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Orton Thursday Update

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. Kanye West

    Kanye West 'Parcells' Guy

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    Can't read english? I was being sarcastic
     
  2. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    That ain't any English I know.
     
  3. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    [​IMG]

    Dude, I don't know...
     
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  4. nyuk nyuk

    nyuk nyuk New Member

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    A couple tweets from this AM's Broncos practice. Sounds like Tebow is a bit frustrated:

    "Tebow just threw a pick to unnamed Bronco DB and after the play was dead, in act of defiance, he swatted the ball from DB's hands."

    "Regarding the Tebow-Orton battle: this is the first time I can recall the backup QB looking over his shoulder at the starting QB."
     
  5. nyuk nyuk

    nyuk nyuk New Member

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    If you want to see some real gems, go to drunkathlete.com

    Here's a nice animation that I can't claim is my own:

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    i think this deal is dead, i read orton wants to stay put, so it has to be questioned if he would really give his all
     
  7. nyuk nyuk

    nyuk nyuk New Member

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    Seppuku.
     
  8. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    yeah you too
     
  9. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

     
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Plug your ears, close your eyes because I'm about to say something that could be construed as negative.

    The Dolphins are playing a dangerous game. I may be ambivalent about Kyle Orton, but it's clear they want him. They stared down the Broncos until the Kolb deal was done, and I honestly think that may have blown up in their face. Yeah, the Kolb deal left one less suitor for Orton. But it also set a price tag, a RIDICULOUS one, for a guy that has not even played half as well as Kyle Orton so far in his career. The Dolphins may have been thinking it would weaken the Broncos' stance on Orton, but it may have done the opposite. In the mean time, they're practicing, and every day they practice is another day that Kyle Orton shows that he's the superior quarterback to Tim Tebow. Yeah, an odd fancy may have taken hold of Josh McDaniels (now ousted) when they took Tebow in the 1st round, but he's gone and in his heart of hearts John Elway does not like Tim Tebow. And in his heart of hearts, I think John Fox knows which guy is the better quarterback. Every day that Orton goes out there and practices is another blow to their resolve to trade him and go with Tim Tebow. That's the reality.

    Now, whether you feel this is or is not a symptom of a problem that has persisted since these guys first took over the team, being so afraid of the overpay/overdraft/valuation that they don't get who they really want and end up settling a lot...well, that's up to all of you to determine. I won't say anything about it.
     
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  11. Kanye West

    Kanye West 'Parcells' Guy

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    Is your a$$ of the $h!t that just came out of your mouth? What about kyle orton is mediocr. Sorry bro I'm on my phones keypad thing didn't know this was english would of brought a pen and some paper
     
  12. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    I think you just did ;)
     
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  13. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    In my experience, how a QB does on 3rd down and when pressured is/are the best indicator(s) of whether they have the potential to be a franchise guy. If they can't perform in those situations then at best they will most likely be nothing more than a guy who who could put up numbers in a system.
     
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  14. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    No....no doubt you could have hit it on the head. What I will say....is in my opinion....even if it unfolds like u said....it was the prudent way to go about trying to land Orton. Anything close to what Denver wanted was not smart..IMO.
     
  15. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I don't see a problem with how they're negotiating in this instance. There's a difference between believing someone is the guy and thinking he might be a slight short-term upgrade. I think it's very possible that they see Orton as a stop-gap and that he will appease the fan base for a bit. If the contract really is the hurdle then it's probably b/c they don't want to pay him as the guy when they don't believe he is.
     
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  16. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Hopefully Miami has determined what Orton's value is to them and if they don't get him at that price , or very close to it , then they won't have non buyers remorse as it were.

    To me it sounds like they like him , want him , but at their price , and I agree if that is the stance they decided upon.
     
  17. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    To add my 2 cents: I think that Orton was plan B. I think they really, really wanted Carson Palmer. I think they counted on Mike Brown eventually giving in. I think they only zeroed in on Orton when it became apparent that Mike Brown wouldn't. I think they got into this whole situation prepared to shell out a 2nd or 3rd for Palmer and are now faced with shelling the same out for Orton who's a worse QB in their mind. I think their plan was flawed from the getgo and they're now caught between a rock and a hard place.

    That's what I think anyway.
     
  18. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    I agree. I don't understand how some people can't grasp that even though they might like Orton as that short-term upgrade, but they aren't going to overpay.

    They aren't blowing anything by passing on an over-priced QB.

    Now let's cut some fat, spend some caysh and let DEN sweat.
     
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  19. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I think plan A was Christian Ponder, when that fell through, they then moved onto the available Qb's.

    Twitter chucklehead is hearing a #4 and Starks for Orton, I do not put much stock into that though.
     
  20. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Denver isn't sweating. Yes, they don't want to pay Orton the kind of money he's contracted to get, but the season only just started, training camps begin, quarterbacks will get hurt. They're in no hurry. They'll get a fair compensation eventually. And meanwhile, Orton takes snaps with the first unit (not exactly the kind of thing you're doing when you absolutely need to get rid of the guy in a shortened offseason and with your young QB needing all the reps he can get), possibly convincing their staff that he might just be the best option for yet another season. No, Denver isn't sweating.
     
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  21. HeelsnPhins

    HeelsnPhins Member

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    The problem is that there is no great alternative to plan A. If the above was true, there just isn't anyone that I would be willing to pay true/inflated market value out there as an alternative to waiting it out on Palmer. Worst case scenario, nothing pans out, we give Henne his shot this season, and go into a loaded QB draft for the long term answer. I think they were caught between a rock and a hard place (as far as this season is concerned) from the get-go.
     
