Greg Cosell on Henne, Pouncey, and other tidbits

For all the criticism, he still thinks we can win with the kid.

It's all on Daboll this year.

 

"wow he has turned the corner..then he makes a couple of throws and you wonder what he was seeing.."

Mainly Henne either knows the defense and where he is going with the ball, or he does not, the D switches up, Henne does not know what he is seeing and voila!

That is an inexperience issue, I'm not the world's largest Henne fan but this is not some mystery problem, the cure is..more reps and more experience, the question is spending that amount of time and effort on Henne worth it from a football decision standpoint?



Could go either way, and nothing would surprise me, Henne starting, Henne Traded, Another Qb brought in, for myself I favor simplification, bring in an Orton who can get it done with -0- doubt involved, even if *gasp* that costs a #1 pick, or whomever.

 

Cosell is an idiot. His numbers, and the way he's presented them, are misleading to say the least.

For example, Tom Brady threw for over 20 yards on just 10 more occassions than did Henne (50 compared to 40). If a QB has more attempts, read more practice with these throws, along with WR's getting separation, a running game that keeps those DB's honest, and 10+ years in the league, like Brady did/has, what would you guess his comp% at these throws would be? 50%? 40%? Well, I'll tell you...36%. Brady completed 8 more of those passes than Henne, but again he attempted 10 more.

Matt Ryan- attempted 51 passes (11 more than Henne) and completed just 6 more for a 31% completion rate.

P. Manning- attempted 95...yes, 95! and yet he completed only 29 for a 30% comp rate.

Sanchez- 74 attempts, 21 completions for a 28% comp rate.


Only 3 QB's in the league had fewer attempts over the 20 yard mark than Henne. Alex Smith (36), Colt McCoy (32), and V. Young (35). And all of those QB's missed a lot of games. And only V. Young had a considerably higher comp % than Henne. What this tells me is that V. Young has better chemistry, due to his time in the league, with his WR's and a better feel for the game, again, due to his 6yrs in the league.

 

He didn't present the numbers. Ben Volin did.

 

I also found this interesting.

Out of those 20 yr + throws for all QB's what was their INT numbers like?

Well, Henne had 7% of those throws intercepted which puts him right in the middle for all NFL starting QB's at 14th for the percentage of these passes that were intercepted.

Brady had 6%. (20)

P. Manning had 7%. (15)

P. Rivers had 12% (4)

McCoy had a 21% (1)

Rodgers had a 7% (16)


(The lower the number the higher the percentage that was intercepted)

 

Pretty much sums up Henne to a T. Also not sure how someone could refer to Cosell as an idiot. Guy is about as good as they come in regards to film study.

 

I'm still unsure as to how a 61% passer has "major accuracy issues".

 

Well, because there are throws designed to be easily completed MPF, check downs and what have you, extend the play outwards and make the windows smaller and accuracy means more.

That said, 2010 is 2010 it is over and done with what interests me is Cosell has -0- idea how Henne will do in the new offense, as in "I have to say something so I'll speak some gibberish about mixing and matching".

 

Because throwing a comeback is a lot easier than throwing a slant? There was a reason we ran the routes everyone complained about.

 

gafinfan, who doesn't have access to that tape? A couple of us have been watching these games like we were paid to this offseason. And as for we "lost" some games because of Henne, did he really think our running game could have done better? I'd like to know this list of games that he lost.

Officially, three games ended with an INT by Henne, only three. One of them was the Steelers game where it actually wasn't an INT and Henne hit Fasano for the drive continuing first down that Fasano dropped. ga, I love ya in PoFo, but right now you like the sound of that because he agrees with you. We've been hearing the same thing from different people all off season. This ain't about to change any minds. The only assessment I've heard all off-season that makes any sense is from Mike Mayock.

 

He is referring to the all-22 tape.

 

All throws are designed to be completed. I can agree that Henne made some bad decisions last year, what 2nd yr starting QB with either practice squad WR's or brand new WR's along with no running game who has to run an offense called by an old booger wouldn't?

 

Henning and practice squad WR's?

 

Dump off to Te or rb in flat, or slant in the middle of the field, there is a difference MPF, Henne can handle the check down pass easily, it is the routes that drive us down the field that he has problems with completing.

Now let me be clear, I am not saying Henne shall never complete them, not at all, I am saying in 2010 they gave him problems, he is a young Qb who can improve my preference is to find a young Vet Qb so "we" do not have to suffer through Henne's learning curve any longer.

And here I am, in yet another Hennezilla thread, pardon me....

 

Check out those numbers I posted regarding the passes of 20 or more yards. Henne didn't have accuracy issues as much as he had OC issues, rookie issues, running game issues, and new or crappy WR's issues.

 

A LOT of people. Watching the games during the offseason is much different than looking at game tape.

 

Padre, Henne drove us into the red zone a lot and had a great TD/INT ratio in the redzone. The playcalling once we got there left much to be desired. We were 11th in punts. 1 being good. We drove the field with such terrible field position (near league bottom) but just couldn't punch it in.

