1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Jared Odrick and Sean Smith can't wait until Monday...with good reason

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolfan7171, Sep 9, 2011.

  1. dolfan7171

    dolfan7171 Well-Known Member

    18,065
    3,629
    113
    Jun 12, 2009
    Arizona
  2. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

    32,070
    22,827
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    If we go 1-3 or 1-4, Please...please...football gods, let our one win be over the Patriots. I haven't been this nervous over a game in awhile.
     
    Larry Little and Kanye West like this.
  3. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    75,121
    37,639
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    New York
    Man, I hope Odrick and Smith can back up their words. Smith can, no question be a stud CB. His height and athleticism is a serious advantage he has vs other CB's. WIth WR's now coming at you with 6'5/220lb frames having that height is an equalizer that few teams have the luxury of. And Odrick can settle for being just another cog in what should be an elite D-Line rotation or he can separate himself and make himself standout. He can be the pass-rusher, the Richard Seymour or Aaron Smith...the key cog that lead Super Bowl winning defenses as an elite pass rushing 3-4 end.

    Now the right side of the OL...they have a different something to prove. They have to prove they arent washed up!
     
    smahtaz likes this.
  4. Kanye West

    Kanye West 'Parcells' Guy

    11,075
    1,946
    0
    Mar 23, 2008
    I just want to beat the damn Pats. I hate everything about them
     
  5. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

    31,949
    11,899
    0
    Nov 24, 2007
    I can't wait for the game so we can stop hearing them talk, and see them play.

    I don't mind so much Odrick talking, he has a lot to say, and I'm pulling hard for him.

    Smith...ugh. I wish both of our Corners would just SHUT UP and do it on the field. Particularly, make some interceptions when the ball hits them in their damn hands.

    Smith's physical tools are obvious, but it's also obvious that he plays soft, and in preseason he didn't flash any indication that his coverage skills nor his tackling have improved.
     
    aesop, Trowa, finyank13 and 4 others like this.
  6. 5thAmendment

    5thAmendment Banned

    167
    65
    0
    Aug 29, 2011
    Couldn't agree more on Sean Smith's softness. I'm worried that teams are going to attack him in the run game now that he's on the left side. I'm not worried about Misi and Vontae on the right, but Wake and Smith? Holding my breath...
     
  7. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

    15,112
    7,311
    113
    Aug 15, 2010
    Davie
    Wow, Smith continues to get dogged like he's Reggie f*cking Howard.
     
  8. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

    31,949
    11,899
    0
    Nov 24, 2007
    He gets critiqued like Sean ****ing Smith, who still, this very preseason, missed a tackle that allowed a 52-yard run.
     
    Trowa, steveincolorado and djphinfan like this.
  9. 5thAmendment

    5thAmendment Banned

    167
    65
    0
    Aug 29, 2011
    Yeah he's soft but it takes more than one missed tackle to make a 52 yard run happen. Bell whiffed on the play, Wake looked like he was out for a morning jog, Vontae wanted no parts Blount and Dansby finally put a stop to the madness. Sean missed the guy twice and his reputation makes him an easy target but I cant put it all on him.
     
  10. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    75,121
    37,639
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    New York
    He did miss the tackle but theres really nothing that substantiates Smith as a poor tackler last year. He missed 4 all of last year which while cut short for poor play is still a low number considering the amount of run snaps he played(308 plays). Vontae missed 13 in 454 run plays. Smith also ranked 17th out of 100 amongst CB's that played more then 25% of their snaps in cumulative run defense. Vontae ranked 14th btw.

    I agree Smith can use tackling work but he is not as poor as some here make him out to be.
     
  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    its not his tackling I worry about so much, moreso his lateral and short area quickness.

    Thats the thing about the two corners, and Why I have Vontae as being superior, right now have no worries about any part of Vontae's game that would cause me concern, I can't say the same about Smith.
     
  12. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

    9,313
    4,169
    0
    Nov 11, 2008
    It's the hips dj. Smith is a big guy and he doesn't have that swivel quickness.
    His length makes up for it though I think.
     
  13. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

    11,511
    3,069
    113
    Mar 23, 2008
    Colorado
    It's going to be okay though, Smith has been working with Deion Sanders on the tackling part........lol
     
    NaboCane likes this.
  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I have seen some reactionary speed that has me excited about the way he covers the crossing stuff...He seems to predict what break the receiver is gonna make quite well..

    Smith on OCHO, VD on Welker..
     
