NFL.com's Bucky Brooks: Change in offensive philosophy could be difference for Henne

Can these guys just sign the CBA already?

 

HS football teams do it quite a bit considering how many of them are TFS clients.

 

He was Dutch first.

 

The Force is not quite with them. A GOOD, SWIFT, kick in the *** would work, My "master."

 

I give up. You have no idea how much you know, which is half of what I do. JK/LOL

 

That was said in a weaker moment with an audience, NEVER to be repeated. JK/LOL

 

I understand your point, but if your arguing that playing and/or coaching the game of football is irrelevant to one's knowledge of the game then I totally disagree. And I'll stick by my assertion that anyone who has never heard an OL make a protection call has never played (or coached) the game. If the discussion is about protections and someone doesn't understand that OL make protection calls, then that person doesn't understand what he's talking about. I could've worded it differently, but String gives me the business all the time and I return the favor when appropriate, that's how we do.

 

Manning will be one Qb that loves to beat the blitz but I'm sure if he's gotten knocked on his butt a few times from a blitz, he'll point it out, make it a hot route or call a run.

Usually we see Qb's, Centers and sometimes Rb's pointing out the Mike Lb. Take Tom Brady for an example. He is a crafty one. He'll act like he's pointing out the Mike while he's identifying the hot route thru calls. Stuff like that happens all the time. But we know Brady hates getting hit too much so he is a better example in that he will move his Slot Wr, or a TE to the side of a possible blitz...

 

OK but how many times have we seen someone on the line point to the Mike and then see him chirping out some words? Usually its the Center. If someone who's never played pays attention to what happens to the entire play, he or she can determain that the lineman was calling his lines protections. It might take someone a while to get whats going on but if they really are into it and want to figure it out they can.

 

Sorry man, but that's plain ******ed. You're basically saying that practical, hands on experience means nothing. Next you'll say that going to war has nothing to do w/ understanding combat. Or that going to law school has nothing to do w/ understanding court proceedings. Is it possible to learn the game w/o playing? Absolutely. But to say that playing has no bearing on a person's ability to understand the game, takes it a way to far IMO.

 

I totally agree. But if that same person had played H.S. or above level football then he'd know what the center was doing, why he was doing it, and even some of the calls the Center might be making. I was never an OL but I remember hearing, BOB, FAN, TOUGH calls. I remember hearing about this or that technique and who was supposed to block them, the term "set-shuffle-double", the technique used on a draw play, is permanently seared into my brain. None of these terms were ever directed at me, I just heard them so many times (HC was an ex OL coach) that eventually they started to make a little sense. There are countless other nuances that are hard to pick up on just from watching or studying the game, but I don't want to get any further off topic.

 

You played QB and you never heard a Center call a protection? I find that hard to believe.

And Bill Gates was a college drop out. What's your point? That Haley skipped learning from professionals and doesn't know that OL are responsible for making protection calls? I doubt it. If you want to argue that playing experience isn't absolutely, have that argument w/ someone else b/c I never said or implied it.

Actually, what's condescending is the notion that the hundreds, perhaps thousands, of hours of playing, practicing, film study, hands on experience gained as a football player is irrelevant to understanding the game.

Good for you.

 

Na, it's not ******ed at all! Playing does not have any bearing on it. None! Now if a person who played is a fairly smart individual it can give him a leg up but my point is that someone who's never played organized football can absolutely figure out what's going on and learn it! Even learn it better than a player. Absolutely 100 percent possitively!

 

Of course a person who's played, backed up, sat thru meetings, or whatever, he can have an edge. But if an individual has the smarts, and the drive to do so, he can do many things to learn exactly what a player has learned. There are so many books out there now, and things like coaches camps, players camps, youtube, or a small purchase can get him plenty enough info to learn....

Former Dolphins kicking coach Doug Blevins is a decent example of that. Having been born with Cerebral Palsy, he could only dream of actually playing in a game but he studied, and finally got a gig and worked his way up to be a high school assistant.

 

Clever little turnabout on your part. You've gone from outright chiding someone and condescending to them because you think they never played high school football before and "that explains a lot", to playing the victim and pretending people are saying that playing high school football doesn't give anyone knowledge of the sport.

Naturally, I'm not sure anyone's going to buy that.

 

Never said him coaching it is not relevant to his knowledge.

Yeah.

I don't see why its hard to believe when its usually built in and on wristbands. Not every coach gives his players that much responsibility. There are Centers out there who have issues snapping and then getting their head up to block, let alone call protections.