 

Henne can throw the ball to the receiver, however he does not have good ball placement.

The terrible field position did hurt all of Miami's offense.

 

Thing is, my view is if Henne is the guy then make the running game as powerful as possible as he has not shown the throws into the EZ is something he is really comfortable with doing, the fades and jump balls and what have you are not his cup of tea at this point in time, so why pound the offenses head against the wall?

 

Plus is not very good at creating more time with his legs. That helps a lot when it comes to throwing the ball in the EZ

 

Helps the running game as well as the backside DE cannot just pin their ears back and head upfield as the Qb can keep the ball and run right past them making them look lost...

Thing is guys, with the lockout and what have you, there will be no resolution to the Qb position, and Henne had a mediocre at best season, going back and forth on his 2010 play will lead to more biting on each other.

I'd ask that Henne not become a Ginn like lightening rod and turn the forum into a food fight day after day.

 

I think that is more pocket presense, which he isn't very good at either.

There are a few times, especially in the redzone, when Henne would have all the room in the world to the right or left of him and he just stays in the pocket. In the Raider game that is when he threw the interception.

 

Fairness to Henne, he was holding onto the ball trying to let the play develop down the field and threw it less then half of a second before being trucked, granted throwing a ball late over the middle is a bad idea but he was trying to make a play.

I do not mind mistakes when a Qb is trying to make a play, if one does not accept them then the Qb becomes extra cautious and tries to make no plays down the field.

 

The dude is money in the Red Zone. He missed on two red zone opportunities that stood out. One was the first Jets game, and the other was the Ravens game. For all the talk of him not throwing the fade, there isn't a lot of talk about how often the fade was even called. You can't just say he doesn't throw the fade if you don't specify which fades he had but didn't take. As for jump balls, we have one legitimate receiver to catch a jump ball, and we still don't have a clue whether it was said to not take that shot in the first place. I wouldn't be surprised.

 

He had plenty of time and space to get out of there.

 

Like I've been saying: It's not an issue of ability, it's an issue of consistency. Hopefully he gets it this year.

 

My view of Henne 2010.

1. Hurt by terrible playcalling, especially once in the endzone
2. Hurt by being afraid to take a risk a couple bad decisions landed him on the bench
3. Hurt by lack of running game
4. Hurt by injured offensive line
5. Hurt literally by his knee

Not saying none of it rests on Henne's shoulders, he made some questionable decisions at times that for sure. He made some dumb passes, some bad passes, and good ones as well. He showed what he was made of playing injured, showed class after getting benched for 3 plays for Pennington. He is a young QB that is going to take time to develop, I hate to see what this place is going to look like the day we do draft a QB with our #1 pick and he doesn't perform right away. Henne gets this much crap and he was a 2nd rounder.
5.

 

Great post.

Some here will remember when Steve Young (A 1st round pick) played for the Bucs. He was touted as a huge bust and the Bucs then drafted Testaverde (1st overall) and traded Young to the 49ers two seasons later. The problem, however, wasn't Young. As he showed when he played for the 49ers AFTER he sat on the bench there for 4 seasons.

What I'm getting at is that the TEAM has a huge impact on QB play. It's been shown time and time again over the years that you can take a HoF QB, put them on a crappy team and they will look average at best.

(Now, before any of the "how can you compare Henne to Young" idiots come out, stop, re-read what I just wrote, and realize that I didn't compare Steve Young to Chad Henne. I compared their situations early on in their careers.)

Henne, as has been written in this thread, has the ability. The problem is the lack of structure and foundation on this young and up and coming team. The entire TEAM is going through growing pains so why would anyone think that Henne wouldn't?

 

Had to hop in on that one MPF, due to Young being brought up.

I can recall Steve Young playing for the Bucs in the mid 80's after the USFL folded, and believe me Henne is light yrs ahead of were Steve Young was in the same amount of time, Young really was hot garbage he could run but as a "qb" Henne would have made Bucs fans jump for joy.

Oh Young was just bad, but the Bucs being the Bucs, they then gave him away to the 49ers.

Anywho, as for the "team" concept, yes and know, a good Qb will tend to look good, as in you can tell they are playing well even if the stats or W/L record does not show it, a good example from last yr would be Colt McCoy, stats wise he was kinda poor, watch him play and he was making things happen.

With Henne, wildly inconsistent, stats wise he looks good, but week in and week out you do not know what you are getting with him, could be youth, could be Henne is not that good, he is waaaay ahead of were Steve Young was in yr #2, but I'm not thrilled with pinning a season on him, another season, if Sparano does so I could see why he would but that is fraught with risk as our season is basically over, or not, in the first 4 games.

Pats
SD
Texans
Browns

Pats took 2 from us in 2010, SD has won the last meeting, Texans have beaten us 5 in a row, Browns should be better this yr.

 

WTF? is this a serious statement? A comeback is easier to throw than a slant? What world do you live in? In which way is it easier?

