NFL.com's Bucky Brooks: Change in offensive philosophy could be difference for Henne

Henne needs to do a better job of finding passing lanes, period. But I agree that varying his launch point and depth will help keep the pass rushers off of him and out of his lanes. Instead of rushing to a predetermined spot where they know Henne will be, defenders will have to locate him and then try to get there. That helps keep the DL on their toes, it also puts doubt into the minds of the secondary, they wont be able to key in on certain routes the way they did last year. .

 

I think it is actually you who does not get it!! Surely you jest to think that all this happens ahead of time on EVERY PLAY? Or that I don't actually know that a shotgun, or a 3 step drop will, in most cases, require less protectors!

I know exactly what I'm seeing, and I actually do get it. The Qb DOES call for extra protections, and he absolutely will bring his TE to the other side of the LOS to get him in front of a possible blitz and of course the Rb or that TE I just mentioned COULD HAVE the option to release! In most cases! But what I questioned was that you stated that extra blockers are not called because of extra pass rushers, or blitzers. Saying it like it just does not happen. That's dead *** wrong!

 

Thank you very much!!

 

Agreed, and I think that's something that comes with time. Guys in college get away with not developing that skill a lot more than they do in the NFL. Henne should be watching tape of Drew Brees every night before bed.

 

....you can just stop while your at it.

The QB doesn't locate the extra blitzer and say "Now I must keep another blocker in for him!"

It doesn't work that way. Maybe in Madden and in the world of statistics, but not in the actual game.

 

Obviously, but PFF doesn't keep that option on plays accounted for.

 

No it's you that needs to stop!

No one said he does it all the time but if you think he absolutely NEVER does, which is what you stated, then you're fooling yourself. But you're not fooling me. I could give a damn about Maden either. I have not played that game since the FIRST edition. So save that.......

 

I don't see why him playing or not playing football is relevant. I never played football but I've coached it. He is wrong in his post about the bold that you point out but it doesn't mean that he's clueless about it, as you seem to imply.

 

Playing has absolutely nothing to do with being able to understand it..

 

True but damn honestly as an older guy I have this dream where I am suiting up as a HS football player. LB or Safety didn't matter. I was there.
Ready to hit someone then I wake up.
That is not fair.

 

LOL, well at least I got to hit them for a little while but back in those days, I could actually keep up with most people too and being 5-10 was good for a Wr in High School

 

lol Yo I like the new angle, but her face makes me think I already dirtied my screen.

 

I think the difference is somewhere in between. The QB calls protections, and he may call for more pass protectors if he sees a blitz look. But that is only one of several options. He could also slide his existing protection without using an extra blocker, call for a hot route, or audible to a pre-determined blitz beater. I don't know the extent to which Henne did any of those things, or the extent to which he was coached to them.

If Henning sent in a play where there are supposed to be 5 guys in the pattern, could Henne veto that and keep 7 in w/o changing the entire play? Could Henne send extra guys into the pattern when Henne's play called for mass protect? Under what circumstances was he taught to change protections and did he adhere to those instructions? There are so many unknowns that IMO any attempt to assign blame is more of the same anti Henne bias we've seen for a while here.

If Henne was using X number of protectors per extra rusher, and X was abnormally higher than the league average, then by definition, Y, the number of pass defenders per pass receiver would also be abnormally higher than the rest of the league. If Chad Henne was given more protection than any other QB, then he was also given fewer receiving options than any other QB. Compound that w/ our inability to stretch the field or run the ball consistently and you'll see that extra protection can be a double edged sword for a QB. I don't care how good your protection is, it's tough to have success throwing 3 or 4 man routes into 7 man coverages, especially for a QB like Henne who struggles to extend plays or improvise when a play breaks down.

I understand why the extra protection route was taken, but I disagree w/ it going forward. Henne can throw the ball literally all over the field. The offense is better served by stretching the field, forcing the D to expand and then allowing Henne to make throws into larger windows that come as a result. We're not better served w/ condensing the field and asking Henne to be a sniper in the short-intermediate areas. That's Pennington's game, not Robot's. Unfortunately, our WR corps was more suited to the short area sniper style than the air it out down the field style and unless Clay and Gates hit the ground running we may struggle to stretch the field again this year. If that's the case then we'll need the running game to open the medium-deep passing game, and we'll need an OL that leaks from the outside if necessary, but never from the middle the way it did last year.

 

Excellent answer!!!!

 

Not a bad mug but the lower half is exceptional...

 

I couldn't say otherwise. I don't use PFF much at all honestly, but thats another matter. I was just talking from my own experience in two collegiate offenses. One was more wide open and we did have some plays where we could leak out should no one come, but we'd had better make damn sure no one comes on a delay and we've filtered out...........thats going to get you a benching in a bloody hurry.

The more conservative offense we didn't have that ability aside from maybe a handful of plays. Different offense obviously, but it just wasn't there for us. We had to stay in and block, and if no one came we just helped the lineman as we saw fit depending on our read.

 

There are so many things I could do to refute this, but I will let you fester in your own ignorance.

 

Depends on what you're seeing. But, remember with a 3 step drop the OL sets up a little different. Some of the blocks are different as well, especially with tackles trying to cut a guy etc. But, with a 3 step drop that ball has to come out when that back foot hits the ground, if it doesn't that short set can become difficult as the quarterback is that much closer to the line.

 

Riiiight. I guess you played for a team where the OLineman never made protection calls or perhaps your team ran the ball every play. My mistake.

 

Played QB in High School and I've never heard of that. The fact anyone using High School as a point of reference needs to get over it and realize that they didn't make it for whatever reason. It's truly said to hear people refer of their glory days in High School, when for most cases that was 20+ years ago. But, never mind that.

