The Broncos and Seahawks used first and second round picks respectively on QBs last year. The Broncos don't have the resources to keep a $9M QB and a QB that was a first round pick last season. There is nothing that needs to sink in, this type of thing is pretty common in the NFL. New coaches regularly get rid of good QBs in favor of younger guys that haven't proven anything. Regardless, to answer your question as to why we would want any parts of veteran QBs that are being jettisoned, its really simple. We only have 1 QB currently under contract. Not only would it make sense, but I think it might be a necessity I'm not sure when this topic became about me, but your personal attack isn't based in reality.
They have to get some quality competition for Henne! A QB that is capable of beating Henne for the starters job. Giving up too much would be terrible but for a 3rd rounder or less would be good. Or for a player....
I hear ya. And under normal circumstances I'd agree. But with the condensed offseason I don't know if a QB battle/controversy is what we need right now. I'm more in favor of a crash course to immerse Henne in the offense, getting Daboll's install complete, solidifying the OL around Pouncey, and so many other things that we'll be hard pressed to do with the limited number of practices we'll have before the season begins. A true QB competition revolves around both guys getting a similar number of reps and runs the risk of us starting the season w/ a muddied QB picture, no clear winner and two guys who are kinda-ready but 0 guys who are ready-ready. Add in that a trade could cost us the ammo we may need to trade up for get an elite prospect in next year's draft. Also, I don't see any QBs who are likely to change our fortunes becoming available. I see some guys who might be a little better or a little worse, but no one who's going to take us to another level.
I like Orton a lot as a quick fix (if cheap enough) considering I feel like our team is very few pieces away from being serious contenders... IMO he would absolutely beat out henne for the starting job. Despite his slight inconsistency he is a guy that I think will week to week give us a chance to win and keep us in the game all 4 quarters, something henne failed to do more times then i can count. Additionally, Orton is a guy who, from time to time, can nearly single handedly lead a team to a victory and undoubtedly be an outright game MVP like he did in the the first chiefs game above... something henne has never done and i dont feel like he is the guy that CAN do that.
It's a shame we spent so damn long arguing about Chad Henne and the Dolphins look like they're going to make that all irrelevant within hours of the official start of free agency.
Even if we traded for Orton, I could still see Henne going into the season as the starter, due to his familiarity with the offense. Though being on a short leash, especially from the Bye week on.
Not a bad point at all but lets also not forget that Sparano, and Ireland are on a short leash themselves, and especially Sparano. They may not be willing to take a chance on Henne for more than a few games and will want that Qb with some quality experience
I'd say that's a safe assessment, per football. In my honest opinion, you gotta have a QB who has a killer instinct...a balls to the wall kinda guy. Can't have a "not to lose, play it safe QB". That works if your ground game is a plus, but if things spiral the team is in trouble(last year). I expect Henne to take full advantage of what this off season has given him. It might have been a blessing in disguise...and I fully believe this. Connecting more with the players, orchestrating workouts, showing leadership skills, and re-establishing a relationship with Marshall could go a long way. I believe! That is unless they bring in someone to really compete with Henne real soon...that would throw a wrench in things. We'll see here shortly...
I guess Henne can't improve according to some, I still think his third year will be better and I don't see the other QBs as a significant improvement over what we have. Only Palmer would make me happy otherwise you ride Henne.
I think Ross' failed attempt to remove Sparano is the big issue here. Sparano knows he's probably on the hot seat here, so the issue for him becomes "get me a QB". Bringing Orton here may bring us a win or two more, and a few better stat lines here and there, but at the end of the day its not a move that gets us to the big game. It's a move to me, that is simply being pulled off to improve the record, show progress, and buy our staff some more time with their jobs. I don't see it as a pushing the team over the hump kind of move. If he was a free agent, I'd say do it, in a heartbeat. To give up some picks, potentially as high as a third, I'm 100% against it. A 4th I'd give it strong consideration, a 5th and I'd do it in a heartbeat as well. If we were talking about a better QB than Orton here, I wouldn't be so opposed, I'm sure in ways he's better at this point than Henne, but I think at this point too we've already seen as much as were ever going to see from Kyle Orton as an NFL QB. Personally, I still don't think we've seen all there is to see with Chad Henne. That being said though, I understand the situation the regime is in, I just hope we don't give up too much, for a marginal improvement at the position. Maybe if I watch some more of Orton's play I'll warm up to the idea more, right now it just doesn't sit well if it's a 3rd we have to give up.
