Greg Cosell on Henne, Pouncey, and other tidbits

Ridiculous statement again, because he is usually on point everywhere on the field before the 25 yard+ range.

 

Valid points. However, the play called and routes being ran on the 4th against Pitt was one of the worst designed plays I have ever seen in that situation.

Cossell is a good evaluator, not one of the best in my mind because I tend to take people who didn't play the game with a grain of salt unless they have shown they can mold and coach players at a high level. He did rate John Beck extremely high coming out also giving Jamarcus Russell, David Carr, Akili Smith, and Ryan Leaf top notch grades as well. That isn't to say he isn't on point a lot, because he is. It's ignorant to say he is an idiot though.

He did rate Jason Campbell extremely high too, but I did as well. He was a stud coming out.

 

Nope, read the QBR stats, outside the hashes he is far more competent, middle of the field he drops off.

Read the link.

 

You're a little late and behind. I'd catch you up, but I don't want to waste anymore time on the "Cosell" thing than I have to.

Here are a few things he said about Jon Beck before he was drafted by Miami:

Effortless mechanics, played relaxed + poised, game was in slow motion to him mentally, good touch + feel, very competitive.

Pocket awareness + understanding of pressure. Effective in muddied pocket.

Good decision maker, a rhythm + flow to his game.

When I studied him I saw similarities to Brees (remember this was after 2006 season).


Yeah, Cosell is a God. I mean, Beck is Brees 2.0. lol

However, it seems as if you got yourself a nice pat on the back from a great forum contributor, and all around NFL expert....[/sarcasm]

 

Greg may not be as good as his Dad Howard was but just the same, his info is usually based on solid evaluation. Its true. one half Henne looks great, then all of a sudden a pass to WHERE ? Have to agree with the man.

 

First off, "extremely high" is probably not the appropriate term to use to describe how he rated John Beck. He liked him, just as he liked Chad Henne coming out, but when asked how he'd have rated Beck in this year's class he said ahead of Ponder and Dalton. That's not "extremely high" because I'm pretty sure he had 2nd round grades (at the highest) on both of those guys.

As for the other players I don't know how he rated those guys.

 

I'm not behind on anything.

 

OK..it seems I have to explain or else suffer through more of these posts about calling Cosell an "idiot". Some of the posts I made explaining the following have since been deleted.

I called Cosell an "idiot" because I saw his name in the title of this thread and then read only the quoted portion of the article in the OP. I assumed that Cosell was presenting the passing stats and using them to justify his opinion of Henne. Cosell is right about a lot of things. However, he's not always right and he's said some idiotic things over the course of his career.

Now, and once again, I really don't care who presented the numbers. That's not what my initial post was about. Specifically I shot down those "stats" and showed how they are misleading and dumb.

 

He said Beck reminded him of Brees. I'd say that was "extremely high".

 

Just wanted to get way off topic and thank you for posting in the mains every now and again. It's a breath of fresh air and reminds me how badly I need to re-up on my club membership.

 

Henne didn't all of a sudden clam up, forget how to play football, or decide to give it zero dedication.
He's still the guy we liked in 09 who showed promise of a bright future.
The only difference is--- Miami's 2010 season was a horrible year for ANY young QB to have a break-out season in. HORRIBLE!!
However, he toughed through it and dedicated himself even harder this offseason rather than falling apart, so perhaps he'll be mentally stronger and better for it b/c of this adversity.
It's my guess that the player we all hoped he'd be in 2010 will emerge in 2011, and I foresee him significantly closing the gap statistically between himself and Ryan-Flacco-Freeman. (On the field, I believe the gap is already closer than stats would indicate.)

 

I really wish I could buy into that 100% TP, the Ghost of 07 is whispering in my ear, and it is saying:

"If you do not know about your Qb, you do not know anything about your offense or how it will perform"

In 07, we had 5 major questions, things that were just being ignored, and I no longer can just take it for granted that anything over 3 major questions can be answered, maybe down to 2 major questions.

-Qb is 1
-Rb is 2

Strike three is Oline?

 

He continues his promising 2009 year right to the midway point of the 2010 season...lol, then whoever the idiot was benched him....LOL..

 

So ahead of 2nd round graded quarterbacks usually means 1st round grade. And a 1st round grade on a 6'1 barely 6'2 quarterback from BYU is pretty high in my mind.

 

Beck is Brees and Russell is "Elway good"!

lol

 

Honestly if they really want to stick with Henne for 2011 the simplest thing that can be done is to 86 the ineffective play action passing motion, Ck did a study on that and Henne's int's came directly off of the stupid thing.

Just have him do something else instead, or really bust on him to get better at it.

 

Talent evaluation is not easy with a team sport like football, talent projection is even tuffer. I am far more optimistic about Henne than CK or Cossell, but bringing up a few out of context evaluations to denigrate a 30 year body of work seems weak. Why not address why you disagree with their specific evaluations of Henne?