You know where Todd Haley, the HC of the 2010 AFC West Division Champs, went to earn his degree in college? University of North Florida. You know what our football record was last year? 0-0. You know what our record has been since 1972? 0-0. It's because we've never had a football team.

He isn't the only example of a guy not having any football experience and leading a professional or higher echelon team. So, this idea that you need to have a certain level of game experience to to understand is so condescending it reeks.

I've played baseball in college and there are plenty of people that understand the game better than I do, and know more about mechanics than I ever could. I certainly don't go around pompously stating well, you didn't play so you don't understand.

 

I did not know how PFF dealt with a RB or TE releasing on a pass play. Here's what they do.


"Generally, if a running back initially stays in to block, he will be marked as pass blocking. If he releases into a route it'll only be changed if he does so with enough time to be an option. Most times, though, they release just before the qb finds another target."

So, the extra blockers stay the same.

 

This is getting ridiculous. So now we have people that played high school football acting like everyone that didn't, doesn't know jack sh-t about the NFL. Nice. Score one (or four) for Al Bundy.

 

For the sake of discussion, NOT argument, let's tak a look at something specific to talk about.

It's 3rd and 10 with Miami being on their own 35 yard line. Two different deals for Henne.

The coaches send in 4 WRs, and call a play. What are Henne's options in protection?

The coaches send in Marshall, Bess, Fasano, Polite, and Ricky or Ronnie, and call a play. What are Henne's options in protection?

I'm asking this to get knowledgeable opinions on his options.

 

This is getting somewhat out of hand, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. It transforms a VG discussion/debate into knowing things, which are not known, but believed because of what was done years ago, with people who knew less than posters know now.

 

Al Bundy played at Penn State so no way you're slipping that by.

 

I thought he played at Polk High!

 

LOL! Seriously, Chris, next tv appearance you should find that outfit.

 

Who is Al Bundy?

 

I don't really see the big issue. Maybe he's not familiar with it, so what? If not playing football means people are not informed about it, then next time you're in Florida, send me a private message and we can meet up to watch film. Maybe you can teach me something.

 

There are really a number of factors that decide what Henne can do in either scenario. But to your point, in the first situation, you're probably not calling one of the WRs in to protect, and so the only option to keep an extra protector in would be the RB. But to my point, depending on the play call, the QB could also signal the back to go empty backfield and run his pattern from a different spot on the field, which is commonly done in the NFL. In fact, I recall Chad Pennington doing exactly that. A lot. If you did that, then the back isn't sitting in the backfield on an option route if nobody is coming...he's releasing out and running a route and the quarterback has an idea what that back's route does to the defense and therefore what he wants to do with the football.

But it's not like the coaching staff can give the quarterback some mechanical list of things to check off which give him the one and true answer that says to him "motion the back out and go empty". It's a feel and preference thing. It's an option (on some plays), and the quarterback has to see the value in it based on his feel and what he wants and do it. Or not. His call. Just like Dan Henning said before that he can run the same exact play three times against the same defensive look with Chad Pennington, Chad Henne and Tyler Thigpen, and each of them are going to do it differently, ball is going to go to a different place with each quarterback.

 

LOL. Yeah I'll find my Polk High letterman's jacket and my NO MA'AM t-shirt.

 

Ed O'Neil, former LB at PSU and Fiji brother. IIRC he was an All American as well before he became an actor.

 

How wrong was he, though? Because while I know as well as you do that RBs and OLs can make TE/RB protection calls in college (and I suppose High School, though I'm not one to watch a lot of High School tape), to my knowledge in the NFL that is almost always done by the quarterbacks. And when I say "almost always", I'm covering my @ss a little bit because the fact of the matter is I've not once heard of any NFL team that has their backs, tight ends or offensive linemen making those decisions without the quarterback at the very least being able to overrule them, if not necessarily being first in the chain of responsibility.

 

This is SILLY. Did Mondo, Omar, or Oh My Darling-ton play? Howsabout Chris Berman or Howard Cossell?

Does anyone really care? I never played football, hoops coach would not allow. However, I would put my football, more so Dolphin, knowledge against anyone not working for our Phins, and vs some who do.

No one cares but, if anyone wishes to challenge, take your best shot.

If not, can we just talk about our team?

 

Has anyone ever seen Peyton, sitting back in the shotgun, pointing to where he sees potential pressure coming from?

 

VG point, and agreed on part #1. That was a nice run down.

What is your take on option #2? This is more difficult.

 

To answer the bold, I guess some do. I don't.

Protection calls are done by the Center unless you have a quarterback that can (and wants to) handle everything on his plate. Guys like Manning, Brees, Brady (not only them, they are examples) are guys who can handle everything but they always don't. Manning's protection calls are done by Jeff Saturday. Manning will call audibles, which in turn makes Jeff Saturday change the protection scheme. This allows Manning to have more freedom at the line and survey the defense. The back will then adjust to that protection called by Saturday and pick up his man. I am sure there are options for the quarterback to overrule the call but unless he is planning on going somewhere specific with the ball, I doubt he overrules the protection. By that, I mean audibling to quick game and letting Saturday and the rest of the OL know by calling half slide in that direction for example.

 

He's usually identifying the MIKE and then if there is an eighth man in the box. That determines if he will call run or pass. Its the Check with Me system.

 

Yeah, that is what happens, and I wonder how often it does in HS football?

Shall we both, as not playing the game, see how many recall seeing that while playing HS football?

 

They all do that. But they're also calling out their hot route options I think.