I think people tend to overrate draft selections, especially when it comes to impact. It's certainly nice to have a full arsenal and then some, but the truth of the matter is that a 3rd round selection (and to a degree even a 2nd round selection) rarely has the impact that an above average QB play and production brings to the table. Think of it this way: If we had Orton's 2009 and 2010 production last season, would you rather have John Jerry instead? Fact is, if Orton can repeat his production from the last two seasons, this team becomes an instant contender; and you need only look to New York in order to see how fast that can spell Superbowl contention. Most 3rd or 2nd round players never reach close to the impact that an improved QB play and production will yield - even if we're only going from sub-average to above-average. Yes, losing a 3rd round selection will limit your options in the draft. Problem is, sticking with the QB production we got in the last two seasons, that limits your ability to actually win on the bloody field.
I'm not a fan of adding Orton, and don't see much of an upgrade, if any. I took a look at PFF's grades compared to Henne. Last year, Orton graded out at 22.5 as a passer, Henne was at 21. In 09, Orton graded out at 18, and Henne was at 22. With Da Bears in 08, Orton was graded at a 7. Some are not fans of PFF but, they do look at every play by every player, and consider who did what before placing credit or blame. To me, this does matter. Orton has not made the mistakes Henne did last season but, there are so many things to consider, as we all have done here. He is also two years older and will cost a lot. He is due $9M this year. I pass.
If i'm not mistaken the Bears let Orton go without compensation, his play improved in Denver, so maybe the the coaching had something to do with it, I don't think Henne's coaching helped at all. For a third I do it not a second.
Is there a better option than Orton this season? I dunno. Considering however, who we have on our team (Brandon Marshall) and the fact Orton know how to get beast the ball (22 catches in a game! SAY WHAT!?) I think it could be a good match. If anything, it'll push Henne in camp and make him better? It's a win-win IMO
Good thing Orton is already developed. Otherwise, we'd have the same cluster**** that we had last season with a different young quarterback. Forgive the language but had to be said to get point across.
I think if we traded for Orton and then brought in a proven running back (Bradshaw), we would have the potential to win the division... could use an interior lineman too though.
IF we make the trade, and Orton is not the starter, we waste a ton of money which could be used elsewhere. JMO
There is no forgiving that language. Don't you know that football fans never even use the word damn, while sipping tea and talking about the game. If your post is not deleted, and you are not banned for life. I must find a new site to post on. LMAO!!!
I don't think its out of the realm of possibility for Henne to beat out Orton in a competition. Familiarity with the players, offensive scheme, this coaching staff drafted him etc
If this trade happens, I'd be surprised if there's a competition. If there is one, it may be a 'slanted competition'. IMO.
Sounds like most of us agree on what our situation is: Orton is a slight upgrade but not enough to make us serious contenders. My question would be, how much of this is "we want Orton" and how much of it is "we don't want Henne"? I ask b/c if Henne shows up for year 7 of his career w/ the same resume as Orton has now then IMO we'd be screaming for the front office to do what Denver is reportedly doing, looking for some desperate team to ship him to while we hitch our wagon to someone w/ more upside. We're asking for a QB who took 4 years and a good OC to start playing well to come in an replace our homegrown product who hasn't even been given 4 years or a good OC yet. If we were some juggernaut sqaud who just needed a slight upgrade at QB to become contenders, then fine, go for it. But we're not. Our success this season will not depend on the QB, IMO we pretty much know what we're going to get a that position: average play or something close to it. Instead, our success will depend on the improvement of Wake, Misi, Vontae, Sean, Clemons, Soliai, Langford, Odrick, etc. Can Will Allen & Crowder give us a healthy season? Can Dansby make more splash plays? Can the OL rebound after last year? Will the running game return? Can the rookies step in and contribute early on? How will Daboll's arrival affect the offense, can he get his guys on the same page in time? Will Brandon Marshall's offseason issues affect his play? Has Henne finally earned the respect and confidence of his teammates? Lastly, can we afford to trade away draft picks and still have a shot at Luck, Barkley or Jones in 2012?