 

Henne is good on the rollout though. And he got blitzed in the Raiders game and looked good. He also gets blitzed and pressured against the Jets but he generally plays well against the Jets. The thing is, Fasano already dropped the first down pass. Why will no one get on Fasano for that? If you're not going acknowledge it, leave it alone entirely.

 

I have...ad nauseum.

 

He's pretty good rolling out to the right. I don't think I ever saw him roll left. I understand that is a lot harder for a right handed QB, but it's something that he could add to his repetoire. I really hope he does what CK suggested he do during last years off-season, and that's work on his overall athleticism and agility. He also needs to learn to look downfield when scrambling. I haven't really given up on Henne. Hope springs eternal!

 

Then why do the other? If your points are good they'll stand on their own. Turning specific evaluations such as: "Like Elway, he has the ability to see and make downfield throws 50 yards when he's on the move." into "he's Elway good" so that you can dismiss him as a talent evaluator is silly. If you have real points to debate, debate them.


**edit**
The Elway comparsion was true BTW. Russels issue's weren't throwing down field on the move. Not at all.

 

Same here, I am an unabashed advocate of landing Kyle Orton, however I can see a path for Henne to improve it is not a dead end with him but that improvement is solely up to him, sort of "he has to show us something we have not seen before from him" but it is in there.

I was not BSing when I said his upside is Jim Kelly.

 

The reason I am bringing it up is to show not everyone is on point with everything and that some people can view as him for an idiot for some reason or another. Which I don't, I think hes an above average talent evaluator. It was more so to address the swipe by CK at Marine saying his post was meaningless because he called Cosell an idiot.

 

Orton for the right price. Pay too much and even if Henne proves that he truly isn't the answer this year, you lose some of your flexibility in the draft. Anyone think that Miami isn't close to a 500 team even with Henne playing like he did last year? If so, we may need that 2nd to 4th round pick to move up to get the guy we want. Orton isn't a long term solution by any means.

 

Agreed, his issues were touch, accuracy, a brain and a work ethic.

 

Again, and I realize that you missed some of the since deleted posts, I called Cosell an idiot when I thought he was using the 20yard + passing stats to back up his opinion on Henne. However, when CK tried to flame me for calling Cosell an idiot (even though I had already informed him that he didn't have all the info because of the aforementioned deleted posts) and he insinuated that Cosell can't be wrong I then brought up some of Cosell's boneheaded opinions of Beck. And there are many others that I didn't touch on.

 

I never said or insinuated that Greg Cosell couldn't be wrong. I just insinuated that the posts of a person that dismisses what Greg Cosell says out of hand, calling him an idiot, especially when that person cites stuff that Cosell didn't even say...are not worth reading. Theoretically. I don't know if anyone in this thread did that, but theoretically those would be posts not worth reading.

 

Didn't see either of the bolded. I feel that I'm falling into a black hole with this debate now, so I'm out before the event horizon.

 

I never insinuated that Greg Cosell couldn't be wrong. But I did flame him for simply dismissing Cosell's opinion out of hand and calling him an idiot.

 

Can you mention in your post how the sun will come up tomorrow? Of course everyone is not on point with everything. Some people will be wrong. There is not one person in the NFL who hasn't made a mistake.

 

I never dismissed Cosell's opinion out of hand. I've repeatedly explained why I called him an idiot. Once again, you came late into this discussion and you are still lost.

 

Flame post must have been deleted. Damn sneaky mods.

 

Nah it's still there.

http://www.thephins.com/forums/show...ther-tidbits&p=1488536&viewfull=1#post1488536

I mean, not really an epic flaming. But I got my point across.

 

Kind of a pathetic flame in a I'm-plugging-my-ears-closing-my-eyes while I scream "Nah...Nah...Nah...Nah..." and I'm taking my ball and going home way, IMO.

 

I don’t see that as a flame. I always think of a personal attack as a flame. Way off topic now though.

 

The QB is not the only player who's responsible for the play fake. The RB, OL & TE all have jobs to do & none of them did it well consistently. IMO that speaks to coaching & a lack of attention to detail more than the failings of any one individual.

 

GM when the pa fake is not within a yd of the running back chances are good it is not going to work very well, hopefully with Henning gone, along with David Lee that idiocy is 86'd.

 

It wasn't a swipe by CK. He called Cosell an idiot. That's pure ignorance, especially for a guy as highly regarded as Cosell is. Agree or not agree, but don't call the guy an idiot, especially when your qualifications are that you post on your favorite team's message board.

 

Henne debates always turn this way. There is just too many of them. It's almost impossible to keep it sane in them these days. I do like to banter back and forth every now and then though, haha.

 

Yeah, I think you're right. More a statement of fact. But you're right we're getting off topic.