean? The dolphins defense in 07 and 08 were bad, that means we were giving up scores, that means the other team was kicking off, that means ginn was returning. (without jumping into a stat book either).

    Look, we know your a HUGE ohio state guy. We know you may or may not have literally married Ted Ginn "allegedly".

    But get over it bro. Hes not here anymore. If he was a Michigan grad would you for years, even after he was gone, wear your knight armour with his crest on it defending him to death, wherever his name popped up on this board? Doubt it.
     
  15. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    as long as we are revsing history here: Yatil Green was the greatest WR we ever had and Marino sucked.
     
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  16. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Ginn was worth keeping around because he filled the need of a playmaking return man and couldve imo been a serviceable #4 #5 Wr. I dont care if he went to the university of Al Queda if I think he couldve contributed im going to defend that position.
     
  17. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    I hear they have a real good Chemistry program.
     
  18. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    In 2009 he was 13th in the league in kick returns. He had his one good game(the oft-referenced Jets game that has prompted this "Lost Cause" type effort), and then what? You take away the two long returns vs. the Jets, and he's averaging 21.92 yards per kick return, good for 28th in the league that year. So yes, outside of his one good game, he was very much below average.

    2007 he was averaging 22.7 per return, good for 29th in the league. That's well below average on the face of it. His punt returns were pretty good, but once again outside of his one broken return, his average is 6.2, "good" for 21st in the league.

    I don't understand how this is contrary to my point. When he is your returner, you suffer bad play week in and week out, essentially losing the war in hopes that he'll win you a battle.
     
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  19. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So long as they suck at microbiology and nuclear physics I'm cool with it.
     
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  20. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well, hold on here. At the time of his first return TD the 49ers had a 2 point lead at 19-17. They won the game 33-17. Seattle didn't score again. Ginn didn't give them the lead, or the points that won them the game, had he not returned either the kickoff or the punt, they still could have won the game 19-17 by playing defense. Lets not get carried away here.

    The guy is not a good football player at the pro level. He's going to return the odd kick or punt once in a while, sure. That's about it. I like the guy while he was here, and had no real problems with him other than where we drafted him, and all of his ridiculous drops, but to say he won the game for them yesterday is a bit of a stretch.
     
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  21. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Not a "bit of a stretch". You threw down the facts. It IS a stretch. Actually, it's plain False.
     
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  22. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    He won the game for them. Sealed it in fact. Ginn is a talented returner and average WR, we know this. He would've been find if we already had established starting WRs. Next to Marshall and Bess he would've been a great option in the slot for us. Oh well.
     
  23. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    I'll say it for the 4,765th time...

    If he is completely mediocre as a returner, but he returns 1 TD a year to change 1 game...he is worth keeping.

    If he can return multiple kicks in a year for TD's..YOU MUST keep him.

    Getting rid of Tedd Ginn was a mistake. You can't do much better as a 4th or 5th receiver.
     
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  24. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Talk about your 20/20 hindsight. People wanted him gone and that was damn near everyone..regardless of his returns. Everyone realized that he'll do this once per year and then the rest of his returns will be below average.

    He's the equivalent of the defensive back who will make 3 or 4 picks, but give up twice as many TD's and provide no run support.
     
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  25. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Saying it is one thing, justifying it with facts is completely different.

    He's done that once. Every other time he has returned a kick or punt for a touchdown, it has not changed the game. Every single other touchdown or punt he has returned in his career has either come in a losing effort, or in a game that would have been won without it and was at the time more than a field goal ahead.

    He has one single game that you're using to justify his existence.

    Yes, you absolutely can do much better as a 4th or 5th receiver than Ted Ginn. We almost certainly have now. We can find someone who is most cost effective, can run a wider variety of routes than Ginn, and catch a greater percentage of passes at him, without his cost as a factor to give him targets he doesn't deserve.
     
  26. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    Not to mention he had several returns for TDs when he was here that were called back due to penalty. He would have had alot more if not for that. But as a WR he played scared and with no consistency. Bad route runnner. And that was pretty much his scouting report when Cam Cameron drafted him. Everyone knew what were getting out of Ted Ginn Jr. except Cam Cameron, that he's a guy you draft when you already have weapons(and a good QB). Sporano tried to make it work with him as a starter but it clearly he wasn't starting material. But this was before Marshall and under Henning's playcalling, imagine what we could do with him with a more loaded offense and creative playcalling. So everyone involved screwed this one up. Maybe Clyde Gates could be that guy.
     
  27. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck

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    I wonder if the new rules actually help a guy like Ginn.

    His problem was that he was boom or bust - his returns were great or fairly miserable (hence his mediocre average even though he had a lot of bigger returns).

    With the new rules, there is less of an emphasis on consistent good returns, as most kick-offs result in touchbacks. The very nature of the kick-off now seems to be boom or bust - and may actually be a benefit for a guy like Ginn.
     