 

Again, I agree. You dont have to play football in order to understand, I never said that. My point is that playing/coaching the game gives you a type of hands on, practical experience that you cant get from anywhere else. One person said he NEVER heard an OL give a protection call, I commented that he'd never played football then. I didnt say he didnt know b/c he never played or that you could only learn about OL calling protections from playing. Kinda started a stir w/ that, wasn't meaning to, but Oh well....

 

A better username that would suit you is: YAIUSEDTOPLAYHIGHSCHOOLFOOTBALLSONOWICANACTLIKEAJOHNSON

 

The discussion seems to have moved away from protections and who calls them, to an imaginary argument that I never made in the first place. Not that I mind, any time we can take a break from the endless Henne bashing I'm good with it.

 

Guys, can we please try to haul this thread in and bring it back on topic? This debate over football knowledge has led to more and more pot shots and posts that are dangerously close to violating TOS.

 

I'll have to see if that one's available.

 

.....

 

Thought this post was a bit lost in the thread but important enough to read and point out. The Bill Walsh offense or whatever someone wants to call it is not what is being used completely by his assistants/coaches in todays game. Some of it is but there's been a lot of spinning to it. The guy who has stayed truest to the Walsh offense has been Mike Holmgren. Outside of him, everyone has really spun it. Andy Reid's changed a lot of it. Shanahan's changed it. The Walsh offense had no 7 step drop, so Shanahan added that. Gruden changed it. Mike McCarthy's changed a lot of it, though his offense last year seemed to incorporate the extension of the run game through passing quite a bit more than the other Walsh offense guys.

 

I am talking about people who played COLLEGE football, not HS. And yes, I think people who played College and NFL know more than people who never played or just hs

Call that condescending or whatever, but its the blunt truth which I believe in. Hence I said that people dont understand the protection calls or why its made and people trying to argue about it not being about the depth of drop and what not.

 

Just one last thing about this. Remember that you once told me that it was obvious that I never played the game? I took that in stride but I've seen you say it a couple of times to other so maybe I came to his defense a little but I do think I made some decent points here about this with you. I just think it a tad harsh to say to someone here that they obviously have not played the game in an organized league beyond pop warner.

For the record, I played football at South Ridge Senior High School, here in Miami. It only lasted a short time because at that time I was being paid to ride a skateboard professionally by Dog Town Skateboards. So Coach Don Soldinger told me I could no longer play once he found out. He then worked it out with the school so that I could start work release to get me out early from school, and that I could assist his secondary coach with the teams secondary if I agreed to. I learned a ton of football from him, and in case you're not sure who he is, he is the former Rb's and ST's coach for the University of Miami. Not that it deserves any sort of credit or to justify anything.

I am just someone who's had a passion for football since 1970 and I think I can hold my own with almost any football related conversation. I'm also sure that I could use to learn more.

I've also seen some of the people here grow from wanting to learn to being pretty darn good with breaking down some aspects of the game and a few of them grow to know more than myself.

So by all means, you don't have to commend them but with all due respect, if they're being respectful to you, don't try to bring them down by saying they could not possibly know what they're talking about since, to you, they obviously did not play. You were wrong about me so one never knows. You're obviously not a football dummy, or a dummy at all. I would say that the majority of your posts, or threads here are very well thought, well planned, explained and well written. You may know tons more than I and, if so, that's great. I'm not looking to be king of the football message boards. I just like to spend time here, help if I can, argue and debate as respectfully as I can, make some friends, try not to make too many enemies, and have some good clean fun.

I do like having someone such as yourself to disagree with though. These message boards would be boring if we all agreed on every single thing. So it's great to see people who are not afraid to stand up and disagree with someone else's opinion and while doing so, bringing a good, great or decent opinion, as to why, along with him....

 

Why do I get the feeling that nearly the entire room rolled there eyes when they read this or will when they do?

I am glad though, that you strongly belive in it. That part is not meant to be one bit of a smart assed answer either but I do strongly disagree.

 

Sorry I did not read this before my reply to GM. I'm done. Feel free to delete my last two or I'll do it if you want...

 

Agree. It has become one big sausage party. Some are searching for an extension.
Good stuff here but damn everyone wants to be the King of Football.......

 

Wrong Ed O'Neil. The Ed O'Neill who played Al Bundy went to Youngstown State and actually went to training camp as a UDFA with the Steelers. The Penn State Ed O'Neil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_O'Neil

The Al Bundy one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_O'Neill

 

Tsk tsk tsk, A Penn State alumni should know his fellow alumni better than this.

