fair enough. To each his own. I don't have a problem with Hartline as a borderline vertical guy if he has a QB to match his skill, which IMO maxes out around 40 yards downfield. After that I think the pass starts to enter riskyland with fast DBs who can close. I think Brian is perfect for a Peyton Manning type who can drop it over his outside shoulder 35-40 yards downfield on more of a timing route after he's made a nice double move. However, that doesn't match Henne's skill set. IMO Chad needs the kind of guy he can lead in order to let the WR go and get it like he did at Michigan. He showed a lot more touch IMO when throwing to speedier guys whom he knew could beat the DB to the ball. In Miami, he seems to be trying to force the pass into Hartline. Just my 2 cents.
IMO Hartline is the kind of receiver that an elite QB uses as a vessel to complete his passes to, but I don't consider that the same as being a legit vertical threat. That's more like a possession receiver with the ability to make uncontested catches downfield. True vertical threats, however, should be receivers who IMO make your QB better once the ball is in the air and allow. They should possess one major talent when the pass is mid air that separates them from the DB who is also trying to make the play. That could be speed and/or great tracking abililty to blow by coverage like Mike Wallace; or it could be the physical size to dominate a CB like Braylon Edwards; it could be a natural ability to effectively go up and get the ball like a Steve Smith; or it could be a combination of any or all 3. IMO this is the kind of guy Henne needs rather than the guy better suited for Peyton Manning.
Espn the magazine The latest tall QB's to have success are Flacco(6'6) and Josh Freeman(6'6) but not only is Mallet taller at 6'7 he is also wayyyy slower and less mobile. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1632241 But keep focusing on his big arm
perfect example of why his height is a red flag. I'd rather not risk a 1st round pick on a guy who, to become successful, would have to defy 90 years of NFL history. it's not worth the risk.
How tall is Rothlesburger? I'd say he's had pretty good success as a big quarterback. Mallet played in the toughest division in college football, that being the SEC. My opinion is that players in the SEC are battle tested (which is why the NCAA Championship has been won by an SEC team for what, 7 out of the last 10 years?) and because of that test, are in positions to not only start but excel in the NFL. Ryan Mallet's success or demise in the NFL is going to depend on one thing...whether the team who drafts him tailors their offense around his God given gifts and natural talents (as the Falcons did with Ryan or the Jets did with Sanchez) or make him tailor his talents around the team's offensive scheme (as the 49er's did with Alex Smith or the Lions with Joey Harrington). If we do draft Ryan Mallet, which in my opinion wouldn't be such a bad thing, I sincerely hope and pray our coaching staff will be intelligent enough to tailor our offense around him and not the other way around...but seeing the long record of idiotic decisions made by the front office and coaching staff since the retirement of "The Don", I wouldn't be too optimisitic.
6'7 dough boy is what he is...He could of at least tempered his slow *** by being in top condition thru college..not even close.
My point exactly. Ben "seems" tall, but he's 6'4 and change. We're talking about a player who's nearly 6'7 with a long NFL history of guys that tall not succeeding.
Ben is 6'4 Even though Mallet played in the toughest division in college football that doesn't mean he will be able to transition his game to the NFL level especially when he only has that big arm going for him, at 6'7 the guy is super slow(5.37 in the 40 he's not mobile and he's not athletic at least Freeman and Flacco who both stand at 6'6 shows some kind of athleticism. Until Mallet proves other wise he should get the Derek Anderson treatment since they both fit the same mold.
Personally I prefer Mallett to Ponder. But can you really do much better than Chad Pennington's ability? If not for the chronic shoulder injuries, Chad Pennington is probably one of the better QBs in this league over the last ten years. Have we forgotten that Chad Pennington had a 97 QBR in 2008? If Christian Ponder can become a healthy Pennington, then please sign me up, I'd even trade into the top-10 for someone with that ability. As I said, I prefer Mallett to Ponder. I think he has everything you need in a QB. But I would hope people don't view a "Chad Pennington type of player" as a negative.