  28. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    That's actually a good analysis, Ginn is a boom or bust type of returner, I remember alot of times he picked the wrong wedge to run through and got clobbered. Other times he'd sprint to the sideline hoping for a opening down the line, often getting pushed out of bounds.

    At first I was convinced the new rules would kill returns for TDs. Then yesterday I heard that 4 kickoffs were returned for TDs on Sunday. I also realize that alot of teams have crappy special team units, like us for example. And not every kicker is a Janikowski type with a big leg. A guy like Ginn could thrive in this new era of less emphasis on special teams.
     
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  29. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    maybe you misunderstood.

    If a guy can change ONE game a year due to a return while being mediocre the rest of the year as a returner, he is worth keeping.

    you are breaking down the instances of when he made his returns, when it is completely irrelevant.

    You either believe that Tedd Ginn can effect one game a year or you don't. I do. well worth a spot as the 4th or 5th WR. IMO.
     
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  30. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    See that's some pretty poor thinking. It's ok to keep a returner if he changes one game for the positive but ignore the rest of the year where he's giving your offense poor starting position which in the end affects many more games? I don't think so.

    Give me the guy who will give your offense the better starting position every time instead of the guy who is going to make your offense work that much harder.
     
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  31. PHINfromAFAR

    PHINfromAFAR New Member

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    I just don't understand the new-found love for this guy?
    I liked him when we got him but it quickly became apparent that he played scared. I think this is what makes him a good return guy, runs for his life every time.

    People saying that if he wins us one game a year hes worth it.... no, hes not. Lets not forget all the other games he cost us. Ball high over the middle, he was never gonna go up and get it. Had to fight a defender for space, not gonna happen. Choice of take a hit from a defender to try and get a critical 1st down or run out of bounds, straight to the sideline everytime.

    There is a reason we got rid of him, there is also a reason he cant crack the 49's wr squad. If you wanted just a return guy there are others out there that are fast but that can also contribute in other ways.

    Bottom line is he has no heart and is a coward. We are better off without him.
     
  32. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck

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    This.

    I was always amazed how many people argued that a consistent kick returner was better than a boom or bust one. That is one position where ONE big return is infinitely better than a bunch of average returns.

    The difference between the 20 and the 25 is almost nothing. The difference between getting free points out of your special teams is HUGE.
     
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  33. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck

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    All of your concerns are with his as a WR (and one that would be in during critical situations). As a returner and occasional deep threat he very much had value.

    He sucked as a consistent, #1 receiver, that doesn't make him bad at everything. No one complains that Cam Wake doesn't have more interceptions.
     
  34. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    We got Nolan Carroll with the pick. It also created the opening to draft Gates to fulfill speed at WR. I would take that over Ginn every day of the week.

    For the "one" win he was instrumental in, Ginn contributed to many losses...dropped ball in end zone vs. Colts, kicked ball against Saints, etc...

    And how big of a negative effect did it have on teammates to watch him run out of bounds even when he needed only one more yard for a 1st down? Or catch the ball and fall down immediately when he had 5 yards before contact? Or fair catch balls that could have been returned to avoid contact? Or let balls bounce and roll losing an additional 10 yards that clearly could have be caught?

    By the time adding in the fair catches and balls that he let bounce and roll negating in losses is added into his returns Ginn's average PR would be around .0001!

    Next to the definition of Pu**y in the dictionary is a picture of Ted Ginn Jr.
     
  35. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck

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    The "he ran out of bounds!" narrative is completely overblown and ridiculous. He didn't run out of bounds any more than any other returner / speed WR.

    His game is finding the corner and turning it up field to use his speed to outrun people. If there wasn't a seem he ran out of bounds rather than taking a hit that would've resulted in exactly zero additional yards.

    Let's re-sign Lou Polite, Deon Dyer and Rob Konrad to be our kick returners if that's what y'all want.
     
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  36. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Somehow..you have him fumbling every other return and running backwards and kneeling down at the 1 yard line.
     
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  37. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    No I have him with poor returns outside of his run backs. When Ginn isn't running them back he consistently puts teams in poor starting position.
     
  38. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Or to the 50.
     
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  39. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    you can have an extra 1.7 yards per return.

    Win me ONE GAME a year on your own as a 4th or 5th WR. You know..there are only 16 of them.
     
  40. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Is that your perception from what you recall in your mind, or have you gone back and broken down every one of his returns? If you have ok, but I am going from my recollections and admit as much and what I recall was when he was average on a return, it wasn't much different than a typical Pat Cobbs return, but he also had the occasional long returns mixed in. Guys like Gates and Carroll have plenty of speed, but were never heavily used as or consistently top notch return men in college. Only fast and athletic. Some guys have the instincts to be good as return men, like Ginn and Livas. Some do not, like Gates and Carroll. If either were a great return man, then I'd figure their college coaches would have seen it and used then in college. Not every fast WR or DB can be a very good return man
     
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