  15. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    75,121
    37,639
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    New York
    Well thats part of it because theres a reason you dont see a lot of big corners. Also remember Smith is a converted WR and has been playing CB for only 4 years I believe. Im sure there are things hes still adjusting to after playing WR his whole life prior to converting
     
  16. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

    31,949
    11,899
    0
    Nov 24, 2007
    I hope he "gets it" and turns his game around. But he's been playing Corner now for 3 offseasons and 2 full seasons as a pro; and he was drafted as a Corner, not a position-change and a project. And, come this preseason, there he was again—making bonehead mistakes like going for the ball instead of making the tackle on LeGarrette Blount.

    I'll tell you what I don't like: I see a guy with a very blasé attitude on the field in terms of how he carries himself. And if he was like that and nevertheless got results, then more power to him—but that's clearly not the case.

    Steve mentioned Deion, and that was funny. But it brings into the discussion that good-to-great Corners weren't always necessarily great tacklers, but they always did something else well to mitigate that; Deion and Sam Madison were two guys who never met a tackle they didn't avoid, but they were awesome talents in coverage. So you forgave them their failings.

    The fact is, Smith doesn't do anything particularly well; he has mental lapses, bites hard on fakes, is late in coverage a lot more than you'd like. But he's also a mediocre tackler, and that's the one thing you'd like him to at least be decent at, given his size.

    In fact, he's a guy without a fallback position: if he fails at Corner, given his size you'd think he would make a decent Safety—but he doesn't tackle anywhere near well enough to make that work.

    And I'm sorry, Matt, but stats on negatives are always highly subjective and unreliable. That he shows to have only 4 missed tackles last season is a very suspect stat when you actually observe him, and note all the things I've mentioned.

    All that combined is why it galls me that he doesn't have the good sense to shut the **** up until he actually does something besides draft behind Davis...who, 3 inches shorter and smaller than Smith, is a far surer tackler and lots better in coverage. And that right there is what worries me the most about the kid: I don't think he's very bright, and—like I said before—I don't think he's fully devoted to his craft.

    We saw the cautionary tale of Kory Sheets unfold over the preseason, and the ugly ending it had because Sheets, with all the physical tools you could want for what they wanted him to do, was not dedicated to his craft, and had such poor common sense that he actually made moronic tweets which showed how stupid and unmotivated he really was. I don't see Smith as being too far off that model.
     
    steveincolorado likes this.
  17. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

    27,364
    31,261
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I find much of the criticism of Smith here to be baseless. He was our best CB last year, better than Davis. He got beat less often and he missed fewer tackles. In a league where receiving TEs are increasing in importance, he's by far our best weapon against that. I think the criticism is largely based on the dropped INTs (although those are still passes defensed) and the perception of his personality not being fiery enough.
     
    Anonymous and GridIronKing34 like this.
  18. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,191
    4,187
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL
    Amazing some of the people giving Henne the benifit of the doubt is down on Sean. Yet Sean's the only one of those two that has had a successful season during the regular season. SS made me a believer last season, I was one of the biggest people against SS not to long ago.....

    Sometimes I wonder what exactly some people are watching out there
     
  19. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

    27,364
    31,261
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I mentioned the HALO effect in another thread. I have long believed that it applies to all relationships, even fan/athlete relationships. People see something they like in a player and they ignore the bad or conversely something turns them off and then they only see the bad. Very few people have the ability to recognize their own bias. I know I have worked very hard to identify my own biases for years now. They still exist, of course, but I readily admit them (most importantly, to myself) and I believe I can usually separate a good portion of the bias from my evaluations.
     
  20. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Well, we do know that SS24 is going to start, so whether he has improved or not, he will be out on the field.

    I personally like players saying things simply because there is no real downside to it, for Example Revis said he would lock down Moss, when he did not, there were no repercussion for saying he would then failing to do so.
     
  21. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

    11,511
    3,069
    113
    Mar 23, 2008
    Colorado
    If you were to cut off both of his arms, he would still be the same player. At this time, he cant catch Int's or make a wrap up tackle. It just seems that all his hits are with him diving at the legs of a ball carrier with his shoulders and yes, his teammates , have had to finish the job, even in this preseason.

    I think Smith is a below average CB at this stage of his career. Don't care what the stats say.
     
    NaboCane likes this.
  22. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

    27,364
    31,261
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    When the stats completely invalidate what I think I'm seeing, that's usually a big indication that my evaluation is not objective.
     
    steveincolorado likes this.
  23. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Disagree, he defenses a lot of passes, and a Cb can get by without being a Vontae type tackler, heck Joey Browner made multiple pro bowls by slinging receivers down instead of tackling them, he had bad shoulders, SS24, however, does have to become more consistent at whatever style of tackling he is using.

    If he is going for the ankle trip up then he needs to hit on it 99% of the time.
     