He scheduled to make 9 millie this season. And we'll probably have to outbid some combination of Seattle, Arizona, Minnesota & Tennessee (teams w/ worse QBs than Henne) in order to get him. It's a point that I don't think is given enough consideration.
Like they wouldn't restructure that contract. Minnesota & Tennessee just spent top 10 picks on quarterbacks, they won't be breaking the bank for a quarterback. I doubt the competition will be as stiff as you're expecting.
Arizona's about to get a QB anyways. Only team that would possibly get in the way would be Seattle who has been linked to Palmer all off-season.
I really don't see that happening. As for Henne knowing the offense better, again I have to emphasize that both Brian Daboll and Josh McDaniels were guys that didn't just pass through New England but were kind of RAISED there. They were both Graduate Assistants at Michigan State together under Nick Saban in 1999, and both went to the Patriots straight from MSU (Daboll in 2000, McDaniels in 2001). Daboll coached at New England for 7 years before he left to be the Jets' QBs Coach. McDaniels stayed at New England for 8 years before leaving for Denver. These guys have shared roots and the chances are very good that the concepts and terminology of their offense are similar, if not identical. That doesn't mean they call plays the same way, you can be more or less 'aggressive' so to speak while still operating the same concepts and language. All Henne has done is basically work by himself, maybe with a playbook, maybe not. He hasn't had much (if any) teaching or coaching in the offense. They seemed like they started to do that and then they got caught (Henne blabbed) so they stopped. I think it's very likely that Kyle Orton having studied two years under McDaniels will have a firmer grasp of what Daboll is doing than Chad Henne. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's a factor in why they're pursuing Orton.
Amen. The only reason I would say no to giving a 2nd rounder though is because the absence of a 2nd rounder is the reason most people give for why Miami couldn't move up and grab a QB this year, and indeed you look at the price the Jags paid to move up for Gabbert and it suggests they're right. I don't want to be handcuffed like that again in 2012.
I think that is what will happen. They can't afford to just shelf Henne without competition. There will be a competition. But Henne won't win it. If it's close, it'll go to Orton. If it's not close...bad sign.
Hasselbeck is absolutely the kind of guy they'd like but I'm just surprised he's not shuttled off straight to the Titans.
If Hasselbeck is interested in winning, we might actually be a better option than the titans. Hasselbeck is a guy I like and he clearly would not stand in the way of first rounder next year. I'd rather do that then trade picks for Orton
The problem being that Hasselbeck had his last decent season four (!) years ago. In fact, one might conceivably argue that Henne had a better season in 2010 than Hasselbeck had at any time after 2007. Sure, he's cheap, but I'm afraid you'll get exactly what you bargained for.
Who is "they"? And how are "they" going to get a guy who's making 9 millie to take a serious pay cut? IIRC he's on the last year of his deal, there's nothing to restructure. I suppose they could extend his contract, which would just about end Henne's career in Miami and severely hamper us in terms of getting an elite prospect in the draft next year. We're going to sacrifice/risk all of that for Kyle Orton? I sure hope not. I'd rather roll the dice on Henne this year and go all in for Luck or Barkley next year if he doesn't pan out. At least we'd be giving ourselves a chance at a franchise QB.
The problem being that you'd prolly be looking for a new job before you had the chance to go all anything ...
Steve Young (who shares an agent with Hasselbeck) said on ESPN last night that Hasselbeck was headed to SF where I kind of figured he may land. That said, ideally I want him competing with Henne for the job