 

You can stop there, because whatever you said after that statement is totally meaningless.

 

Is for Henne, our #7 is remarkably consistent, he can throw outside the hash marks with consistent accuracy, in the middle of the field his QBR plummets 10% from 77 to the mid 60's.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8834/situational;_ylt=AkLs2b7nP3oT9f2Mqg0wiP7.uLYF

Henne's problem is right in the middle of the field, or where slants are thrown...

 

A couple of things.

1. You're right, some of us have been watching as much Miami tape as Cosell has. And I've never been a big believer that you NEED the coaches tape to see most of what you need to see in a quarterback's game. However, it does help, and Greg Cosell at NFL Films watches the coaches tape of all these games, not just the broadcast tape. Higher angles so that you can better see the routes being run, and sometimes from the end zone behind view you can see a thing that you might have missed because of the network angle (sometimes). I usually disagree with people who say that you can't make conclusions based on network tape, because I think they commonly overestimate what different things you'd see on the coaches tape as opposed to the broadcast footage, but I'm not fool enough to say that access to coaches tape doesn't give you an edge over access to broadcast tape. It does.

2. This isn't just a guy that locked himself in a film vault and watched a ton of Miami coaches tape. This is a guy that locks himself in a vault and watches a ton of everyone's coaches tape, including college and pro, and has done so every single year since 1979 when he got his job at NFL Films. There's a difference. He produces a show that is commonly thought of as the most intelligent film-based football review on television. I'm comfortable disagreeing with him, but his words carry a lot of weight with me. Probably more so than anyone else out there, even Mayock whom I respect tremendously. His words carry more weight with me than many active scouts and even GMs.

3. Here's the thing about that final Steelers interception and I too have argued that it shouldn't count as it wasn't really an interception. Really dig deep within yourself and ask yourself this question: does it matter? It SHOULD have been an interception, whether James Harrison had quite the skill to pick it up off his shoe tops or not. Henne was pressured, rolling out, he's NOT good under pressure, does NOT make plays in those situations, got hit and he ended up throwing the ball straight to James Harrison. So I mean, interception, no interception, aren't we just arguing semantics on this one?

 

That has nothing to do with slants. Slants are usually let go at the end of a 3 step drop where the wideout takes 2 steps most of the time sinks the outside hip and explodes slanting to the middle where the ball is usually thrown. Its most right between the outside and middle where its thrown. It can vary, but slants are easier to throw than comebacks. The reason slants were not thrown and middle of the field throws were rare were because of the coverages and shells defenses were running.

 

As for this notion that Greg Cosell admits that Miami can win with Chad Henne, let's take a look at what Cosell said.

He noted that the Ravens won the Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer, that the Buccaneers won the Super Bowl with Brad Johnson, and that the Jets have gone to two AFC Championship Games by minimizing the impact Mark Sanchez can have on the game. Within that context, Miami can win with Chad Henne. But this is not a compliment to Henne. This is Greg Cosell saying it's still somewhat sorta possible to win without a good QB in this league. The Ravens and Buccaneers didn't just have good defenses, they have what Desides has coined (and I like), generational defenses. The Ravens defense of 2000 was very literally the best defense I've ever seen in my life. I have never seen a team that was so eager to punt the ball, because they knew that their defense had a high percentage chance not just of stopping the opposing offense, but of knocking them backward which would increase the offense's field position without earning it, or the defense could just score outright. Most teams want to minimize the time their defense would be on the field, the Ravens seemed eager to get their defense on the field. And for all that, in 2002 I believe from a points and yardage perspective (correct me if I'm wrong), the Buccaneers allowed fewer points and yards than even that ridiculous Ravens defense, only difference being they didn't quite score as much themselves as the Ravens did. Both defenses were years in the making, and were playing at the apex of their respective arcs.

I may be among Chad Henne's staunchest critics, but even I will say yes absolutely if Miami develops a defense like that, and either a ground game like the Ravens had with Jamal Lewis AND Priest Holmes running the ball for them, or the offensive scheming ability of a Jon Gruden...they can win with Chad Henne. It can happen. Maybe.

Good luck trying to put those things together. I don't see a generational defense coming from the likes of Paul Soliai, Cam Wake, Randy Starks, Kendall Langford, Karlos Dansby, Channing Crowder, Koa Misi, Vontae Davis, Sean Smith, Yeremiah Bell and Chris Clemons. Maybe that's just me. I also don't see a ground game led by a rookie taken at the tail end of the 2nd round reproducing what Jamal Lewis AND Priest Holmes combined for in Baltimore. Nor do I see the offensive coordinator that designed and called two of the very worst offenses in football in 2009 and 2010, suddenly looking like a true offensive genius that can produce chicken salad out of chicken sh-t.

 

My point is, "check down chad' is not quite accurate, as in "dump the ball of to a back, or bess, or fasano" Henne throws outside of the hashes with better QBR success, and that is where the comebacks and curls etc are run normally.