  24. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

    11,511
    3,069
    113
    Mar 23, 2008
    Colorado
    I'm just looking at his tackling style, it's not very good.
     
  25. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Yessir, it is a bit like a Wr trying to tackle a defender after an Int, they want to do something but are not all that interested in hitting them.
     
  26. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,191
    4,187
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL
    Come on man, that's just ridiculous
     
  27. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

    11,511
    3,069
    113
    Mar 23, 2008
    Colorado
    Wes Welker?
     
  28. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

    11,511
    3,069
    113
    Mar 23, 2008
    Colorado
    It's my opinion, that's all.
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    well for one, he was benched for 8 games for being a punk, so he had a successful half season, and the guy who replaced him, bottom line, cost us games..This in his 2nd year..He has not earned his respect here yet, not relative to his mouth..
     
  30. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    Willing to give SS the benefit of doubt until proven otherwise, honestly the biggest improvement on this D in stopping big plays IMHO will not necessarily be SS or VD, but rather Dansby and Burnett, a tandem that truly excites me. Hopefully Davis, Bell Dansby and Burnett have influenced Sean Smith enough to up his game and along with Odrick & JT plus Misi being in his 2nd year and improving due to mentoring from JT, I truly think the D could have a lockdown capability to keep the Pats and others from killing us with the big plays.
     
  31. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,191
    4,187
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL
    Everything you just said has to do with his attitude and nothing to do with his play, which is the only thing I'm talking about......people are complaining about his play. So your post isn't relative that
     
  32. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

    31,949
    11,899
    0
    Nov 24, 2007
    I see what I see, and you see what you see; yet, in your mind, since my perception and opinion differs from yours, it has to be based on some flaw on my part.

    The pinnacle of hubris-based arrogance.
     
    steveincolorado likes this.
  33. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

    24,217
    36,005
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    I disagree. I think he was a lot like that in his rookie year... but last year he was much more of a shoulder tackler IMO. He consistently came in to lower his shoulder and try to thump... but just had no idea how to wrap up a player. Where physicallity was an issue in his rookie year... I dont feel it was in his 2nd year. It was just horrible wrap up technique IMO...

    And to be honest... I liked what I saw in regards to that. B/c IMO... you can teach tackling technique. You cant teach physicality...
     
    Oghma likes this.
  34. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

    27,364
    31,261
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    You'll find that when the only basis for a difference in opinion is what two people see, I usually just say "I disagree". That's not the case here.

    I use stats to confirm what I think I see. When they are diametrically opposed to my perception then odds are that I'm not being objective or that there is a flaw in my analysis. Sometimes stats can deceive (correlation vs. causation). Here we have you saying he can't tackle and the stats showing he missed fewer tackles than the guy you think can tackle. You say he's not good in coverage and the stats show that he was better than the guy you think is good. In this case the stats say that your perception does not match reality. While I may often be guilty of arrogance in this case it's not hubris on my part.
     
    BlameItOnTheHenne likes this.
  35. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

    23,388
    16,296
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    Denver, CO
    God forbid Sean Smith has trouble tackling a 250 pound running back who stands 6'0" in LaGarrette Blount... He's not a linebacker for crying out loud.
     
  36. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

    31,949
    11,899
    0
    Nov 24, 2007
    He was in perfect position to wrap up without taking a hit; he went for the ball instead, whiffed, and the guy got about 30-35 more yards out of the play.

    That's a mistake you make as a rookie; this is Smith's third preseason. Why can't we expect him to get better without MB-coddling him?
     
    finyank13 likes this.
  37. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

    31,949
    11,899
    0
    Nov 24, 2007
    And I did a study conducted at The University OF MY EYES. I recommend its curriculum, as opposed to blindly following stats.
     
    steveincolorado likes this.
  38. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

    23,388
    16,296
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    Denver, CO
    If Blount coughed up the ball, people would be singing a different tune. Smith took a risk, it didn't pay off.
     
  39. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

    23,388
    16,296
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    Denver, CO
    Rafael is not someone who blindly follow stats. There's a difference between using stats to make your point and using stats to confirm your point.
     
  40. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

    31,949
    11,899
    0
    Nov 24, 2007
    Taking that risk is not up to him. You can bet that none of his coaches...in fact no coach in the NFL would recommend the course of action Smith took on that play. Every tenet of sound, fundamental football says that you wrap up the tackle first and everything else you want to try comes after.

    My point is that Smith played the position in college and now has had three offseasons to learn his position in the pros, and he still makes mental errors which cost his team big. And you can't even say that this play was an anomaly; how many times did you see Smith look bad on a play just this preseason, his third? And I don't mean simply not making the play...I mean look bad; lost, clueless.

    Like a guy who isn't paying attention.
     

Share This Page