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  22. nyuk nyuk

    nyuk nyuk New Member

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    Some Broncos fans were asking for Starks. Who knows. I don't know the guy.
     
  23. nyuk nyuk

    nyuk nyuk New Member

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    I wouldn't say the FO is sweating, however I think they'd have to deal with a fan revolt not counting team chemistry problems if he stays.
     
  24. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    All I'm saying is, if you're desperate to get rid of the guy, you don't give him first unit reps in a shortened offseason without any OTAs and minicamps when you want a particularly raw 2nd year player to take over. Not even to stick your tongue out.
     
  25. nyuk nyuk

    nyuk nyuk New Member

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    And yet again in camp, Orton is kicking Tebow's butt.
     
  26. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Which is why you won't have a chemnistry problem. Veterans want the best guy to play, period. And as for the fan revolt, if Orton wins games, the fans will be happy.
     
  27. Kanye West

    Kanye West 'Parcells' Guy

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    Is you *** jealous of the **** that comes out of your mouth.

    Fail on my part
     
  28. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    I wouldn't be happy with it either, although considering Starks is in the last year of his contract it wouldn't come as a total shock.
     
  29. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Last year or no last year, here's the deal: Randy Starks, at 27, is one of the top 3-4 ends in the business and should command at the very least a 3rd round selection on his own. And no, I wouldn't trade him for that, either. I would re-sign the guy for pretty much whatever money he's asking, because he's that good.
     
  30. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    If Denver wants Starks then yes this deal is completely dead in the water. Denver would be paying us a 3rd and Orton plus a player to get Starks. Quite frankly Starks is worth a 2nd and Orton straight up if not a bit more.
     
  31. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    We do have money to operate.
    My gut reaction to this story is it's bullshizzle.

    Jets were at the cap and still managed to sign Santonio and still be one of the major players in the running for the most expensive FA avail.
    So for there to be anyone saying we can't afford to sign Orton when we were in much better cap shape is horse drivel IMO.

    I'm not even a fan of trading for Orton based on what I feel were going to end up giving to Denver for him but I still call BS on this line.
     
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  32. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    damn it I really hate to say it but your right and if other teams can see Orton as a average qb then whycant the fins management see this too?

    you can mark this down withthin 3 years Miami will still be at the bottom of the afc east unless they get a guy like Vince young hell I would rather have Gus Frerotte back then some of these unknowns but that is me hurting for the dolphins to start getting better publicity .
     
  33. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    The Jets back-load their contracts to the extreme. That's why they were able to sign Holmes.
     
  34. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

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    Does Elway gave final say in players? If so, I can Elway standing his ground on this one. Orton is the first big name that he has to deal with and maybe he's trying to set a tone for the rest of the league for the future????
     
  35. Kanye West

    Kanye West 'Parcells' Guy

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    Dolphins are doing nothing. They need to get Orton. If it is for Orton and Starks then I don't know. 3rd and a 4th for Orton do it
     
  36. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    I'm not advocating that we pick up VY so much as advocating that Orton is just another QB... He's a nice guy, a somewhat solid player but a difference maker he is not. I equate him to Jay Fiedler....he was a nice guy, somewhat solid QB, but not a difference maker... I see Orton as a WYSIWYG. Is that what you want from Sparano and Ireland ?? Another 2nd round bust of a QB ?? No thank you.

    I will say this, VY may, if he can get over himself, may have more upside than Orton. That said, I'll take Orton and certain mediocrity from the position over the "P" of VY.

    My opinion is still that we improve the folks around Henne and go from there. The interior OL has been sh!t for two seasons. The WR group has a #1 and a slot guy, but where is the speed guy ?? The TEs are journeymen at best. No speed there either. What did we have for return guys last season ?? For the resilience that the D showed in the first half of the season, they gave it away in the second half of the season. Sure, much of that was growing pains, but the young guys we've plugged in the last two seasons (SS, Davis, Misi, Merling, Odrick, Jerry) need to show they are big time now. Will that happen ?? I think the re-signing of McD shows what they think of Merling.

    I want a good QB but I don't think Orton is that guy ?? Why would both of his previous teams be letting him go if he were more than just another QB ???
     
  37. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Kyle Orton is so much better than Vince Young it isn't funny. Kyle Orton has for the last two years run a full, honest to goodness NFL offense resting mostly on his back. Vince Young gets thrown in out of exasperation for a couple weeks the last couple years and the best he's managed is to not completely **** the bed as a game manager rarely throwing more than 20 passes a game.

    If Kyle Orton is just another QB then Vince Young isn't a QB.
     
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  38. bran

    bran Senior Member

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    vince young is a head case the guy has all the potential in the world but if you have to keep having checkups from the neck up he will never live up to that potential. i would much rather have orton the guy can get the ball to bess and marshall and help get our offense going.
     
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  39. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    If you want to call a 98.6 passer rating at 60% completion not ****ting the bed, then you must live in a world of ****...
     
  40. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He had a single game with more than 200 passing yards. In his 3 games with more than 20 attempts, 2 of them he completed less than 50% of his passes. People complain about how conservative the offense is now, what happens when you've actually, you know, got to run the ball more often than you pass because you can't trust Vince Young to take more snaps than a QB from the 1970's?
     

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