 

lol, the Fiji house even has a picture of him up. Thats what always stuck out in my mind.

And shouldn't you be chasing some little tight body at this time in the morning? Thanks for the correction though.

 

Looking a little more closely at instances where the Dolphins kept way too many in to block way too few...versus instances where we had everyone out...it makes me wonder if the coaches were OK with the phenomenon just because Chad Henne looks indecisive and panicky when he's got too many receiving options out on routes. Things are simpler when you've only got three guys out there running routes. Less pressure on the QB to have a pre-snap feel for the best way to attack the defense.

 

Just thought I'd point out the obvious here, sending 3 receivers into the route makes it simple for the defense as well. Chad Henne looks indecisive when his initial reads break down and he has no outlet receiver to get rid of the ball to, most "non scrambling" QBs tend to look the same way in that spot. I'm also wondering if you've considered the possibility that more guys were left in to block b/c our OL struggled in protection, especially up the middle. In Week 1 alone there were at least 3 instances where Henne faced an unblocked defender in his face despite using "extra blockers", including the big 3rd down before the 2 minute warning. Buffalo is one of the worst pass rushing units n the league, so perhaps it was a little unnerving to see them punch holes in the protection so often. Also, when you're working w/ a group of possession WRs, you have to give them time to work down field if you're going to generate any semblance of a down field passing game. That means more play action, more 7 step drops, and yes, more pass protection. Which of these was the biggest factor? Who knows? But it'd be nice to (objectively) discuss some of the possible factors w/o zeroing in on the QB for everything.

 

as a group, last year, the group did not have the skillsets to threaten the deep part of the field, Marshall couldn't get deep, Bess can't get deep, fasano, no, our running backs?, no, Hartline, a little bit..As a Qb, Henne has the arm to do anything he wants to do in the deep part of the field with exceptional arm strength, so I feel pretty confident that his poor deep stats, can be improved with better deep skillsets, which in our case, a faster more explosive Brandon Marshall, an H-back that can get down the seam, a flat out speedster, that has instincts, off the charts athleticism, and who will attack the ball, and a better coordinator that will have the ability to work every part of the field, Which he loves to do actually.

 

Years ago, I made the wrong assumption about Ed O'Neill too. I remembered Ed O'Neil from when he played at Penn St, and thought Al Bundy was him. So I looked into it further. Somewhere at home I got an old copy of Street and Smith's NFL Yearbook for the year O'Neill was a rookie with the Steelers and it lists him on their early roster. I think Ed O'Neill is a brilliant actor and his most well known role of Al Bundy doesn't begin to display his complete talent as an actor. A few years ago he was in an HBO series called John From Cincinnati, which I liked a lot. He is a favorite of David Milch and was originally going to play Al Swearengen on Deadwood, but for some reason that idea didn't happen and Milch cast Ian McShane who was ideal in that part. I read somewhere that had O'Neill gotten the role of Swearengen that the series would have lasted longer than 3 years, but it didn't say why it would have. Could have been something contractual with McShane, but that'a only a guess.

 

No disagreement here. Or from Jeff Ireland in the draft...Still waiting on FA so sign that "factor back" as Merril Hoge would say, but I think Clay and Gates have skillsets that we were sorely missing last year. I get the feeling that 2nd/3rd string reps are going to be in short supply once camp starts as the coaches cram to get the 1st stringers ready, so how much the rookies give us this year will depend on how quickly they catch on and impress the coaches w/ their limited opportunities.

 

This thread reminds me of this. Though, we didn't really attack downfield last year, despite sending guys on vertical stretches (mainly used as clearouts IMO).

 

Ugh, don't remind me. In Henning's defense, we didn't have any way to consistently threaten the defense deep. The problem IMO was that you've got to at least keep the D honest, and I don't think we did a good job of that.

 

Funny thing was, even though Ginn didn't do much on the field, he still forced teams to double him or allocate coverage deep.

In the playoff game against the Ravens they spent a lot of time doubling and bracketing Ginn, they could've cared less about anyone else we had out there, but his speed they always seemed to have someone helping to cover him down the field.

We missed that speed last year. Lets hope Edmund Gates can do the job.

 

They didn't control the seam. That was the teams biggest issue in terms of vertical stretches IMO. They could've controlled the seam with Brandon Marshall but they didn't.