With all due respect, I don't think a lack of athleticism entails being a statue in the pocket or being an easy target for pass rushers. Being good in the pocket requires presence of mind, a feel for the rush, ability to read a defense, ability to anticipate whats going to happen, poise and composure, etc. I think when you're talking about pocket presence and avoiding a pass rush, Tom Brady is really the standard. He doesn't have any more athletic ability than Ryan Mallett IMO.
No offense, but that doesn't mean anything. The ACC in fact has sent nearly TWICE as many PRO BOWLERS into the NFL since 1990. I disagree with the "battle tested" theory. He's a QB, not a guy playing in the trenches etc. In fact, small schools have put more and better QBs in the NFL the past 10 years than the SEC. The ACC & PAC 10 have as well. During these past 10 years you referenced: the SEC's best includes Eli, Cutler, Jason Campbell, and Stafford. (2 Pro Bowls) ACC- Rivers, Vick, Schaub, and Ryan. (9 Pro Bowls) PAC 10- Rodgers, Sanchez, Cassell, Palmer (4 Pro Bowls) Small schools- Roethlisberger, Flacco, Romo, Garrard, Alex Smith, Kolb. (5 Pro Bowls) Big 12- Bradford, Freeman, Young. (3 Pro Bowls) Big 10- Orton, Henne. 1st round busts or disappointments past 20 years: SEC- Jamarcus Russell (#1 pick), Tim Couch (#1), Heath Shuler (#3), Grossman (22nd), Jason Campbell (25th) PAC 10- Leaf (2), Akili Smith (3), Harrington (3), Leinart (10), McCown (12), Boller (19), Marinovich (24), Maddox (28) C-USA- Klingler (6), Losman (22), Ramsey (32) Independent- Rick Mirer (2), Quinn (22) WAC- Carr (1) Small School- Alex Smith (1) Big 12- Vince Young (3) MAC- Leftwich (7) ACC- Druckenmiller (26), Dave Brown (29) Mountain West- Dan McGuire (16) The only thing the SEC seems to prevail in is #1 overall draft pick QBs who bust. lol.
And how about the things you DONT need? Ask serious Jets fans about Pennington being a top 10 worthy QB healthy or not. I'm sure you'll get a lot of harsh looks for that statement. The guy does not have what it takes physically to win big games against great defenses. Why would you want a QB who can beat up on crappy teams, but get beat up himself against good ones?
Are you referring to drug use? If he isn't failing tests or missing team functions, its not really an issue to me. Michael Irvin used drugs. Lawrence Taylor used drugs. They would party all night, then go to practice the next morning, most likely still under the influence. Whats important to me is that they still made it to practice, and still practiced harder than anyone. Drug use exclusively isn't a detriment IMO. When that drug use infringes on your job, then its an issue to me. I disagree that he doesn't have what it takes physically to win against "great defenses". I also could care less about the opinion of fans. Especially Jet fans, considering their decision to replace Pennington with a QB who had "what it takes physically" resulted in a division title for us.
You know what I really would love in a QB for the future?.. all four things....Intelligence, Size, elite athleticism, and Competitiveness, that ain't Mallett nor Ponder imo, one that has it all is Kaepernik, has a nice skillset to work with..
no, I'm not talking about drug use. I'm talking about the parts of his game that could drop him to the 2nd round rather than being a #1 pick, which his arm talent alone would indicate. Height? Decision making under pressure? Athletic ability? Accuracy when his feet are moving? Locking onto receivers at times? Poor mobility? Poor conditioning (the guy was sucking wind during Gruden Camp)? Forcing throws into coverage? Mental mistakes during critical moments? Baltimore might disagree. We have a Jets fan here who is extremely intelligent and insightful regarding the game. A division title when NE didn't have Brady and the Jets didn't have Rex...... and we surprised the league with the wildcat.
But Brady doesn't have heavy feet and long legs and Mallet doesn't have a feel for the rush just look at the last play of his college career as one example.
Yeah, I think its safe to say I don't agree with much of your analysis on Mallett. His accuracy in the short and intermediate range is pretty damn good. His accuracy on deep balls and on the run isn't as good, but if you agree that he's accurate in the intermediate range, it is something that is correctable. The mobility isn't an issue to me, because the extent of his movements will likely be limited to a few steps moving up in the pocket. The conditioning isn't an issue either, considering he'll face as tough a conditioning regimen as any QB in the NFL. Of course the mental mistakes are cause for concern, but I certainly don't think they were prevalent enough to prevent me from drafting him at 15. His arm strength really doesn't factor into my opinion of him at all.
And Baltimore also blew out New England in the 2010 playoffs in NE. Tom Brady had 19 incompletions in that game. Baltimore has a really good defense.
at least Henne could beat NE without the WC and while Brady was playing. Tell me one quality victory Penny had here against a good team (without the WC).
Is it good when he's under pressure and has to redirect his feet or throw using mostly only his arm? How can you assume that he's going to have solid protection or that his line will be healthy? A lot of QBs with better mobility than Mallett have been damaged or destroyed for this very reason.
Sad that you put up the wildcat as the reason Miami beat NE. They were on their way to beating NE before they used the Wild Cat.
Mallett had good protection, great play action to work off of thanks to Knile Davis, and outstanding targets to throw to. IMO Ryan's offense masked a lot of the potential problems we'll see with him. He'll need the same type of situation duplicated in Miami to be successful, and I'm not sure I see that happening, nor would I want to use a 1st rounder to find out. The ground game would need to be successful. The Oline will have to be solid. He'll need a quality receiving #2TE, and he'll need somewhat of a revamped receiving corps that can get over the top of more defenses rather than our possession based group.
No. Mallett's problem with accuracy isn't an inherent one, rather one thats an issue with his mechanics and technique when moving. The fact that he is accurate in the short to intermediate range when stationary tells me that his accuracy on the move is something that can be improved. There are plenty of QBs that come out every year that aren't even accurate when their feet are set. I don't assume that. But the mobility isn't an issue to meeither way. Mallett isn't going to be coached to run around when the pocket breaks. He's going to be coached to step up in the pocket and throw the ball, either to a receiver or out of bounds.
that "technique & mechanics" wont change much because they're due to his long, unathletic legs that limit him physically. If a 5'8 guy cant dunk a basketball, are you going to say it's due to "technique and mechanics"? Can Pennington only throw the ball 31 yards because he never tried hard enough? No mechanics in the world are going to help a person become consistent who's physically limited in doing so. The fact that he's accurate when stationary tells me his long legs & feet are a problem when they're moving. IE: when he's stationary, his weakness isn't highlighted. What if the pocket's collapsing from the inside like the 2nd half of the Lions' game? Will everything be pre-scripted for him so he knows exactly where the pressure is coming from in order to run it like it was practiced or drawn up?
That makes it even worse..... that he can't score points against good teams that don't even have great defenses.
What?!!! Our first 5 TDs were ALL WC plays (including a 23 yarder, 15 yarder, 19 yard Brown to Fasano pass, and 62 yarder by Ronnie) ........ verse a Bradyless NE to boot. It's sad that Ronnie Brown had more TD passes in that game than Pennington.
Kiper, McShay, Walterfootball, Draft Countdown & New NFL Draft, all respected draft info outlets. None of them have Mallett going before we pick at 15. In fact none of them have Mallett going in the first round at all. It's fun to talk QBs and all, but I don't see Mallett as a realistic possibility at 15. And trading up for him? We'd be the laughing stock of the league. Again.
you also have at least 1 long time, retired scout saying he wouldn't take him till the 3rd round IIRC.
Pennington was 17 for 20 wit 226 yards. First touchdown was a 2 yard wild cat play, the 15 yarder was a run up the middle and the 3rd touchdown was 5 yards off the wild cat. Dolphins were up 14-6 with one 2 yard wildcat play. Then on the third touchdown the wild cat got 25 yards out of 77 yards total on the drive. Score 21-6, with two wild cat plays on the goal line and one great run by Ronnie for 15 yards.
They call him "big Ben" because he is about 265lbs not because he is supremely tall. But I cant think of too many QBs at that weight that are successful and it seems to be weight would be a bigger "red flag" than height would be.
Sometimes stats do not tell the truth and this is the case where you are blinded by stats. Miami kicked thier butts, with wildcat or without wildcat, Miami wins that game. Plus it is 4 touchdowns.
